The most underrated components
#101
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dddd, I have used a Nuovo Record derailleur with a 14-28 freewheel with good results. It depends on luck somewhat.
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#102
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Where things go downhill is when trying 28t with even a 39-52t in front, suddenly it doesn't want to work any more.
That's where a sprung upper "B" pivot comes to the rescue, accommodating the extra chain take-up with ease.
Some say the Super Record mech gives a little more, can someone confirm?
#103
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
It works rather well with a 42/54 and a 13-21 7 speed block on my Cooper... the Cyclone I used when I ran a 13-28 shifted many times better (and worked with a wider range) but the NR is solid and the build quality is rather outstanding.
#104
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
The Prestige is a nice design as it shifts really well and could probably run circles around an NR for a fraction of the price but they are made of fromage... derailleurs have to be reliable.
#105
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Always on my shopping list and searches for a good price...
Regina Synchro Free wheel (you will know it when your hear it)
Original Silkca Frame pump (aluminum)
Di-Compi SVX Brake Set (fits long or short)
Fluted aluminum 24mm seat post (French)
Regina Synchro Free wheel (you will know it when your hear it)
Original Silkca Frame pump (aluminum)
Di-Compi SVX Brake Set (fits long or short)
Fluted aluminum 24mm seat post (French)
#106
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A quick comparison of a NR with a second-generation Super Record: the distance between the derailleur mount and cage pivot is about the same at 75mm more or less; the distance from the cage pivot to the tension roller pivot on the NR is about 35mm while the SR dimension is approximately 45mm; the distance from the cage pivot to the jockey roller is about the same on both at 25mm, and the relationship between these three pivots is a right triangle with the cage pivot at the apex. (All measures are approximate: the SR is on a bike hanging from the wall and I don't feel like lugging it down right now.) Clearly, the SR can wrap more chain. In my very limited experience, the SR does work noticeably better on wider-range freewheels, but it doesn't have much more capacity than the NR. Neither would be my first choice for a touring or MTB set-up, though on road bikes with 42/52 chain rings and 14-28 freewheels they both do fine.
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#107
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It is so sad that Simplex followed the marvelous 61, with the Prestige which essentially killed them.
The Prestige is a nice design as it shifts really well and could probably run circles around an NR for a fraction of the price but they are made of fromage... derailleurs have to be reliable.
The Prestige is a nice design as it shifts really well and could probably run circles around an NR for a fraction of the price but they are made of fromage... derailleurs have to be reliable.
#108
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A quick comparison of a NR with a second-generation Super Record: the distance between the derailleur mount and cage pivot is about the same at 75mm more or less; the distance from the cage pivot to the tension roller pivot on the NR is about 35mm while the SR dimension is approximately 45mm; the distance from the cage pivot to the jockey roller is about the same on both at 25mm, and the relationship between these three pivots is a right triangle with the cage pivot at the apex. (All measures are approximate: the SR is on a bike hanging from the wall and I don't feel like lugging it down right now.) Clearly, the SR can wrap more chain. In my very limited experience, the SR does work noticeably better on wider-range freewheels, but it doesn't have much more capacity than the NR. Neither would be my first choice for a touring or MTB set-up, though on road bikes with 42/52 chain rings and 14-28 freewheels they both do fine.
#109
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It is so sad that Simplex followed the marvelous 61, with the Prestige which essentially killed them.
Killed them? Not hardly. I suspect they sold more Prestige derailleurs than all their previous models combined. Unless you mean the Prestige killed off the earlier, better Simplex models.
You are right about the Prestige being pretty good when new. They wore out rapidly and were prone to breakage. The fronts were worse than the rears, but the rears weren't much good after a short time.
Campagnolo wrung that basic design for all it was capable of at the end.
Yup.
Interesting to contrast the Record family with the Valentino/Velox/Gran Turismo gizmos.
Kind of like Porsche: Record is to 911 as V/V/GT is to 914.
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#110
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I have found that the older Nuovo Records have no trouble handling a nicer vintage 14-28 5speed or comapct 6, like the Reginas, Atoms, and Suntours that where vintage to the DR. But they struggle often don't quit pull off modern 6/7 14-28's. Nothing agaisnt these as DR's they handled the top end freeweels from when they where made rather nicely 12 up to 28 somtimes 30, which was all they where every made to do.
Last edited by zukahn1; 02-17-14 at 06:02 PM.
#111
Junior Member
I haven't seen anyone mention the Suntour Compe V front derailleur. IIRC In the late 70s, nothing even came close for touring bikes.
#112
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Actually front or rear none of the Suntour V series stuff is mentioned in this thread because it was all higly rated when it came out and still is. A V series shift group in excellent condition goes $75-100 on ebay plus shipping.
#113
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Hmm, @Zukahn, I wonder why that is.
