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  1. #26
    Senior Member osiris419's Avatar
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    Very nice. I just picked up an '80 Voyageur 11.8. It has about 5 coats of spray paint that I'm in the process of stripping off. Not sure what I'm going to do with it yet, I've been tossing around the idea of building it with a 9 speed setup. I upgraded my bike to Ultegra and kept the old group.
    http://www.pedalroom.com/members/osiris419

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saguaro View Post
    Very nice bike! Gotta love the Suntour stuff! You might consider using the Velo Orange braided metallic brake cables.
    http://store.velo-orange.com/index.p...able-kits.html

    Attachment 366438


    1982 Nishiki Cresta

    1991 Tommasini Competizione
    Hi Saguaro!

    I believe I've said it on numerous occasions, your Cresta looks SO classy.

    I'm not sure I'd be happy with the silver VO housing. If it looked more like the old stuff- I might, or if I go with cable like that, I might go for the Porkchop BMX clear housing- just because it resembles the old stuff. I have a section of the Jagwire "titanium" shift housing going to the rear derailleur, but overall, I'd rather stay with the dark grey- to me, that's the color of Dura Ace and 600/Ultegra. The housing that was different from the black or white stuff that everything else got.
    *Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Man Of The Year" Award*

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by dddd View Post
    As for the original tires, I might pack them in a bag, or at my weight just go ahead wear them out at a modest 55-60psi.
    Old tire tread usually wears quickly, sometimes extremely so.
    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    Dave, don't be so quick to toss those tires. There is a good chance that National, aka Panaracer made them.
    I have a set of ancient Specialized tires- the 27 x1 1/4 Touring in the front and 27 x1 3/8 Expedition in the back. I'm sure those tires are unobtainable- I've got about 500 miles on them, they're probably ready to blow at any second- but they're SO nice to ride on.







    I also have a set of 30 year old Panaracer Duals in 700c x 28 hanging in the basement, they're not in bad shape at all, and my Trek 720 came with some really old Trek tires. They're not unique in the way the Specialized tires are. However, neither of them or the Schwinn Passages are as dry or old looking as the Specialized tires...
    *Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Man Of The Year" Award*

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjhabbs View Post
    Loved the Voyageur SP. They took the supersport sp "touring" bike and added much needed touring improvements. I believe it had a longer wheel base. Lower gearing on the Granny and Cantaliever brakes! I love my SP..but would sure like a "real" touring" bicycle.
    That SSSP is way cool. I don't think I ever paid a whole lot of attention to the SS SP, I find it very interesting how the SS evolved into (or moved back to) more of a performance oriented bike. It certainly was very "touring" oriented. It's almost kind of confused- the "aero" stuff with racks... How is that geared? The catalog didn't say aboyt the SSSP- but the VSP for that year was something crazy like 53-46-34.
    *Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Man Of The Year" Award*

  5. #30
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by osiris419 View Post
    Very nice. I just picked up an '80 Voyageur 11.8. It has about 5 coats of spray paint that I'm in the process of stripping off. Not sure what I'm going to do with it yet, I've been tossing around the idea of building it with a 9 speed setup. I upgraded my bike to Ultegra and kept the old group.
    Is it chrome? Chrome bikes dominate.

    Although I'm planning on keeping this bike pretty "vintage," I've actually had thoughts of "upgrading" my 720 to STI levers and maybe 9 speed.

    If I do anything differently with this bike I'd go to Command Shifters- 6x3.
    *Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Man Of The Year" Award*

  6. #31
    Gearhead old's'cool's Avatar
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    "Shimano-free"; intriguing concept. I guess two of my seven C&V bikes are Shimano free. All but two of them are Campy-free. Only one is Suntour free, though there is an ever-present threat of a Suntour freewheel to make it a clean sweep.
    Geoff
    "I think that I think, therefore I think that I am"

  7. #32
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    One of my favorite Schwinn models, would love to find one in a 56cm frame size and make a nice touring bike.

