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Old 03-09-05, 03:40 PM   #1
Iride
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soon to be a hoax??

you judge this one,, some guy gets good at doing this, and some people may get ripped off or injured.
Wonder if campy would like to know about this (patent, trademark laws)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...138542785&rd=1

what do you think?
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Old 03-09-05, 03:45 PM   #2
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There is a huge difference in strength between castings and forgings.
I doubt this clown will ever make a successful/functional crankarm.
Enjoy
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Old 03-09-05, 03:54 PM   #3
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I think its hysterical. . .
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Old 03-09-05, 04:37 PM   #4
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Guys like this are too small and too clumsy to cause serious harm. On the other hand, check out what's cooking in China--from motorcycles to prescription drugs, fakes are flooding the market.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...9001_mz001.htm
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Old 03-09-05, 04:50 PM   #5
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Castings from alluminum probably have better properties than forgings from aluminum.
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Old 03-09-05, 07:14 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iride
Wonder if campy would like to know about this (patent, trademark laws)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...138542785&rd=1

what do you think?
It was just an experiment he did to see how it looked. I've dealt with that seller quite a bit, and he's cool. There's no way that thing could ever look like a finished Campagnolo arm, and I'm sure that even if a logo is visible, it's just barely. Nobody's going to invest in maching a casting like that anyway. It's just a $1 paperweight.
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Old 03-09-05, 07:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iride
you judge this one,, some guy gets good at doing this, and some people may get ripped off or injured.
Wonder if campy would like to know about this (patent, trademark laws)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...138542785&rd=1

what do you think?
I recall Campy issuing cease and desist papers against that guy who was casting pretty good knockoffs of campy gum rubber lever hoods on ebay.... I think they'd be pretty pissed off about their name being attached to some rookie attempt at making something that might injure someone when it fails under load....
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Old 03-09-05, 07:19 PM   #8
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I've often wondered why there aren't more reproductions of old Campy stuff. Yeah, there's a lot of NOS still around, but I would think that a complete repro SR group could make some money for the maker. Of course there is the tradermark issue, but lots of people did it in the classic era without the logos. Maybe Campy themselves should try it instead of coming out with "flat bar" Mirage and Veloce groups.
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Old 03-09-05, 07:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rybowen
I've often wondered why there aren't more reproductions of old Campy stuff. Yeah, there's a lot of NOS still around, but I would think that a complete repro SR group could make some money for the maker. Of course there is the tradermark issue, but lots of people did it in the classic era without the logos. Maybe Campy themselves should try it instead of coming out with "flat bar" Mirage and Veloce groups.

Think about it: Repro stuff apears, the value of the authentic stuff goes downhill, the 'rare' mystique of the name Campagnolo instead gets associated with taiwanese knock-off crap...... Its a no brainer for campagnolo.
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Old 03-09-05, 08:46 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stumpjumper
Think about it: Repro stuff apears, the value of the authentic stuff goes downhill, the 'rare' mystique of the name Campagnolo instead gets associated with taiwanese knock-off crap...... Its a no brainer for campagnolo.
I think the real reason they no longer make repro or replacement bits for groups the age of Super & earlier is due to liability. They don't want to see the old groups still being used, only to hear about some 20+ year old crank fatiguing, and someone getting hurt. Better for them to just drop support, and go on with the new.

Now, why we don't have more aftermarket replacement parts that look correct, I don't know. Some nice quality gum brake hoods with a "sunburst", or "comet"... something that would look decent sure would be nice.
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Old 03-10-05, 08:52 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ofofhy
Castings from alluminum probably have better properties than forgings from aluminum.
Let's look that one up:
Strength
When forged and heat treated, the light (SG=2.7) and common aluminium alloys exhibit some mechanical properties comparable with many grades of steel. (SG=7.8). The strength to weight ratio is therefore far superior. For example, the alloy 2014-T6 has a typical UTS of 485MPa, exceeding that of many grades of steel, and all commonly used Al and Mg casting alloys. Unlike some casting processes, forging is always porosity free thus allowing relatively straight forward heat treatment processes that significantly improve selected mechanical characteristics. The lower cost 6061 Al attains typical values of 310MPa, which is also superior to, for example, A356 (or 601 type) Al casting alloy whether that alloy is semi-solid cast, squeeze cast or gravity cast. Further fabrication by welding is also available with 6061 aluminium, opening the opportunities for many other applications.

This strength comparison is only on the published data, and so what is not being reviewed is the clear advantage forged aluminium exhibits over all other wrought product, when the forging has been designed to provide optimum grain structure to suit the application. A combination of hot and cold working the alloy can allow strength considerably in excess of the “typical value”, allowing a single process to greatly assist both static and fatigue test results, and so should be considered when assessing a new application.

