ricklp

The frame is a Le Croco with 753 Reynolds tubing. There was another thread in the "What is it worth?" section, but this seems more appropriate here.

I have sent emails to velocals with no response other than the autoresponder they have setup.

Here is a link to some Hi-Res photos I have of this frame's decals. There are huge pictures. I had 10mm clear plastic grid paper made up to be able to have pictures with accurate measurements. I took pics both with and without the grid applied.

https://1drv.ms/1dyy68k

Any ideas? I like the crocodile logo and would love to have the bike with that intact.

Thanks in advance.

Scooper

How many emails did you send, and how long have you waited for a response? JR doesn't always respond right away.

ricklp

I sent emails twice.

Once on March 4, 2014, I had pics attached, but not as detailed in my second email.

My second email was sent as a few emails with large files attached, on March 15, 2014.

In both cases the only reply I got was the auto responder.

I was pretty proud of myself for the grid lines. Kinda disappointed to not get anywhere yet.

Ex Pres 

I think his ebay sales shows out until sometime late this week.


If you have the art ready you may be able to find someone local to you.

ricklp

I have pretty decent pictures of not so decent decals. Many could make these into the artwork. Even I could likely do it if I spent the time. But someone who does it all the time would spend much less time than me.


I would really like to sort of just pay the man and have them appear in my mailbox.

bertinjim 

ricklp-

On my first Bertin restoration, I had the paint work and decals done through Bicycle Specialties/Velocolour as they were just transitioning to Noah Rosen's ownership of the painting facility. They worked from photos that were poorer than yours and did a good job. Seeing that you are in Ontario you might want to give Noah a try at Velocolour. The bike I spoke off is in the photo.

photogravity

I wish you well on getting them to do your decals.

rootboy 

Replacing the decals in those pics? They look pretty nice to me. Planning on repainting the bike?

No offense but, I would take some more pics. Only about ten percent of the ones shown are usable.
Most are out of focus.

zukahn1 

Also are the original decals artwork intacked? If so a lot of first rate auto/motorcyle rebuild restoration shops that do full paint can stencil and repro the decals artwork for a price $75 up.

bres dad

I ran into the same wall with Velocals on custom work but they sent me some stuff I ordered from their ebay store a few weeks back pretty quickly. I've got a few leads on some local shops that can do my graphics.

callig

I've ran into the same thing with this snag first I was told my artwork was no good so it was a no go. then a couple of months later Ii get another e-mail saying they have what I wanted on file so they will do it that was 3 months ago and I've heard nothing. I sent another e-mail about a month ago with no response from VeloCals

rootboy 

What a way to run a biz….

I would contact Greg at Cyclomondo, or Nick at Lloyd's.

ricklp

Cyclomondo was an easy Google search and I have contacted them. Any more info about Lloyds?

Thanks

Ex Pres 

LINK to website

ricklp

Thanks,
H. Lloyd contacted.

Hopefully this solves it. The sad thing is I haven't ridden the bike yet. Just got the gear cable set. The crocodile bike is getting alligator cables.

I suspect either way I will want the decals though. If I love it then I must make it look right. If I flip it, it should go easier with the decals. (The paint is rough)

Stevensb 

Ricklp Don't know if you still want decal photos but here are a few from my buddies Le Croco. He's a better investment advisor than photographer

Brad

iab

Pretty crappy business, atmo.

Recreating vector art from photos will take a minimum of 4 hours. At $60/hour, how many people are willing to spend the $250?

Also, I'm guessing business doesn't want to sell one of anything. Which would be one more of Le Croco decals sold in the last 20 years.

Printing on vinyl and cutting with a plotter can be done by any of the thousands of sign makers in the world. Just give them the artwork.

rootboy 

All true. But I was referring to not even answering emails or inquiries. I'll just ignore them and they'll go away, attitude. Sucks.

SJX426 

I had some issue with VeloCals a couple of years ago. My last contact with them was about 6-8 months ago and with positive results. The charge for custom decals was $100 and then $50 per set afterwards. For that price, I would expect the vector files too. If you pay for NRE (non-reoccurring expenses), you should get the product of the design effort too, otherwise you pay for the design for each person afterwards that doesn't have to pay for NRE. Or you get compensation for the added business you helped generate prorated over a given number of orders.

iab

That would depend upon the artwork. A smart bet would be that Le Croco decals would not bring in a single cent of additional business.

$100 seems to me as a screaming deal for recreating vector art. But you don't need Velocals to make vector art. Craigslist is silly with underpaid graphic designers who forked over $1,600 to have Creative Suite. They will be happy for the job. Then go to any of the dozens of sign makers in your area to have the decals printed and cut.

It ain't rocket science.

ricklp

I'd like to say thanks for the other pictures. They show a seat tube decal that it different from how mine is laid out. Interesting and I think I like it a bit better.

I run a business and there are tasks that do not appear worth my time. But in order to keep running my business I tell people this and give them the option to have it done at a rate that makes it worth it for me to do it.

