wrk101

Yes, it beat the crap out of running twenty two electrical circuits through a crawl space, half of them in an area with a total height of eight inches…….

Got that rack answer, good thing too as it made making a decision on where to drill the fork so much easier.

I'll post a pic or two of the final product tomorrow (in daylight).

Scooper

I can't wait to see the pictures...

wrk101

Hard to capture the color of the bike. Took some pics outdoors. Its close to purple.

wrk101

Some random observations from my class.

1. If you think you will master TiG welding well enough to do a credible job on a frame in a week, you are either a welding prodigy, or dreaming. Credit goes to Steve Garn with some awesome welds.

2. Go to the class knowing the details of the bike you desire. Lots of decisions need to be made. Knowing what components you plan to use can affect BB shell, rear spacing, required braze ons and more. Its not the time to guess!

3. In my case, the class was all about building the main frame, no forks! I took a fork with me which allowed me to end the class with a color matched fork, with extra rack braze ons added to it. Leaving with just the frame itself would have been disappointing.

4. While mastering welding in a week is a stretch to say the least, you can become competent enough to do all the grinding and mitering. And believe me, there is A LOT of it to do!

5. I was surprised how tight/close fitting the tubes need to be. Perhaps Steve maintains a high standard. But the basic rule in my class was tight enough you couldn't get a fingernail underneath it. Try mitering a DT, that meets the head tube at an angle, and meets the bottom bracket shell at another angle, and be sure to miter it to fit around the seat tube as well. Grind a little too much, and you will be making a smaller frame size.

6. This frame is double butted 4130 cromoly. I was surprised with the weight (3.9 pounds). There really isn't that big of a savings going with carbon fiber or aluminum. Are you going to save 1 pound? 1 1/2 pounds? Weight is more impacted by the rest of the build.

I found taking a class where you end up with a painted frame was a nice benefit. Some classes I looked into this is not the case. Imagine taking home your brand new frame from a class and not being able to build it right away. The same is true with a fork. Sure, if you want to use a generic carbon or chrome fork, not such a big deal. But if you want a color matched fork, you better take it with you!

Here's an example from another school (a two week school by the way): "Students who successfully complete this class will leave with a high quality custom chromoly bicycle frame ready for painting…… If you are building a fillet brazed (brazing class only) or TIG welded bike (TIG class only), you will not build a fork" i.e., paint is on you, ditto a fork.


On flexibility, here's the guidelines from another school (also two week class): "Frame type design is your choice of road,track, Cyclocross (No BMX, tandem, touring, MTB due to lack of time and special fixture set-ups required to build such frames)." That leaves the frame I built out...


Ask questions before you pick a class. Look at the teacher student ratio, and the instructor's experience. Is there flexibility, or is the school pretty rigid? The longer the class (assuming it is not local), the higher your travel expenses are going to be. Myself, I figure I can take TiG welding classes locally at a low cost. So if I want to further my skills, that would be my plan, with perhaps a follow up shorter class.

gomango

I think you did a great job.

Better than I could do.

Congrats.

neo_pop_71

Really great job Bill, thanks for the progress photos and details! Also, I appreciate you pointing out the difference between other classes, having a frame and fork ready to build would be a big deal for me. What braze ons did you add to the fork? Do you already have the components set aside? I'm curious how you're going to build this one... drop bar with fancy parts?

Thanks again for taking us along on your frame building journey! I can't wait to see the completed bike!

Cheers to you Thrifty Bill and one less "to do" on the bucket list!

-D-

Italuminium

That looks excellent, Bill. looking forward to seeing the photo's of the bike all build up. NExt up on the bucket list a really long tour ?

Dan Burkhart 

Awesome thread! Thanks for sharing. A frame building course is definitely something I would like to do, but I think I'd be going the lugged route.

Scooper

Bill, it looks great and your comments are right on. I'm betting the finished build will be pretty awesome.

repechage

Bringing a fork to the class I think was a good idea. If there was the time and cash available, starting with the fork class might be the way to go.
Thanks for the reports. It does appear that some brazing work was included. I think that is good.

Mastering Tig is I think the apprehension for me, the bit I have been exposed to long ago in a college materials and processes class gave me much respect for the skill and variables to be considered. It is quite effective as a joining method and good Tig work is equal in effort to brazing well, maybe even more as I found the approach to what sectors of a tube joint to weld and in what order I found effect the finished alignment of the tubes after one is done welding.

inkandsilver

Looks great Bill! Maybe it's time for a custom "DRF" decal set?

obrentharris 

Congratulations Bill!

