look171

I think I caught something interesting. 6 speed freewheel. Did it exist back then? I remember them when they first come on the market when I first starting racing. I had to have one. This was early -mid 80s.

callig

I bought a bike in 1979 with a Suntour Winner 6 speed freewheel but I doubt they were on 1974 bikes

Chombi

Not sure, but the bike could have fallen into the transition period when 120mm/5 speeds were being repalced by 126mm/6 speeds.....
My 1972 race bike with an NR drivetrain is a 5 speed with 120mm rear spacing....

Drillium Dude 

I note that the primary pic also shows what appear to be Mavic gold rims while the other pics show a different wheelset (with the aforementioned incorrect skewers and a six-speed block). The bottle cage (TA?) has also been removed. The stem has a recessed binder bolt - available in 1974? I'd like to check out the other pics and see if anything else has been "substituted".

So the question: what exactly does the seller mean by "Eddy's bike"? Frameset with perhaps a part or two? We already know the wheelset is suspect; what else?

The whole "trust me, I have extensive info and if I'm charging $25,000 you better believe it's real" approach really tests my patience; after all, dude, you're just another guy on the internet

No providence, no big bucks. That much should be obvious to a seller in this day and age - or maybe not.

DD

Savagewolf

Reads as nothing more than a scam to me. If you have something like this, and have proof, you include it with the posting to drive more interest and bidding to your legitimate item.

look171

So were my bikes from the early 80s. Not until the middle to late 80s where the frames were opened up a little for the popular and much needed 6 spd freewheels. During Merck's heyday, I would have to say no. You think they had 6 spd in 1976?

Chombi

Well,....at least for Peugeots, I remember that by 1983, pretty much all their sport/touring and race bikes had six speed freewheels and IIRC, they all had the "12 Vitesses" decal on their drive side chainstays. Mid 80's is when 7 speeds/126mm was quickly becoming common.
Actually, in the later 80's, 8 speeds were starting to pop up and rear spacing was getting wider to 130mm....
Now, how much earlier did the pros get the latest drivetrain technology which they always do, is really the question, but I suspect the lag got shorter as the years went by....

Munny

Twice a year.
The best exhibition in Europe.
Once a year in Netherlands and once in Belgium, in one of the Gent velodrome.

Here some of my pictures of the 2 De Rosa
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Q...g517061392.jpg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-n.../aIMG_2310.JPG
The second picture is one of the surprising aspect of the De Rosa : the shaping of the basis.
This is forgotten by the seller but the more special feature

Coming back to the Stalen, I don't know if I will continue to participate.
In 2012, I came with too much bikes. The thema was the Belgian bikes, so 1 Orange Molteni Kessels type 1, 1 Libertas, 1 Samyn and the track bike of Jempy. Plus a friend with a Plume Sport. 1 bike stand stolen
In 2013, lesson learned, with the same friend, with only 2 bikes : A Colnago Super (same # as Ray Dobbins) and my Olmo C Titanio of 1974. But uncautious people played domino with someting like 5 -6 bikes Hopefully not mine.
And I had a talk with the organizers who announced me that it would be difficult to keep the same place for the exhibit.
Anyway, I will keep attending. I was able to meet one of the best belgian frame makers and had long discussions with him.

Daveyates

Excuse my ignorance about Campagnolo but wouldn't he of used a Super Record rear derailleur and not a Nuovo Record like on the photos?
Isn't Super Record better? To my eyes the rear derailleur on the Ebay bike reads Nuovo Record?

himespau 

Dude knows the story behind the bike but doesn't want to share it. Hmmmm.

Italuminium

Yeah my girlfriend is in another high school, you don't know her.

big chainring 

6-speeds were spec'd on 1972 Raleigh Pro's. Super Record derailleurs were in use by 1975. 1974 photo's show Merckx on NR components.

I can't get the direct link, but on veloaficionado.com there are pics of Merckx inducted into the Giro d'Italia Hall of Fame. This bike may have been authenticated by Merckx at that event. I can't get the direct link cause i pulled it up on my iphone. Same track pedals, chainring. Same bike as pictured in post #33 .

repechage

That was weird, let's try that again.