  8. #33
    Senior Member jjhabbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
    That SSSP is way cool. I don't think I ever paid a whole lot of attention to the SS SP, I find it very interesting how the SS evolved into (or moved back to) more of a performance oriented bike. It certainly was very "touring" oriented. It's almost kind of confused- the "aero" stuff with racks... How is that geared? The catalog didn't say aboyt the SSSP- but the VSP for that year was something crazy like 53-46-34.
    I worked in a Schwinn dealer back then and the bike seemed odd. Above this bicycle was the superior then the paramount. It was odd having only 15 speeds. The Aero bottle was a unique touch. The supersport below this model had many small differences and was equally confused.
    From Geneva Illinois

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  9. #34
    Decrepit Member Scooper's Avatar
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    The 1984 dealer catalog has two pages on the Voyageur SP including frame geometry.



    - Stan

  10. #35
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    I'm guessing the HA on the 23" is a misprint ? If not it's odd given the other size specs.

  11. #36
    Decrepit Member Scooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Smedley View Post
    I'm guessing the HA on the 23" is a misprint ? If not it's odd given the other size specs.
    I'm guessing you're right. It's most likely 72°...
    - Stan

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scooper View Post
    The 1984 dealer catalog has two pages on the Voyageur SP including frame geometry.
    Thank you very much for these Stan.


    I find it interesting that the Wolber logo is from a 700C wheel.
    *Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Man Of The Year" Award*

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjhabbs View Post
    I worked in a Schwinn dealer back then and the bike seemed odd. Above this bicycle was the superior then the paramount. It was odd having only 15 speeds. The Aero bottle was a unique touch. The supersport below this model had many small differences and was equally confused.
    I think it's a really cool bike. And it's a really cool looking bike.

    My guess about the 15 speeds is that the designers figured the 5sp FW and the triple provided the range and the steps.
    *Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Man Of The Year" Award*

  14. #39
    Senior Member rekmeyata's Avatar
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    Those bikes were and are extremely underrated bikes, they, along with the Trek 720, were the most capable touring bikes made in America, and some would argue made anywhere for the time period! You have a beautiful bike, I hope you kept the original equipment you took off, and the tires, because if you ever decide to sell it it would be worth more with that factory correct stuff on the bike.

    I have a lower level version of your bike, a 85 Le Tour Luxe, if you get the chance go to the Schwinn catalogue site and compare the 85 Luxe to the 85 Voyagers, it's quite weird. They used the same frame on my bike as they did with the Voyager but put a hi tensile steel fork on instead, then they used the same drivetrain as the Voyager sp on my bike, but on mine the factory, probably due to no stock on the wheels that were spec'd in the catalogue at the time of manufacturing, so I got 40 hole rims with double butted spokes, those wheels are bomb proof! I left mine 100 percent original except the tires and saddle of course and I do weekend tours with it. Schwinn in 85 for some reason upgraded a couple of mid level bikes to come close to the higher end bikes which is apparent if you compare the 85 luxe to the 84 which had a lower end frame and components then the 85, and they did this with Super Sport as well in 85.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
    Those bikes were and are extremely underrated bikes, they, along with the Trek 720, were the most capable touring bikes made in America, and some would argue made anywhere for the time period! You have a beautiful bike, I hope you kept the original equipment you took off, and the tires, because if you ever decide to sell it it would be worth more with that factory correct stuff on the bike.

    I have a lower level version of your bike, a 85 Le Tour Luxe, if you get the chance go to the Schwinn catalogue site and compare the 85 Luxe to the 85 Voyagers, it's quite weird. They used the same frame on my bike as they did with the Voyager but put a hi tensile steel fork on instead, then they used the same drivetrain as the Voyager sp on my bike, but on mine the factory, probably due to no stock on the wheels that were spec'd in the catalogue at the time of manufacturing, so I got 40 hole rims with double butted spokes, those wheels are bomb proof! I left mine 100 percent original except the tires and saddle of course and I do weekend tours with it. Schwinn in 85 for some reason upgraded a couple of mid level bikes to come close to the higher end bikes which is apparent if you compare the 85 luxe to the 84 which had a lower end frame and components then the 85, and they did this with Super Sport as well in 85.
    Isn't the LeTourLuxe what became the Passage the following year?

    Those are definitely cool bikes, and definitely a quality frame with quality components. I'll bet you could make the argument that the hi-ten fork is a plus for a touring bike. Yes, it's added weight- but it's not such a big deal when you're carrying a load- but the smooth ride of the heavier fork would be a plus for that.
    *Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Man Of The Year" Award*

  16. #41
    Ride More seedsbelize's Avatar
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    Nice bike Golden Boy. Might we all be so lucky. I have one of the afore mentioned 84 Letour Luxes and I wish it was an 85. I'm currently having S and S couplers put on it, and cantilever studs as well, to approach the 85 somewhat more closely. But it's definitely a lower quality frame. Rides beautifully though.