And thanks for the detailed reports. I too am eager to see pictures of the built up bike.
Brent

simmonsgc

Nice work Bill, and you had lovely weather.

Did Steve shoot the attendee's bikes with powder and run them through the oven, or did you you (he?) do wet paint? I like that purple.

wrk101

Steve did the powder coat job. He has a large industrial oven, pretty nice set up. Colors were limited to what he had in hand. If I was looking to get a frame powder coated, I'd check with Steve for sure. He did a nice job plugging every braze on, opening, BB, fork steer tube and crown, etc., to prevent the usual powder issues.

dweenk

Bill,

I waited to read this thread until today. I really want to know about the jig that was used in class. It seems that you can cut, miter, and grind to perfection - but if the jig is off by a bit, you end up with scrap metal. Your thoughts?

wrk101

The jig is important if you want it right. Really need to have everything right on the jig BEFORE you grind the TT, DT and the stays. Otherwise, something will be off.

Got the frame set road worthy. Its not my ultimate build, but its close with what I have on hand. I have a shorter stem on order, this one is too long. Built this frame set to accommodate at least a 2.75 inch wide tire. Looks weird with these 1.25 inch tires on there. Fork came off a 1994/1995 Trek 930, added mid fork rack mounts.

Scooper

It looks great, Bill! The 2.75 inch tires will do a good job of filling that space between the rims and the fenders.

Italuminium

needs moar tire, indeed have you designed aroud such a, enthoused, stem?

wrk101

Stem was just a left over I had laying around. I did design it around the Trek fork I had, threaded 1 1/8 inch steer tube. The stem I have on order is shorter and silver.

+1 The clearance on the fenders is unbelievable with those 1.25 tires. I have some fatties that will go on there next.

Homebrew01

In my case, Yes.

I took a 1 week class after I got out of high school (many years ago) and ended up with a nice lugged frame.

I was able to build my own fixtures after that in my parent's basement using some creativity, a drill press and 3/4 " aluminum plate and channels I got from a local manufacturing company by rummaging through their odd-bits pile. I built myself another frame that I raced and still ride (30 years later), and then another for a friend.

I still have all the fixtures collecting dust in my current basement.

wrk101

Another point I am not sure I mentioned earlier, the frame triangle weighed in at 3.9 pounds, pretty light IMHO for double butted 4130 cromoly. So the weight penalty of steel is not as great as I thought. At that point, the choice of fork, components, wheels, etc., are really the drivers of overall weight.

qcpmsame 

Thanks for the thread and your running commentary, Bill, this was one informative and eye opening job. Great looking result from your work/class.

Bill

neo_pop_71

Hey Bill (wrk101),

That must be so satisfying to step back and think to yourself that "I built that... one hell of job, me!" Goodness knows the pleasure I take when I finish a build and give myself those imaginary pats on the back. Just knowing that a few days earlier a bunch of tubes were crafted into a fabulous bike must be the best feeling! A really nice feature for that vintage feel is having dual water bottle bosses on the down tube, I love that about your frame Bill and I'm so glad you did that... classic touch!!! If I ever take a frame building class, I'm having dual water bottle bosses brazed on the down tube. My 1986 Ritchey and my recently finished 1987 Panasonic drop bar conversion both had double water bottle bosses on the down tube and I really love that look!



Like you Bill, I also ran some 700c Organic Bike bamboo fenders on my cafe/pub crawler. I love the look of the natural bamboo fenders juxtaposed with the gold metal flake "Sunset Orange" paint!



I've been lurking around the frame builders forum for years and the best design I've seen for an affordable frame jig is ________'s (I forgot to save his name so I could give him credit. sorry __________) "sizing board" design. It involved routing some aluminum plates that are riveted to a large board or table top, some others lengths of aluminum plate are router'd out with various framing blocks ordered online. I'm fairly certain that the jig cost $70.00 to make, compared against $1,500.00 for a low end frame jig, the "sizing board" is certainly better suited for the novice frame builder! Here is a photo of the sizing board:



Thank you so much Bill for bringing us along on your "bucket list" journey! Like your other postings it proved informative and very enjoyable to follow, thanks for sharing and congrats on checking off another bucket list item!!!

Best regards as always,

-D-

wrk101

Nice work on that jig!

repechage

Does the bike handle to your expectations?