Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-08-14, 04:23 PM   #1
likebike23 
Rides Majestic
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Westfield, MA
Bikes: 1983 Univega Gran Turismo, 1970 Schwinn Super Sport, 2001 Univega Modo Vincere, Self-Built Nashbar Touring, 1974 Peugeot U08, 1974 Atala Grand Prix, 1986 Ross Mt. Hood, 80's Maruishi MT-18
Posts: 1,358
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Calling all cottered crank experts-French content

I'm thinking of throwing my hat into the $100 clunker challenge and have a question about cottered cranks. I picked up a beat up Gitane mixte as a donor bike for $25. I'm planning to transfer as many parts as I can from it to a Windsor Carrera frame including the cottered cranks from the Gitane. The issue is the Gitane's bottom bracket is French and the Windsor's is British. I installed some British cups in the Windsor and when I installed the French spindle, the adjustable cup doesn't thread in as much as I'd like when the bearings are adjusted. I read about French BB cups being thinner.

First: Does it really matter if the adjustable cup isn't screwed in as much as it would be with a "normal" spindle? Will it harm anything to run it like that?

Second: Can I hunt down a british cottered spindle and use that instead of the French spindle? Are the drillings in the crank for the spindle/cotter pins the same for British and French cranks?

Thanks, Mike

Last edited by likebike23; 03-08-14 at 04:31 PM.
likebike23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-14, 04:46 PM   #2
sailorbenjamin 
26 tpi nut.
 
sailorbenjamin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Rhode Island (an obscure suburb of Connecticut)
Bikes: one of each
Posts: 5,698
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If I remember correctly, French and Japanese spindles are 15mm and English spindles are 9/16" or something like that. I think the cotters are different, too.
The longer French spindles are nice for those of us with 70mm Raleigh BB shells.
If the adjustable cup only sticks out a couple of MM then don't sweat it, just ride.
Maybe a Japanese spindle is what you want.
It's been years since I actually knew this stuff so it might be best to wait for the next guy to respond.
__________________
I have spoken.
sailorbenjamin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-14, 04:52 PM   #3
sailorbenjamin 
26 tpi nut.
 
sailorbenjamin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Rhode Island (an obscure suburb of Connecticut)
Bikes: one of each
Posts: 5,698
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sheldon also says that the pedals are different;
http://sheldonbrown.com/velos.html
__________________
I have spoken.
sailorbenjamin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-14, 05:57 PM   #4
likebike23 
Rides Majestic
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Westfield, MA
Bikes: 1983 Univega Gran Turismo, 1970 Schwinn Super Sport, 2001 Univega Modo Vincere, Self-Built Nashbar Touring, 1974 Peugeot U08, 1974 Atala Grand Prix, 1986 Ross Mt. Hood, 80's Maruishi MT-18
Posts: 1,358
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorbenjamin View Post
If I remember correctly, French and Japanese spindles are 15mm and English spindles are 9/16" or something like that. I think the cotters are different, too.
Maybe a Japanese spindle is what you want.
Thanks. I found this on Ebay:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-Chr...-/140607907873. I'll measure my spindle to see if it'll work.
The seller says that he's not sure what cotters they use and that he believes it's more a function of the cranks. If the Japanese cottered cranks use a 9.4mm cotter pin, I would assume the depth of the slot on the spindle would be deeper than a French spindle which uses 9.0mm cotter pins. I guess for ~$7, I could buy it and see if it'll work.

What I'm trying to do is not very common. There's lots of info out there for converting French cottered bottom brackets to square taper but no info on using French cottered cranks on a standard 68mm, British threaded frame.
likebike23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-14, 06:26 PM   #5
sailorbenjamin 
26 tpi nut.
 
sailorbenjamin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Rhode Island (an obscure suburb of Connecticut)
Bikes: one of each
Posts: 5,698
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think I was trying to put a French stronglight crank on a 70mm Raleigh BB shell once. It's all gotten a bit muddled in my head. There used to be a great set of tables on the web for this but it's gone now. I really wish I'd saved that data somewhere. It was from an 80s edition of Barnett's or something like that.
Seems to me that the flats on the spindle for the cotters are plenty wide to do whatever you want with them, so long as you file the tapers right. So yes, I'd agree that it's more about the crank than the spindle.
__________________
I have spoken.
sailorbenjamin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-14, 06:55 PM   #6
rhm
multimodal commuter
 
rhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
Posts: 15,818
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 107 Post(s)
If you can give me some dimensions, I may have the spindle you seek. I need to know the overall length and that divided into three segments: right end to the cusp after the right cone, cusp to cusp, and left cusp to left end. That last dimension may not matter much. I have a lot of spindles, yours for not much more than the cost of shipping.
__________________
New leather for old saddles.
rhm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-14, 07:41 PM   #7
likebike23 
Rides Majestic
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Westfield, MA
Bikes: 1983 Univega Gran Turismo, 1970 Schwinn Super Sport, 2001 Univega Modo Vincere, Self-Built Nashbar Touring, 1974 Peugeot U08, 1974 Atala Grand Prix, 1986 Ross Mt. Hood, 80's Maruishi MT-18
Posts: 1,358
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhm View Post
If you can give me some dimensions, I may have the spindle you seek. I need to know the overall length and that divided into three segments: right end to the cusp after the right cone, cusp to cusp, and left cusp to left end. That last dimension may not matter much. I have a lot of spindles, yours for not much more than the cost of shipping.
That would be great. I need a 16mm diameter spindle. Right(drive side):46mm, Center:50mm, Left:Not critical (but at least 40mm). Total length:~136-137mm a bit longer is ok. If you have something that might work can you PM me? Thanks again, Mike.
likebike23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-14, 10:20 PM   #8
likebike23 
Rides Majestic
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Westfield, MA
Bikes: 1983 Univega Gran Turismo, 1970 Schwinn Super Sport, 2001 Univega Modo Vincere, Self-Built Nashbar Touring, 1974 Peugeot U08, 1974 Atala Grand Prix, 1986 Ross Mt. Hood, 80's Maruishi MT-18
Posts: 1,358
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Just posting here with a workable solution. It was suggested that I could use a spacer behind the fixed BB cup by rhm. I had a spacer from an old cassette hanging around, installed it, and it looks like it's going to be a winner. Thanks again for your help guys.
likebike23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-14, 10:34 PM   #9
auchencrow 
Senior Member
 
auchencrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Detroit
Bikes:
Posts: 10,330
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by likebike23 View Post
......... Are the drillings in the crank for the spindle/cotter pins the same for British and French cranks?

Thanks, Mike
British cotters are 9.5mm diameter, and French typically 9.0.
__________________
- Auchen
auchencrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-14, 11:26 PM   #10
zukahn1 
Senior Member
 
zukahn1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Fairplay Co
Bikes: Current 79 Nishiki Royal, Jeunet 620, 59 Crown Royal, notable previous bikes P.K. Ripper loop tail, Kawahara Laser Lite, Paramount Track full chrome, Raliegh Internatioanl, Motobecan Super Mirage.
Posts: 5,809
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
I will be the first to say why on tranferring low end French cottered cranks to anything other than a reycle bin? The Windsor should be ISO you can pick up a decent used crankset and BB for under $30.
zukahn1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-14, 11:48 PM   #11
Six jours
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 6,401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zukahn1 View Post
I will be the first to say why on tranferring low end French cottered cranks to anything other than a reycle bin? The Windsor should be ISO you can pick up a decent used crankset and BB for under $30.
Because, when used with the right axles and pins, cottered cranks work fine and often look quite a bit better than low-end aluminum stuff. The idea that cottered cranks are worthless stems entirely from poor installation.
Six jours is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-14, 07:23 AM   #12
likebike23 
Rides Majestic
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Westfield, MA
Bikes: 1983 Univega Gran Turismo, 1970 Schwinn Super Sport, 2001 Univega Modo Vincere, Self-Built Nashbar Touring, 1974 Peugeot U08, 1974 Atala Grand Prix, 1986 Ross Mt. Hood, 80's Maruishi MT-18
Posts: 1,358
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zukahn1 View Post
I will be the first to say why on tranferring low end French cottered cranks to anything other than a reycle bin? The Windsor should be ISO you can pick up a decent used crankset and BB for under $30.
Sometimes it's not about ditching "low end" parts, upgrading, losing weight, or Campy. The bike is being built for a $100 C&V clunker challenge. Not only that, but I'm looking to learn a bit about French bicycle mechanics, and there is no better way than to make your mistakes on "low end" stuff. In the end, I'll have a French inspired bike that I built myself, that I learned something while building, and that I can take pride in.

Edit: In addition to the above, I'm making good use of a bike that would otherwise be destined to the trash heap. Let's face it, a French mixte in need of new derailleurs, cables, full bearing service, wheel tensioning/truing, tires/tubes, rust removal/polishing, and extensive paint touch up is not an economically or technically feasible project for 99.9% of people.

Last edited by likebike23; 03-09-14 at 07:47 AM.
likebike23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-14, 07:58 AM   #13
iab 
Senior Member
 
iab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Bikes:
Posts: 8,785
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zukahn1 View Post
I will be the first to say why on tranferring low end French cottered cranks to anything other than a reycle bin? The Windsor should be ISO you can pick up a decent used crankset and BB for under $30.
I put a French crank on an Olmo because it looked cool. And it was what I had on hand.

iab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-14, 08:12 AM   #14
auchencrow 
Senior Member
 
auchencrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Detroit
Bikes:
Posts: 10,330
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by iab View Post
I put a French crank on an Olmo because it looked cool. ...
You won't get an argument from me!
__________________
- Auchen
auchencrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-14, 09:04 AM   #15
likebike23 
Rides Majestic
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Westfield, MA
Bikes: 1983 Univega Gran Turismo, 1970 Schwinn Super Sport, 2001 Univega Modo Vincere, Self-Built Nashbar Touring, 1974 Peugeot U08, 1974 Atala Grand Prix, 1986 Ross Mt. Hood, 80's Maruishi MT-18
Posts: 1,358
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by iab View Post
I put a French crank on an Olmo because it looked cool. And it was what I had on hand.j

Thats as good a reason as any.
likebike23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-14, 06:57 PM   #16
Salubrious
Senior Member
 
Salubrious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Bikes:
Posts: 945
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by iab View Post
I put a French crank on an Olmo because it looked cool. And it was what I had on hand.
Plus its clearly an awesome crank!
Salubrious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-14, 08:37 PM   #17
Six jours
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 6,401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Meh. Clearly he should have thrown it away and replaced it something modern and aluminum. You know, like this:

Attached Images
File Type: jpg $(KGrHqZ,!pgFCp)nq0)MBQsTO4s0Dw~~60_57.jpg (98.3 KB, 15 views)
Six jours is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:00 AM.