  17. #42
    Senior Member rekmeyata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
    Isn't the LeTourLuxe what became the Passage the following year?

    Those are definitely cool bikes, and definitely a quality frame with quality components. I'll bet you could make the argument that the hi-ten fork is a plus for a touring bike. Yes, it's added weight- but it's not such a big deal when you're carrying a load- but the smooth ride of the heavier fork would be a plus for that.
    It's possible the Luxe was rebadged Passage in 86 but that was the last year of that model too. The Passage did use the acclaimed Huret Duo-Par rear derailleur and Huret levers which were second to none, but so far the Suntour Mountech shifts very fast for a wide gear derailleur so I'm pleased with it's performance. On the frame they dropped the stainless steel faced dropout for forged in the Passage, not sure which is best probably forged. I think it was one of those Schwinn things that they get what they get and make a bike, because with Schwinn it wasn't a lot about what was the best but rather which supplier could give them the best deal then they pieced a bike together; the Passage you can see that because instead of using Huret for the front to match the rear they used Suntour. And some things were made just for Schwinn like the Tenax frame, the Tange SE II headset was made just for the Passage and my understanding is the SE II used smaller balls then the Falcon did.

    And I know for a fact that Schwinn would change specs on one or two items well into production and would never mention it in the catalog, my wheels for example are both 40 hole rims with double butted spokes and the specs say 40r/36f with straight gauge spokes. So again Schwinn probably ran out of the 36 hole rim so used a 40 instead, then for whatever reasons went to double butted which I would have thought would cost more and straight gauge would have been bountifully plentiful.

    I can't comment on the fork issue, I have a Mercian with a cromoly fork but it's a Reynolds not a Tange so it's difficult to judge those two, they both have a smooth ride, but I haven't road the Mercian loaded because I got the Schwinn to use as the touring bike so I wouldn't trash the Mercian doing that. Long story about all of that.

  18. #43
    Senior Member rekmeyata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seedsbelize View Post
    Nice bike Golden Boy. Might we all be so lucky. I have one of the afore mentioned 84 Letour Luxes and I wish it was an 85. I'm currently having S and S couplers put on it, and cantilever studs as well, to approach the 85 somewhat more closely. But it's definitely a lower quality frame. Rides beautifully though.
    I got the 85 by pure luck, I didn't even know much about the differences in the Luxe's until AFTER I bought it. I got it used with about 250 miles on it from a guy who was going to ride it across country in 1985 when he bought the bike. He had started training for the ride when he fell off a ladder at home and injured his back so he couldn't ride the bike without severe pain, so he put layers of blankets over it in the garage. In 2012 he decides to try to ride it again so takes the bike to a shop and they go over it and he rides it but his back acts up again so he puts it on Craigslist for $100 where I found it for sale. I go to look at it and it's like new condition so I buy it without even negotiating the price because it was pristine and it was worth it to me. I later find out on the internet the differences between the Luxe's of the 83 and 84 and the similarities of the Voyager models of that 85 year I got.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
    It's possible the Luxe was rebadged Passage in 86 but that was the last year of that model too. The Passage did use the acclaimed Huret Duo-Par rear derailleur and Huret levers which were second to none, but so far the Suntour Mountech shifts very fast for a wide gear derailleur so I'm pleased with it's performance. On the frame they dropped the stainless steel faced dropout for forged in the Passage, not sure which is best probably forged. I think it was one of those Schwinn things that they get what they get and make a bike, because with Schwinn it wasn't a lot about what was the best but rather which supplier could give them the best deal then they pieced a bike together; the Passage you can see that because instead of using Huret for the front to match the rear they used Suntour. And some things were made just for Schwinn like the Tenax frame, the Tange SE II headset was made just for the Passage and my understanding is the SE II used smaller balls then the Falcon did.