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Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#114
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One of the Suntour front mechanisms relied on the spring to do the work pushing the chain over to the big ring. That design was seriously flawed.
#115
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I have never had an issue with the reverse action Suntour stuff other than it doesn't match up work well without matching same era Suntour shifters. One of the best shifting vintage bikes I ever owned a 73/74 Nishki Competition had a VX paired with SL front and Racheting/retro fristion barends which where stock. For when it came out it was as good as it gets.
Last edited by zukahn1; 02-17-14 at 06:36 PM.
#116
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I have never had an issue with the reverse action Suntour stuff other than it doesn't match up work well without matching same era Suntour shifters. One of the best shifting vintage bikes I ever owned a 73/74 Nishki Competition had a VX paired with SL front and Racheting/retro fristion barends which where stock. For when it came out it was as good as it gets.
#117
What??? Only 2 wheels?
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#118
aka Tom Reingold
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I thought the backwards front derailleur was pretty nifty. I didn't keep it long enough to have those problems.
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“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
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Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#119
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
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These 1st-gen bushingless chains had issues with front shifting in quite a few cases, and with chain-skating on certain freewheels as well.
Most new bikes with backwards Suntour front derailers shifted promptly, at least as I recall, and still do, at least with newer chains such as HG70 and similar KMC chains. A couple of my bikes have Compe V's and they seem fine, even as I have to adjust to their direction in life.
#120
Senior Member
Not sure if I'm getting the correct meaning(one reference was to something you definitely would NOT want to grill), but anyway, thanks for the "new word of the day".
#121
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
#122
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
-Quoth Sixty Fiver
Killed them? Not hardly. I suspect they sold more Prestige derailleurs than all their previous models combined. Unless you mean the Prestige killed off the earlier, better Simplex models.
You are right about the Prestige being pretty good when new. They wore out rapidly and were prone to breakage. The fronts were worse than the rears, but the rears weren't much good after a short time.
-Quoth Repechage
Yup.
Interesting to contrast the Record family with the Valentino/Velox/Gran Turismo gizmos.
Kind of like Porsche: Record is to 911 as V/V/GT is to 914.
Killed them? Not hardly. I suspect they sold more Prestige derailleurs than all their previous models combined. Unless you mean the Prestige killed off the earlier, better Simplex models.
You are right about the Prestige being pretty good when new. They wore out rapidly and were prone to breakage. The fronts were worse than the rears, but the rears weren't much good after a short time.
-Quoth Repechage
Yup.
Interesting to contrast the Record family with the Valentino/Velox/Gran Turismo gizmos.
Kind of like Porsche: Record is to 911 as V/V/GT is to 914.
This is where SRAM came from as they are a conglomerate of Huret, Sachs, and other European manafacturers that were failing.
The Prestige gets better when you replace the jockey wheels with Suntours which are nearly indestructible... having the jockey wheel crack / break on a Prestige was never a good thing... and I really like how well they shift which is something Simplex usually got right.
The JUY 543 on my 1957 Peugeot shifts like it is indexed although these were never under-rated... they were some top end kit and Campagnolo's new parallelogram derailleurs did not compare to these for some years.
#123
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Simplex lost a lot of market share while they pursued Delrin derailleurs and by the time they got back to making high quality derailleurs that would not wear out prematurely or fail catastrophically... by then the Japanese were dominating the market and even Campagnolo was having a fit while other European makers were looking to close down or merge.
This is where SRAM came from as they are a conglomerate of Huret, Sachs, and other European manafacturers that were failing.
The Prestige gets better when you replace the jockey wheels with Suntours which are nearly indestructible... having the jockey wheel crack / break on a Prestige was never a good thing... and I really like how well they shift which is something Simplex usually got right.
The JUY 543 on my 1957 Peugeot shifts like it is indexed although these were never under-rated... they were some top end kit and Campagnolo's new parallelogram derailleurs did not compare to these for some years.
This is where SRAM came from as they are a conglomerate of Huret, Sachs, and other European manafacturers that were failing.
The Prestige gets better when you replace the jockey wheels with Suntours which are nearly indestructible... having the jockey wheel crack / break on a Prestige was never a good thing... and I really like how well they shift which is something Simplex usually got right.
The JUY 543 on my 1957 Peugeot shifts like it is indexed although these were never under-rated... they were some top end kit and Campagnolo's new parallelogram derailleurs did not compare to these for some years.
#124
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#125
Chainstay Brake Mafia
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the older "plain" Deore (MT-60/62) is like 99% of XT.. the differences on most components are miniscule. maybe a different finish or steel vs aluminum bolts. I rate Deore around Shimano 105 level.
Practically everything shimano made in the mid-late 80s/early 90s except the super low end stuff all works pretty damn well
Practically everything shimano made in the mid-late 80s/early 90s except the super low end stuff all works pretty damn well