After I had finished most of the manual clean up of the decal photos into something almost usable by a sign shop, Velocals responded and stated that they had a death in the family. They gave me a quote. I sent them the following reply:

"I am sorry to hear about your loss. Due to the delay, followed by a bit of difficulty finding a reliable alternative source for decals, I started creating the artwork to have a non bicycle specific vinyl company create the decals.

I have not yet completed the conversion to vector based graphics. Please see the attached files and let me know, if they are of use? Will they help a bit with the set up fee?

Also, I am likely to order more than one set, since, I plan to touch up the bike and apply decals without clear coat, pretty much right away. Then, if I like the bike, I will do a complete repaint with clear coated decals. (If I do not like it, I will sell it, and fresh unused decals, I imagine would be appealing to some buyers) I would buy both sets at the same time, right away.

Thanks in advance,

Rick"


I am waiting for a reply, it has been nearly three weeks. I will likely get some miles in the saddle of the bike before I hear anything, and it may save me the expense of my desired temporary decals.

I have often picked the under dog to restore. Not just with bicycles. I get that it can be more costly. It gets irritating when people point out the obvious fact that it is a low volume item to excuse poor treatment by businesses advertising custom work. Custom work is often one off's.

iab

You really think bike decals is JR's primary business?

It gets irritating to me when people think they think when someone is moonlighting they should get all the attention. Side jobs are just that. Don't like JR? Fine. Don't use him, it is that simple. Do tell, how is your pursuit of an alternative coming along? It has been nearly 2 months. People jumping at the project?

ricklp

I have no clue who or what JR (VeloCals?) is. Nor do I care. I am merely trying to pay them in exchange for goods and services, that they publicly claim to provide.

It seems to me bad form to not communicate. If they are having a family emergency, that is one thing, that comes first. If this is standard operating procedure, then three weeks between emails, is a problem.

Cut or printed vinyl decals would take about 1 week to have in my hands locally if I decided to make it happen.

So far I have put about 2 hours into getting pictures that give me accurate measurements of the originals. I spent an afternoon tinkering in Gimp cleaning up the pictures of mangled decals. It would take another afternoon in Inkscape getting clean vector graphics. After that, I know three sign/printing shops, but there are shops on every other corner.

Though 2 months have elapsed, this has not been 2 month's effort.



I do not do graphic arts as a career, or even a hobby. I do not do anything with bicycles as a career. But I do run a business. The only problem I have with VeloCals is that they do not advertise clearly, what to expect. When one takes money for a service, or proposes to, it is good form to set realistic expectations right from the start. That is my only gripe with VeloCals.

Something on their web page like:

"We are a very busy professional sign shop who only make bicycle decals out of our love of bicycles. We are great at what we do, but have to concentrate on the area of our business that pays the bills. It usually takes us 2-4 weeks to look at pictures you send and create an estimate for custom decals. Our setup fee is based on $xx.xx dollars per hour and most bicycle decals take between X.X and X.X hours to prepare. Our printing fee is $x.xx based on (how ever we figure it out)"

Would go a long way towards making this a much better experience.

Over the years, I have tried to support businesses that service the niche markets, that many of my hobbies fall into. Often, I do this by purchasing more mainstream products or services from them. But my money is not worth any less when buying bicycle decals than when I am purchasing food and clothing. If anything it is worth more since this is hobby money that has to get past all other obligations.

I can think of a number of people/businesses who have turned niche market side jobs into very profitable ventures that took over their main jobs. This happens with good planning and consistent customer service. I can also think of many who have had poorly serviced side ventures cost them their main business.



BTW In the interest of full disclosure as well as to let others know their options, H. Lloyde did get back to me quickly. Here is their reply:

"Dear Rick
It’s not impossible to work from photos alone, but it is very hard work and time consuming. I dread to think how long it would take to draw that ruddy crocodile! If it wasn’t for that life would be very simple.
If you want the crocodile I’d need to take a week off from everything else (!) and charge accordingly (another “!”). If you just want the wording with no croc we’d probably be below gbp 50, rather than a long way North of gbp 500 to include the croc.
I guess it will depend on when you last won the lottery......
N"

It was quick and to the point. He professionally told me what he could do for me. 800CAD is somewhat more than I wanted to spend, hence my graphics work mentioned above.



So to concisely answer the troll, I do not know what expect from JR (VeloCals?), because they have not told me. I am still operating on three premises, the first is that I am not in a rush, and the second is that the general consensus here is that the decals they create look good and last, and the third is that there is a consensus here that they eventually get around to creating decals for people. I merely posted my experience so others who may be looking for decals will know what to expect.

iab

In the time you have spent "merely posting" your experience, you could have learned Illustrator and made the artwork yourself. Instead, you have told us how you would run someone else's business. You could have kept it simple, "I never heard back from Velocals so I went elsewhere."

And thanks for the name calling. Classy.

repechage

I think the tone of the above message suffers from the ease of electronic communication. In the pen to paper era, things often got edited back. I read the above as; I am not getting what I want, I looked elsewhere, I have done some groundwork, look at that to see if it can speed the process along, and if I don't find an alternative to you I might buy.
Not a recipe for a successful transaction.