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Old 03-10-14, 09:05 PM   #1
minority
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Anyone ID this Frame?

I'm just about to strip and restore this one and would love to know what it is.
Came with a real mishmash of parts including Mavic rims, 600 RD, Galli brakes.
Over the BB cable routing, virtually no braze ons so I'm thinking maybe 70s as the age?

PS. I know its not a Colnago!














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Old 03-10-14, 09:10 PM   #2
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That RD cable stop seems like a clue. I don't recognize it though.

What's the BB threading?
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Old 03-10-14, 09:15 PM   #3
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That RD cable stop seems like a clue. I don't recognize it though.

What's the BB threading?
Not sure on the BB, I'll check when I get a chance.
Need to check for ser. no. as well.
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Old 03-10-14, 11:52 PM   #4
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no name for the moment, but with those shorty dropouts (and these are the style that sometimes are engraved "GPM" but often "Columbus" or yes, even "Colnago") I think it's a late '70s, more likely an early '80s, that just kept some of the older frame details (and it may have had TT cables guides that got "drewed, ground off, when this was repainted and given the false decals).
I'm afraid that chainstay cable stop-with-ring doesn't tell me anything by way of a builder...since you're in Perth it could be Aussie, European or Japanese (or all of the above!) but seems like many of these oddballs in OZ turn out to be domestically made.
What's with those forkblades: are they round? Photo kind of makes that impression...
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Old 03-11-14, 11:21 PM   #5
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this is a fun puzzle minority. head and shell look so nice yet seat stay vent holes were not closed. work where stays meet dropouts and presence of vent holes mark it as a production bike.

bottom bracket fittings look economy japanese.

seat binder looks to be a gripfast.

let's hope we hear from T-Mar on this...
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Old 03-12-14, 01:46 AM   #6
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Well a bit more info, BB seams to be english threaded (left hand threaded fixed cup), seatpost that was in there was 26.8 and seemed a nice fit. The only thing stamped on the BB was "110" so maybe not mass production (it was also stamped on the steerer tube, so unless both parts were stamped later in life it would seem the forks go with the frame). Rear dropouts are Columbus and fork blades aren't round.
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Old 03-12-14, 10:59 AM   #7
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well, probably not Japanese even with the BSC/ISO threading in the BB. Given the Columbus-branded dropouts (and some of that European gear on it that may be original) I'd go with "Australian", though it could be an import from the UK or Europe. Very slim chance of a Panasonic-built frame using Tenax tubing, but the chances are low.
28.6 post says it might be Aelle if it's Columbus tubing, might be plain-gauge 531 if Reynolds.
Any sign of "rifling" inside the steerer butt end? I'd be surprised if so, but that would point to "Columbus" tubing.
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Old 03-12-14, 11:54 AM   #8
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How do you know for certain that it isn't a Colnago?

You know a product isn't authentic when the guitar says Martian or Gisbon, when the tape cassette says Maxwell, when the car says Chevie, when the bike says Puegeot or Colango, when the tire says Vitorria, when the bottle says Jim Bean, when the can says Bugweiser.

Or Campangolo.

Okay, so it has an English BB?
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Old 03-12-14, 01:49 PM   #9
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well, probably not Japanese even with the BSC/ISO threading in the BB. Given the Columbus-branded dropouts (and some of that European gear on it that may be original) I'd go with "Australian", though it could be an import from the UK or Europe.
I wouldn't rule out Japanese or Taiwanese. In the late 80s, many dropouts were being manufactured in Taiwan, including ones marked "Campagnolo," so I wouldn't rule out Taiwanese "Columbus" dropouts. The cable guides in particular look Asian, and the English thread shell would be consistent with this.
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Old 03-12-14, 05:13 PM   #10
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the mystery deepens...
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Old 03-12-14, 05:34 PM   #11
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What do mean strip and restore? the paint looks nice to me but could use a good waxing (and if your the type a little light polishing compound)

I bet a waxing and overhaul will do wonders for that old gal


OH welcome to the "bike with no name" club



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Old 03-12-14, 10:18 PM   #12
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OH welcome to the "bike with no name" club
I've been a member of that club for a while

First bike I "did up" after getting back into the scene was a member:



And this is a "current" project that also qualifies for membership

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Old 03-12-14, 11:36 PM   #13
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Any sign of "rifling" inside the steerer butt end? I'd be surprised if so, but that would point to "Columbus" tubing.
Inside of steerer:

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Old 03-13-14, 12:21 AM   #14
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Well, that's unexpected^
It's "rifled" all right, but not the smaller 5 curved ridges you'd see in a Columbus steerer. You have 6 fatter and straight ridges. so it's a Japanese steerer (I can't remember if this is typical Tange or Ishiwata, but one of those) and therefore must be a JP fork and since the serial numbers match...probably JP tubing for the frame. Doesn't automatically mean that it was built in Japan, could still be made in OZ from a JP tubeset.
Curious indeed...
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Old 03-13-14, 05:29 PM   #15
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Following up: getting weirder...Ishiwata steerers used wider straight ridges (like these) but the one catalog I have access to shows 5 of them, not 6. Tange steerers had 6 ridges and they were fatter than Columbus but they spiraled, like Columbus.
I can't find any examples (yet) of 6 straight ridges in the steerer, but I have a nagging thought that it must be Japanese. I think John D Thompson must know...
Was anything ELSE stamped on the steerer besides the serial number? Most Tange forks were stamped as such...
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Old 03-13-14, 06:44 PM   #16
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Faux-nago. Done.
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Old 03-13-14, 09:49 PM   #17
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Following up: getting weirder...Ishiwata steerers used wider straight ridges (like these) but the one catalog I have access to shows 5 of them, not 6. Tange steerers had 6 ridges and they were fatter than Columbus but they spiraled, like Columbus.
I can't find any examples (yet) of 6 straight ridges in the steerer, but I have a nagging thought that it must be Japanese. I think John D Thompson must know...
Was anything ELSE stamped on the steerer besides the serial number? Most Tange forks were stamped as such...
Optical illusion on the pic I'm afraid, they are spiraled, so looks like it might be Tange. (although nothing else stamped on the steerer, I know the Tange identification you're talking about, I've seen it on other forks).
I think from memory that some Miyatas built with Tange tube sets were 26.8 seatpost as well, so that would tie in with it being a Tange tubeset.
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Old 03-13-14, 10:45 PM   #18
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Old 03-14-14, 09:19 AM   #19
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Optical illusion on the pic I'm afraid, they are spiraled, so looks like it might be Tange. (although nothing else stamped on the steerer, I know the Tange identification you're talking about, I've seen it on other forks).
I think from memory that some Miyatas built with Tange tube sets were 26.8 seatpost as well, so that would tie in with it being a Tange tubeset.
Not to be too much a nit-picker (but watch me, now): the word was that Miyata drew their own tubing and were unique in the Japanese industry for doing that. For some time people thought Fuji drew their own tubing, too, cause they used proprietary names for theirs, but I believe it was T-Mar himself that pointed out that Fuji got theirs from Ishiwata/Tange and just re-branded.
The 26.8 seatpost size was very common for a lot of Japanese seat tubes that used a 28.6 OD with a 0.9 wall thickness, both Tange and Ishiwata had tubesets of that spec, but with Tange it was more common...shows up even more in steel Mtn. bikes.

Another factoid is that Tange was a huge supplier of finished forks to hundreds of brands that decided it was better to buy them from Tange rather than build a fork themselves, not to mention all those they sold to average folks as after-market replacements.

Al this to say: I agree that your frame is very likely made from Tange tubing, very long-winded.
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Old 03-14-14, 09:50 AM   #20
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Optical illusion on the pic I'm afraid, they are spiraled, so looks like it might be Tange. (although nothing else stamped on the steerer, I know the Tange identification you're talking about, I've seen it on other forks).
Ishiwata has five straight ridges; Tange has six helical ridges, Columbus has five helical ridges. The Tange stamp on the steer tube is only found on forks brazed by Tange, and does not necessarily mean Tange tubing. Tange steer tubes are unmarked as they come from the factory.

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Old 03-15-14, 01:08 AM   #21
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Ishiwata has five straight ridges; Tange has six helical ridges, Columbus has five helical ridges. The Tange stamp on the steer tube is only found on forks brazed by Tange, and does not necessarily mean Tange tubing. Tange steer tubes are unmarked as they come from the factory.
Well that makes sense. I weighed the bare frame & fork today, frame 1990g, fork 700g. So it looks like I've got a quite nice frame built out of a reasonable Tange tubeset by a low volume frame builder either in Japan or maybe Australia.
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Old 03-16-14, 07:56 AM   #22
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Plan is to paint it red with maybe gold on the head tube & seat tube, a set of Mavic MA2 rims and a Shimano 600 arabesque groupset.
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