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-   -   Raleigh Team professional cyclocross 1978 Reynolds 753 (http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/934530-raleigh-team-professional-cyclocross-1978-reynolds-753-a.html)

vjp 02-18-14 10:34 AM

:thumb:

You are so lucky! A T.I. Raleigh Team bike, from the year that the rider won a World Championship! I don't think that it was modified after the fact it was probably built as his winter/training bike, same as his road bike but with the canti bosses, keeps his position the same throughout the season.

Have a great day!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woutervanwijk (Post 16505606)
thx vjp. It also crossed my mind but seemd a little bit too good to be true to me.


mikemullett 02-18-14 11:12 AM

Jan LeGrand Ilkeston
 
Jan Le Grand WAS NOT head of building at Raleigh Ilkeston. Gerald O'Donovan was the master and reigned supreme. I was his workshop manager and JLG visited Ilkeston one a year to supervise building of the team frames by the Ilkeston craftsmen.



































j

Woutervanwijk 02-18-14 11:26 AM

Dear Mike,
Many thanks for clarifying that! Internet is not the best source, for this reason its better to get information first hand. I already hoped that especially you in person could give some extra detailed information; therefore I addressed this issue to the yahoo group, since I already had found out that you are one of its members.

Nevertheless does this information that I've got from this bike shop concerning the authenticity of this bike stroke with your memories since you speak from your senior experience?
  • Was this bike build at Ilkeston for Gerrie Knetemann
  • At what time in the season since it is KN 1-78 and Kneteman became world champion at Nurnberg ring in August of 1978.
  • Do you reckon it is a road bike later on modified for cyclocross or was it build from scratch as cyclocross bike?
  • has this particular bike been built by JLG or somebody else?

Many thanks in advance!

Italuminium 02-18-14 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikemullett (Post 16505889)
Jan Le Grand WAS NOT head of building at Raleigh Ilkeston. Gerald O'Donovan was the master and reigned supreme. I was his workshop manager and JLG visited Ilkeston one a year to supervise building of the team frames by the Ilkeston craftsmen.
j

Welcome to the forums, Mike, thanks for your contribution.

And Wouter, great story and glad it developed in such a nice way! A real Kneteman owned bike... that makes it almost a relic.

IthaDan 02-18-14 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by repechage (Post 16505464)
After looking at the Team Raleigh CX bike on speed bicycles.ch I think this bike is a road bike modified for cantilevers. There were a few around locally in the 70's that by looking at some European Cycling newspapers felt that in the Netherlands that a few criterium bikes ran with cantilevers for the lightweight and stopping power. I never saw those images, but the idea appealed to me.

Hmm. I've always be curious about this image of the professor on a [MUCH later] Raleigh on Alp d'Huez with cantis. Wonder if the thinking was similar.

http://www.cyclinginquisition.com/20...ance-1991.html

http://i.imgur.com/SK4wQELl.jpg

Italuminium 02-18-14 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IthaDan (Post 16506123)
Hmm. I've always be curious about this image of the professor on a [MUCH later] Raleigh on Alp d'Huez with cantis. Wonder if the thinking was similar.

http://www.cyclinginquisition.com/20...ance-1991.html

http://i.imgur.com/SK4wQELl.jpg

Wow, cool pic. Note the very, very tight tire clearance. I can't make ascertain if the tire clearance on Wouter's bike is roadie-like too, or if CX tires will fit with ease. Another clue could be BB height.

jyl 02-18-14 01:08 PM

Just so it is settled . . . now definitely don't mess with the paint or decals :-)

Woutervanwijk 02-18-14 04:19 PM

I shall not!

due ruote 02-18-14 05:47 PM

What a cool & special bike! Thanks for posting.

Do you plan to ride it, or hang it up and admire?

Woutervanwijk 02-19-14 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by due ruote (Post 16507126)
What a cool & special bike! Thanks for posting. Do you plan to ride it, or hang it up and admire?

First I will try to return this bike to its former glory with period correct parts, like Campagnolo SR pedals and Mafac Criterium cantilever brakes and brakelevers, Cinelli bars and stem. I guess I will leave the tube shifters and do not replace it with bar end shifters. And off course some cleaning polishing, greasing followed by admiring. This bike will attend some retro (cross) rides and I will try to show up at www.gerrieknetemannclassic.nl

taiAtari 02-19-14 04:58 AM

What a wonderful find! Very special.

Looking at the pictures IŽd have to agree with the idea that it is a roadbike with adaptions for canti brakes. So in my opinion it is not meant or suitable for cyclocross (although dry gravel/offroad riding on a relaxed ride would be feasible).

It doesnŽt seem to have a cx forkcrown front for extra clearance and the chainstays have a bridge which usually is also missing from cx frames for clearance. If you measure the bottom bracket it will probably also be at regular road geometry heighth.

The only thing seperating it from a roadbike of the era seem to be the canti braze ons and the cable stop on the toptube with the drilled seatpost (IŽd expect it to originally have had a drilled stem too, seems strange to drill the seatpost and still use a hanger for the front brake.)

The picture of Fignon using a similar set up on Alpe dŽHuez clinches it for me. If IŽd had to guess IŽd agree that it was probably built like this, a regular roadbike with canti brakes for training/bad weather purposes, or for whatever reason Fignon used this setup. The canti fittings and cable stop are similar to those of the Raleigh CX bike on speedbicycles, which points to it being done at Raleigh and the paint looks original too (glad you wonŽt mess with it!).

Furthermore it simply makes little sense to adapt a roadbike for CX, especially such a high quality example. The clearances are far too tight (have you tried mounting cx tyres?) and it might be too fragile. It would be better to adapt a randonneur/touring frame, but a top rider like De Kneet would just have used a purpose built CX bike.