Merckx indeed used pista pedals for quite a while. We saw that in 1973 and we all copied.
Regina made 6 speed freewheels since the 60's. Very slow to get adopted. Keen eyes reviewing International Cycle Sport saw 6 cogs in 1973 and more frequently in 1974 in the pro peloton. Mostly by deduction as many support vehicles had 6 block wheels on the roof.
For 1974 I would expect a 6 speed for anywhere other than Paris-Roubaix. Six's were known to bend axles over rough going.

Munny- Thanks for the info on the expos.

daveyates- Super Record mechanisms were not better than Nuovo Record of the time, just more expensive and a bit lighter. I think the very last versions of the Super Record mech. were incrementally better but that was in the 80's.

rootboy 

The first gen Super Record derailleurs did have the Titanium pivot and fixing bolts, didn't they? And one would think if anybody had them that early, the teams would. But maybe they had a stash of Nuovo Record units and didn't need the new units.

repechage

Yes, but. The economics and marketing of components was different back then. Teams were not in general given stuff. They bought Campagnolo almost always. There were exceptions, Campagnolo made special headset, special magnesium hubs and pedal bodies for Merck'x hour record, but that was pretty unique. The teams (or the individual riders) bought Campagnolo as it was best.
The Pro Peloton was used for marketing, but for Campagnolo stuff as used when it was in the distributor pipeline from my observation at the time.
We had a dim view of Super Record way back, "Stupid Record" was what we called it as it showed how silly one was with their money for the small incremental gain. We did like the Superleggero seat posts and pedals and they were expensive enough. The headsets eventually gained a following, I thought a good chance they might be more durable as the races could be heat treated and ground and chrome plating was not necessary... (but I never ran one, too much cash and my steel units worked just fine)

rootboy 

By the way, when was it they changed the orientation of the main return spring? Seems to me I read that that improved the performance of the derailleur some. But I've never tried one.

Citoyen du Monde

The "diamond" chain stays were a standard part of Ugo De Rosa's arsenal. He used them for many years. You will not see them on other brands, but they are indeed common on De Rosa built bikes. These stays and seat stays are good proof that it is indeed De Rosa built.

Drillium Dude 

Sometime around 1983. I've seen a few lower-spring versions with "83" datecodes, but I've also seen them equipped with the earlier upper-spring attachment, too. But I think 1983 is a good educated guess for the transition.

DD

753proguy

Six-speeds have been around since the 1960s. The Raleigh Pro had them as OEM by 1972. Raleigh was an early-adopter of 125 rear-ends.

753proguy

1984 was the first year of the internal spring, as far as I know. Nuovo Record, Super Record, and Rally all got it. Not sure about Gran Sport, etc. Looks like a cost-saving measure, to me.

753proguy

Yep. No proof, no value. Next!

I do like the silver Kessels-built bike, though, and it is at least priced at only double what it is worth. Looks like my size, too....

Minor nit: you mean 'provenance' (Providence is in Rhode Island). :-)

753proguy

That is a very interesting thought. I tend to concur. There are some nice tidbits out there right now, and there seem to be a lot more sellers than buyers of them. I'm buying NOS parts at good prices by watching them not sell on eBay for a couple cycles, then offering a fair price to the seller, privately. Cash is king right now, in many ways, I think....

Drillium Dude 

You are of course correct

My brain is sorta mush as of late; I'm only days away from getting off this rock forever. Been running around like the proverbial chicken sans tete preparing for the transition!

DD

Kactus

Just to break down what we do know so far it appears that Merckx could have ridden a 6-speed freewheel and the diamond chainstays are consistent with a Ugo DeRosa built frame. The Pista pedals are consistent with what Merckx rode at this time as is the NR group. The skewer shown on the rear wheel is 1978 or newer (a replacement by a later owner?) but the brake quick releases are the early style.

None of this is proof that Merckx rode the bike in question but it is consistent (for the most part) with what a Molteni team bike of that time period could have been. So I personally would rate it a could be! Hardly enough to spend $25,000 on. Part of my problem is that he is selling three Molteni bikes; he shows the Merckx bike with white bar tape in one photo and blue in another. It is hard to determine exactly which bike is which.

iab

I'm in agreement.

In terms of provenance, let's say this guy has "extensive info". If I were him, I would likely not put in the public domain of the internet. Keeping the secrets secret enables more robust proof. If every Tom Dick and Harry knew what to forge, you are damn sure they would forge it.

Sure, having a high price and no real provenance on ebay makes for great fodder, but it also keeps all the looky loos from harassing the seller. If I was a serious buyer, my questions would be serious and not on ebay.