    And I know for a fact that Schwinn would change specs on one or two items well into production and would never mention it in the catalog, my wheels for example are both 40 hole rims with double butted spokes and the specs say 40r/36f with straight gauge spokes. So again Schwinn probably ran out of the 36 hole rim so used a 40 instead, then for whatever reasons went to double butted which I would have thought would cost more and straight gauge would have been bountifully plentiful.
    I don't believe Schwinn specced these bikes out of bargain components. I think these parts were carefully chosen. Just because a whole group wasn't used doesn't mean that it's haphazardly put together. The 86 Passage is similarly specced to the 1985 Trek 620. Same saddle, RD and both have Maillard hubs. The 620 also has the Sachs/Huret FD- which is a bit of a tank compared to the beefy looking, yet lightweight Mountech. I'd rather have the Suntour unit, but I keep the Sachs/Huret because it is kind of cool and that tiny weight penalty doesn't bother me. Again, the 720 was specced with a Sachs/Huret RD, Simplex FD, Suntour Shifters, GranCompe levers and Shimano brakes. I think these top of the line touring bikes were specced to provide the best components for their price point.
    *Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Man Of The Year" Award*

  20. #45
    Casual Student of C&V J.Oxley's Avatar
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    Beautiful bike. Well done!
    That's enough out of you, legs. Shut up and pedal.

  21. #46
    Senior Member rekmeyata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
    I don't believe Schwinn specced these bikes out of bargain components. I think these parts were carefully chosen. Just because a whole group wasn't used doesn't mean that it's haphazardly put together. The 86 Passage is similarly specced to the 1985 Trek 620. Same saddle, RD and both have Maillard hubs. The 620 also has the Sachs/Huret FD- which is a bit of a tank compared to the beefy looking, yet lightweight Mountech. I'd rather have the Suntour unit, but I keep the Sachs/Huret because it is kind of cool and that tiny weight penalty doesn't bother me. Again, the 720 was specced with a Sachs/Huret RD, Simplex FD, Suntour Shifters, GranCompe levers and Shimano brakes. I think these top of the line touring bikes were specced to provide the best components for their price point.
    I'm not saying you're wrong, in fact I would prefer if you're right! But I do know that with Schwinn in particular that a lot of their bikes, if not all, were spec'd on who gave them the best price per unit. This is why the Luxe and the Passage (and other bikes) used the Tenax tubeset because it was Columbus SP or SL tubesets that got used by the Voyagers but had blemishes that Columbus felt they didn't want their name on it so gave Schwinn a price break, and you'll only find Tenax used on Schwinns. As far as Trek is concerned why wouldn't they do the same thing to save money?

    Here is a bit of interesting history about the Suntour and Huret thing; read: http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/...ar_page_2.html

    The only issue I have with that report is that I also own a Superbe Tech rear derailleur that supposedly was problem plagued in 1984 and put it on my racing bike because according to the LBS rep it could shift climbing mountain grades without having to take pressure off the pedals, and it did with a bang! It weighed more then the Superbe Pro but since I was racing mountains of California the ability to shift fast climbing was more important to me then the weight. I then went back and bought a backup Superbe Tech in case the one I was using would ever break (and Suntour was going out of business), and according to that report it would, except 160,000 miles later it never broke and still works fine! Which means I still have a new one I never used. Supposedly the Mountech will have the same problem, but for some reason I'm not concerned about it due to my experiences with the Tech.

  22. #47
    Senior Member osiris419's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
    Is it chrome? Chrome bikes dominate.
    Not full chrome, the fork and rear triangle are chromed.
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  23. #48
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    Nice bike! You must have been psyched to find one in that size, they're pretty rare. Usually I see vintage touring bikes that are 19" or 23".

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
    I'm not saying you're wrong, in fact I would prefer if you're right! But I do know that with Schwinn in particular that a lot of their bikes, if not all, were spec'd on who gave them the best price per unit. This is why the Luxe and the Passage (and other bikes) used the Tenax tubeset because it was Columbus SP or SL tubesets that got used by the Voyagers but had blemishes that Columbus felt they didn't want their name on it so gave Schwinn a price break, and you'll only find Tenax used on Schwinns. As far as Trek is concerned why wouldn't they do the same thing to save money?