Still, a great, great find. A superb bike with pedigree.

Elev12k 02-19-14 06:09 AM

A plausible explanation for the atypical serial with KN for KNeet has probably everything to do with there was already a rider GK ( the Gerben Karstens you mention ). Another questionmark: the 1 in the serial if this bike was 'only' for training purposes...

jyl 02-19-14 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woutervanwijk (Post 16508158)
First I will try to return this bike to its former glory with period correct parts, like Campagnolo SR pedals and Mafac Criterium cantilever brakes and brakelevers, Cinelli bars and stem. I guess I will leave the tube shifters and do not replace it with bar end shifters. And off course some cleaning polishing, greasing followed by admiring. This bike will attend some retro (cross) rides and I will try to show up at www.gerrieknetemannclassic.nl

I know nothing about CX but would have thought bar ends would have an advantage in those conditions. Would some Campagnolo bar ends be period correct?

vjp 02-19-14 10:18 AM

I doubt this bike was for racing cyclocross, it would be winter training and/or cobble classics like Paris Roubaix. Look at photos of Paris Roubaix from the 80's and 90's, lots of canti brakes and they are not on "cross" bikes, just specials, which this bike is.

Woutervanwijk 02-19-14 04:32 PM

Yes guys, everybody is crureous to know. Maybe mikemullett can shine his light on this:

Dear Mike,
Many thanks for clarifying that! Internet is not the best source, for this reason its better to get information first hand. I already hoped that especially you in person could give some extra detailed information; therefore I addressed this issue to the yahoo group, since I already had found out that you are one of its members.

Nevertheless does this information that I've got from this bike shop concerning the authenticity of this bike stroke with your memories since you speak from your senior experience?

  • Was this bike build at Ilkeston for Gerrie Knetemann
  • At what time in the season since it is KN 1-78 and Kneteman became world champion at Nurnberg ring in August of 1978.
  • Do you reckon it is a road bike later on modified for cyclocross or was it build from scratch as cyclocross bike?
  • has this particular bike been built by JLG or somebody else?


Many thanks in advance!

mikemullett 02-20-14 11:09 AM

My guess is that this was built at Ilkeston as a training bike for the 1978 season - NOT A SPECIFIC CROSS BIKE. Ilkeston specific Cross Bikes had no chain stay bridge and longer chainstays. Later cross models had all the cables routed along the TT, and the rear mech cables inside the seat stays.
Mike Mullett

jyl 02-20-14 11:56 AM

Mike, I'm really appreciative that you've chimed in on this thread. There are a few of us here who are really interested in the SB bikes. I've been looking for the right one for years.

rjhammett 02-20-14 10:46 PM

As have I. At the top of my bike bucket list is a RTP of 753 Reynolds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyl (Post 16512334)
There are a few of us here who are really interested in the SB bikes. I've been looking for the right one for years.


Woutervanwijk 02-21-14 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikemullett (Post 16512208)
My guess is that this was built at Ilkeston as a training bike for the 1978 season - NOT A SPECIFIC CROSS BIKE. Ilkeston specific Cross Bikes had no chain stay bridge and longer chainstays. Later cross models had all the cables routed along the TT, and the rear mech cables inside the seat stays.
Mike Mullett

Dear Mike,

Really kind of you to give your explanation; it is much appreciated!
Many people are interested in the nature of this bike. They all wanted to know for what kind of purpose this bike had been built by the SBDU Ilkeston department. Therefore it is very kind that especially you, as a former workshop manager of Ilkeston, have taken the effort to clarify on the whereabouts of this bike.
I will do my utmost to return this Ilkeston beauty to its former glory while taking care of its authenticity.
Take care and all the best, many many thanks, Wouter van Wijk

Woutervanwijk 05-02-14 05:04 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Decided to keep the frame as it is. Have done a complete bolts and nuts overhaul. Purchased some parts like a Cinelli old logo crit handlebars, old logo stem, benotto tape, sr pedals with yellow Alfredo bindas. Bike is really tight. When you sit on it feels really special. For the normal rides I have some clincher Mafacs. For showing off I have some blue SSC Mafacs with Clement cross tubulars.
And for the retrorides got my time correct Rainbow jersey as well as a red & black McGregor.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=377789 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=377788

jyl 05-02-14 07:38 AM

Such a cool bike. Maybe post some info/pics to the Yahoo Group?

Woutervanwijk 05-02-14 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyl (Post 16721265)
Such a cool bike. Maybe post some info/pics to the Yahoo Group?

I will take some decent pictures soon

Ed. 05-02-14 04:05 PM

Hi Mike - no reason for you to remember me, but I worked for Raleigh America, and was at Ilkeston sometime in early 1980. I ordered two framesets, one 49.5, SN 4193, the other 58.5, SN 4190. I still remember Gerald's comments when I have him Sheryl's dimensions - "We'll make it as small as we can, then we'll give it a hot wash."

Here's 4190:

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g6...ps59134597.jpg

It was delivered late in 1980 - I was still in hospital with multiple fractures of both legs, resulting in a less than perfect fit, but not the fault of Ilkeston, LOL.

If Gerald is still with us, and you are in contact, pls remember me to him.

Also, IIRC, Ilkeston built two BMX frames for us. One was wrecked in Amsterdam at the show, the other I'm trying to chase down at the moment.

Retro Coureur 02-05-15 08:41 AM

2 Attachment(s)
And here's my '78 Paul Wellens 753 CX. It will be repainted and equipped with the original parts.

jyl 02-05-15 09:30 AM

That's very cool!


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