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Old 12-16-13, 05:39 AM   #1
Noottt
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French 50s frame ?

Hello there everyone. I'm quite new to this forum, but I need some help to identify this old frame i've got.

The frame formerly belonged to my french grandfather which was a 'bicyclette' fanatic. It was later chromed by my father in the 80's, but now ofcourse I can't identify it.
I have made some pictures of some frame numbers and details. Maybe someone here can help me out ?

It was fitted with Simplex Tour de France 50's parts, maybe this helps.

Thanks for helping!

Arnaud
Holland
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Old 12-16-13, 06:15 AM   #2
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Whatever it is, it's gorgeous.
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Old 12-16-13, 06:22 AM   #3
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Whatever it is, it's gorgeous.
thanks!
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Old 12-16-13, 06:51 AM   #4
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Very nice! Do you have pics of the complete bike?
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Old 12-16-13, 07:25 AM   #5
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I do, attached below. First I wanted to restore it completely original. But my resources wouldn't allow me.
I now converted it to a singlespeed and use it as a daily bike for home-work-home commuting.

here is before & after !
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Old 12-16-13, 07:43 AM   #6
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It might be older than the 50's.

Headlugs and fork crown are the best parts to reference. A number of builders created a fork crown like that.
You might wander through the classicrendezvous French reference section and see what you can turn up.
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Old 12-16-13, 07:43 AM   #7
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Way cool. I hope you saved what original parts you had for it. Looks to have a good pedigree. Ride it an enjoy it.
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Old 12-16-13, 07:49 AM   #8
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It's hard to see what's going on with the bike since the lighting is bad in the pics. You might want to try some against a white background. The bike is obviously way cool. I would so something about the rust issues esp. on that seatpost though. Not too many bikes get ridden for three generations in the same family; that makes this very special. Tot ziens.
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Old 12-16-13, 09:37 AM   #9
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That's a beautiful "butchered" Brooks saddle too.
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Old 12-16-13, 09:41 AM   #10
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I'm not 100%, but I think the "AC" on the BB shell could mean that it uses "Accles and Pollack" tubing, a popular in that period and high end alternative to Reynolds, usually you seen the AC with a diamond around it though, so perhaps not... worth looking into.
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Old 12-16-13, 09:56 AM   #11
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I'm not 100%, but I think the "AC" on the BB shell could mean that it uses "Accles and Pollack" tubing, a popular in that period and high end alternative to Reynolds, usually you seen the AC with a diamond around it though, so perhaps not... worth looking into.
thanks a million, but no diamond indeed. how about the G472 on the back, what does that say ?
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Old 12-16-13, 10:02 AM   #12
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You should take good pictures of all lugs & joints, including the fork crown, and then post them to the classic rendezvous mailing list.

Norris Lockley knows these frames best, but he is not the only resource on that list.

The bike IS a beauty, so take care of it and don't make any "permanent" changes to the frame.

OH, and post those new detailed photos here, too!

Fabulous bike!
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Old 12-16-13, 10:17 AM   #13
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No chainstay mounting for derailleur. It looks like you installed a cartridge bb, what was the threading?
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Old 12-16-13, 10:55 AM   #14
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The guy at the bike shop installed a 68/107mm BB. BSA thread. First we thought it might be french or italian thread, but I was wrong there. So i've got a spare velo orange BB around the house

I will make some new detailed photos as soon as I get the time. I'll post them of course.
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Old 12-16-13, 11:59 AM   #15
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The BSA threaded BB shell begs the question, is the tubing French metric (26mm O.D. top tube) or Imperial (25.4mm O.D. top tube)?
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Old 12-16-13, 12:01 PM   #16
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The drivetrain definitely looks early '50s..... They switched to plastic knob (rather than metal) on the front derailleur in the late '50s. Very cool!
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Old 12-16-13, 12:15 PM   #17
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lugs look like they might be modified EKLA (from Belgium but employed by many builders) of possibly Oscar Egg. They certainly look nice and bear a little resemblance to some Carlton patterns, but I don't think that's the brand, here. I'm inclined to think a British frame (possibly Belgian) and certainly high quality....measure those main tubes ODs and let us know...also the seat post diameter.
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Old 12-17-13, 03:11 AM   #18
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Wow, such enthusiastic reactions. I'm really going to make some better photos to clarify. I find it hard to picture my french grandfather buying an 'English' frame though
I will also measure the tubes. Which ones exactly are important ?
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Old 12-17-13, 06:52 AM   #19
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Wow, such enthusiastic reactions. I'm really going to make some better photos to clarify. I find it hard to picture my french grandfather buying an 'English' frame though
I will also measure the tubes. Which ones exactly are important ?
Outside diameter of the top tube, seat tube and seat post.
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Old 12-17-13, 08:32 AM   #20
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Wonderful bike to have and keep in the family. I'd ask family members if anyone has any old photo album with pictures of grampa with his bikes. Scan and post any you find, even if this bike doesn't show up. I'm amazed at how many family pictures are knocking around my parents' and uncle's house.
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Old 12-17-13, 08:39 AM   #21
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Wonderful bike to have and keep in the family. I'd ask family members if anyone has any old photo album with pictures of grampa with his bikes. Scan and post any you find, even if this bike doesn't show up. I'm amazed at how many family pictures are knocking around my parents' and uncle's house.
good suggestion, i'll ask during the christmas days. I was in france last summer and there's a lot of raw gems to be found on garage sales
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Old 12-17-13, 09:08 AM   #22
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This chart shows the outside diameters of the main frame tubes for standard (Imperial) and French (metric) tubing. You can ignore the OS and XL diameters as they were developed long after your grandfather's bike was made.

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Old 12-17-13, 09:12 AM   #23
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This chart shows the outside diameters of the main frame tubes for standard (Imperial) and French (metric) tubing. You can ignore the OS and XL diameters as they were developed long after your grandfather's bike was made.
thank you! I'll check when I get home
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Old 12-17-13, 09:41 AM   #24
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That looks like a very nice bike!
I have seen a headtube like that a few times with the pionted lugs. I had a bike previously that looked very similar to this one but it was an earlier one.
Look behind the seat cluster at the back where it's split and see if you can see three numbers. If you can then Norris Lockley would be very interested to see it.
The thin piece of metal behind the bottom bracket is for the end of a pump to sit in. One strange thing though is the non French threading on the bottom bracket.
But there is a chance it could of been rethreaded when it was chromed.
For the moment i'm going to guess late 1940s.
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Old 12-17-13, 10:37 AM   #25
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thanks a million, but no diamond indeed. how about the G472 on the back, what does that say ?
Not to drive you into the Carlton camp, but if this was a Carlton, that would be a typical place where the serial number was stamped, and it would indicate the 472nd frame made in 1959.
Chances are that others beside Carlton used a similar serial numbering system...

and it may not be a British bike, but he did put a British saddle on it.

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