    Here is a bit of interesting history about the Suntour and Huret thing; read: http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/...ar_page_2.html

    The only issue I have with that report is that I also own a Superbe Tech rear derailleur that supposedly was problem plagued in 1984 and put it on my racing bike because according to the LBS rep it could shift climbing mountain grades without having to take pressure off the pedals, and it did with a bang! It weighed more then the Superbe Pro but since I was racing mountains of California the ability to shift fast climbing was more important to me then the weight. I then went back and bought a backup Superbe Tech in case the one I was using would ever break (and Suntour was going out of business), and according to that report it would, except 160,000 miles later it never broke and still works fine! Which means I still have a new one I never used. Supposedly the Mountech will have the same problem, but for some reason I'm not concerned about it due to my experiences with the Tech.

    I think you're misinterpreting information.

    We're talking about bikes that are well above entry level models. While there's consideration for price point, at this price point, the decisions were based on the best unit available. Keep in mind, it would probably make more sense from a financial as well as a supply point of view to order an entire group from a supplier.

    In terms of the Passage, as referenced in the article you linked, the DuoPar was a prime piece of equipment. It was considered THE touring RD to have. I believe Suntour's LeTech was designed to be their follow up to their answer to the DuoPar, the Mountech. It's a well built, nice looking unit. And it feels more "quality" than the DuoPar. I haven't checked the stats, but it looks like it'll take a 34 with ease, and that 3rd pivot probably opens that up to 38T. But as referenced in the article- the 3 pivot design was expensive, fragile and redundant.

    Even at this point in time, companies were speccing their bikes with groups. It makes sense to do so. I like to have matching things. These groups were chosen with price in mind, but also availability, and performance. After SIS, my guess is Suntour was offering HUGE price drops- but they kept losing market share- because SIS worked. Sometimes those components are chosen out of regard to the supplier company. In regards to top of the line bikes, such as the VSP or the 720- I believe that was specced to the very best components, regardless of manufacturer. However, with the 720, I believe the Simplex Super LJ FD was chosen to "throw a bone" to Simplex, much in the same way several companies did for Suntour towards their end.

    Regarding Tenax... If Columbus didn't want their name on Tenax- they shouldn't have made stickers that proudly displayed the Columbus name and dove logo with "Tenax" underneath. According to Stan's email exchange with Richard Schwinn, it may have been a lower grade of Columbus tubing, some of it seems to have been seamed, some not seamed and the seat tube thickness seems to have changed. Tenax was available for at least 5 years, across several upper and mid-level model lines, which is an awful long time and an awful lot of tubing to use up a batch of factory second material.

    Regarding the Superbe Tech and the Mountech... the problems with those derailleurs were that they couldn't be maintained. Knowing that you've kept bikes in excess of 30 years tells me that you maintain your bicycles. It also tells me you're not too rough on your equipment- you take care of it and you're responsible about it. My guess is that the majority of your riding is done on pavement. (I mean nothing bad about that assumption) The Mountech and Superbe Tech would get dirt in there when ridden off road and it would destroy the unit because it couldn't be cleaned out. You probably put your miles on in a more controlled environment (again, I mean nothing bad by that assumption- I am that way), so there's less opportunity for dirt and mud to enter the works of your derailleur.
    *Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Man Of The Year" Award*

  25. #50
    Senior Member rekmeyata's Avatar
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    ^^ Nothing bad is taken by what you said because you're right, I do take care of my equipment and I don't ride that stuff off road, I have a mountain bike for that sort of activity but that bike uses Shimano XT.

    I also prefer matching components over what I call piece meal components, but Trek, at least in some years and some models, in 84 when I bought my 660 as a frame and fork only did use matching components, the 660 came with Campy New Record with Modolo brakes according the Trek, but the 760 came with all Superbe Pro stuff. What was weird was when I got the Trek 660 and equipped it with Superbe like the 760 it was cheaper than buying the complete 660 with the Campy stuff!

    By the way I have the Superbe Tech S and not the Le Tech; S stood for short cage, they had a medium and long cage versions of the Tech for road and off road use, I would highly doubt if any of the S versions saw off road use, even the L version, which was the medium cage (an odd letter for that!) I would suspect didn't see much if any off road use. The Tech GTL, which was the long cage, could handle 40 teeth but mine can only handle 28, the Tech L handled 34.

    On another thread here there was a discussion about Tenax so without repeating all that I said and few others about it please go here starting at post 121, mine, see: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ad-bikes/page5 Read the followups because one poster pulled a website showing that Tenax was different then SL and SP, but we concluded, at least for the time being, that Tenax was SL and SP.

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