Enjoy
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Old 03-10-05, 09:21 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powers2b
Let's look that one up:
Strength
When forged and heat treated, the light (SG=2.7) and common aluminium alloys exhibit some mechanical properties comparable with many grades of steel. (SG=7.8). The strength to weight ratio is therefore far superior. For example, the alloy 2014-T6 has a typical UTS of 485MPa, exceeding that of many grades of steel, and all commonly used Al and Mg casting alloys. Unlike some casting processes, forging is always porosity free thus allowing relatively straight forward heat treatment processes that significantly improve selected mechanical characteristics. The lower cost 6061 Al attains typical values of 310MPa, which is also superior to, for example, A356 (or 601 type) Al casting alloy whether that alloy is semi-solid cast, squeeze cast or gravity cast. Further fabrication by welding is also available with 6061 aluminium, opening the opportunities for many other applications.

This strength comparison is only on the published data, and so what is not being reviewed is the clear advantage forged aluminium exhibits over all other wrought product, when the forging has been designed to provide optimum grain structure to suit the application. A combination of hot and cold working the alloy can allow strength considerably in excess of the “typical value”, allowing a single process to greatly assist both static and fatigue test results, and so should be considered when assessing a new application.

Enjoy
Go back and read my post carefully. Then go back and read the eBay listing carefully.
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Old 03-10-05, 09:40 AM   #13
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I would love to see good repro gum hoods. The best I've found
(for me) is some of the Modolo hoods. I hate the cheap
knockoffs with the heavy seam across them.

Marty
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Old 03-10-05, 09:59 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stumpjumper
Think about it: Repro stuff apears, the value of the authentic stuff goes downhill, the 'rare' mystique of the name Campagnolo instead gets associated with taiwanese knock-off crap...... Its a no brainer for campagnolo.
I don't know about that. With all of the Fender and Gibson repro guitars out there, I haven't really seen a decline in the prices for original models. I think the repro stuff allows people who couldn't afford the look of something old to enjoy, but I don't think it would really have an effect on the value of truly collectable gear.

Maybe Campagnolo should have a company, you could call it Epiphono, that licenses their old designs.
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Old 03-10-05, 10:02 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotek
I would love to see good repro gum hoods. The best I've found
(for me) is some of the Modolo hoods. I hate the cheap
knockoffs with the heavy seam across them.

Marty
I also don't care for the seamed ones... Besides the ugly seam, they just don't feel right. Modolo hoods are cool, but they're getting more expensive now, and may not be around much longer either. Too bad the AME hoods aren't around anymore. While the colors were funky & they weren't gum rubber, at least the fit & quality was good.
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Old 03-10-05, 10:56 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by TheOtherGuy
I also don't care for the seamed ones... Besides the ugly seam, they just don't feel right. Modolo hoods are cool, but they're getting more expensive now, and may not be around much longer either. Too bad the AME hoods aren't around anymore. While the colors were funky & they weren't gum rubber, at least the fit & quality was good.
What about the "brown" Dia Compe's? They're a bit darker than gum, but seem reasonably nice.
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Old 03-10-05, 11:30 AM   #17
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I don't think so.

I think this dude is cool. He is quite clear about what he has done.
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Old 03-10-05, 11:38 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by USAZorro
What about the "brown" Dia Compe's? They're a bit darker than gum, but seem reasonably nice.
Haven't tried those. If you want some decent ones for the old Universal levers though, BC in Holland (soon to be in Santa Barbara) has some nice gum Weinmann hoods that fit 'em. He was blowing 'em out for a great price a couple of years ago... Probably still has a bunch. Another gum hood he had lots of, were the Gipiemme. They fit the Campagnolo levers, and are pretty nice. Not sure how much $ they are now, or how many he's got left.
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Old 03-10-05, 11:56 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ofofhy
I don't know about that. With all of the Fender and Gibson repro guitars out there, I haven't really seen a decline in the prices for original models. I think the repro stuff allows people who couldn't afford the look of something old to enjoy, but I don't think it would really have an effect on the value of truly collectable gear.
I dont know, I think Campy banks alot on its reputation.

What you said kind of highlights my point. Sure, the prices are still high, but I just dont realy associate Fender with high quality, US made guitars anymore. (Mind you I'm not a musician). There are too many japanese fenders and knock-offs floating around. I wonder sometimes if once the baby-boomers are gone, that will be the last generation of people who think of Fender or Harley-davidson, or a number of other companies that way. Of course there will always be a small slice of the population who knows and appreciates an "authentic" high-end Fender, but no comapny wants to hear that their market share is a "small slice of the population".
I hope that wont happen because it would be just a shame.

for what its worth, I dont realy associate most of Porsche's current offerings as "High quality German made products" either, but thats another topic

Quote:
Maybe Campagnolo should have a company, you could call it Epiphono, that licenses their old designs.
that or Epiagnolo
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Old 03-12-05, 11:22 AM   #20
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I heard that at one time Suntour was considering remanufacturing the classic Campy NR/SR stuff, or at least the style of it, but under thier own name. Anybody know what ever happened to that?
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Old 03-12-05, 11:28 AM   #21
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I heard that at one time Suntour was considering remanufacturing the classic Campy NR/SR stuff, or at least the style of it, but under thier own name. Anybody know what ever happened to that?
Sure; it was called Superbe Beautiful stuff made to compete with Campagnolo, but not an exact copy. Some of it arguably better...
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