Look Who's Wrenching C & V Steel
04-17-14, 11:36 AM
#26
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@RobbieTunes, there's a great deal of truth in what you say, and for all those reasons I did respect Lance and believed and defended him whenever he wrote or it was reported he said something like, "I'm the most tested athlete on the planet. How could I ever be a cheat?" But in the end, he was, and thankfully he eventually admitted to being one.
Now I'll be the first to say we must all forgive and forget and move forward. If LA can become, be, and maintain being a positive influence and contributor on this great planet of ours, fantastic. But he deserves any doubt and caution thrown his way for the time being.
I do admit how I was struck by his apparent humility in the video. I hope it was not an act, either on his part or by Outside magazine.
Now I'll be the first to say we must all forgive and forget and move forward. If LA can become, be, and maintain being a positive influence and contributor on this great planet of ours, fantastic. But he deserves any doubt and caution thrown his way for the time being.
I do admit how I was struck by his apparent humility in the video. I hope it was not an act, either on his part or by Outside magazine.
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04-17-14, 11:42 AM
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Robbie- I like what you wrote and can relate. But there's something way deeper and troubling with that man.
Forget the ego on Mt. Everest and I don't want to get into this or that but just because he's accomplished 'great things', he's done some serious damage to those closest around him. Nothing is sacred and everything has been exposed by his former closest. And from his supposedly open and candid interviews still hasn't expressed sincerity of apology. Doesn't come off right. Cancer survivors? Might want to read the commentary's by his ex brides.
Maybe he's rounding the corner and a humbling side of him is welcome. Wish him the best.
Forget the ego on Mt. Everest and I don't want to get into this or that but just because he's accomplished 'great things', he's done some serious damage to those closest around him. Nothing is sacred and everything has been exposed by his former closest. And from his supposedly open and candid interviews still hasn't expressed sincerity of apology. Doesn't come off right. Cancer survivors? Might want to read the commentary's by his ex brides.
Maybe he's rounding the corner and a humbling side of him is welcome. Wish him the best.
04-17-14, 11:46 AM
#28
Senior Member
You guys sound thirsty!
He did some really good things, he did some really not so good things. And now he's changing a tube, life goes on.
He did some really good things, he did some really not so good things. And now he's changing a tube, life goes on.
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04-17-14, 11:59 AM
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04-17-14, 12:24 PM
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The purpose of this video eludes me.
I do find most celebrities to be creepy. Either creepy people are selected to be celebrities, or celebritization quickly makes these people creepy.
The celebrities I've met (with a few exceptions such as Greg Lemond) do indeed to be shallow/creepy to the extreme.
I do find most celebrities to be creepy. Either creepy people are selected to be celebrities, or celebritization quickly makes these people creepy.
The celebrities I've met (with a few exceptions such as Greg Lemond) do indeed to be shallow/creepy to the extreme.
Last edited by dddd; 04-17-14 at 12:32 PM.
04-17-14, 12:39 PM
#31
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04-17-14, 12:42 PM
#32
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"Drinking the Kool-aid" is for the fan-boys who excuse away the inconvenient details, and/or embellish the positives.
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04-17-14, 12:46 PM
#33
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04-17-14, 12:49 PM
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He was an outstanding triathlete and runner, and an exemplary cyclist, even in his teens.
He did the same thing everyone else did (doped as a pro) except for getting caught.
He outrode everyone on the planet, repeatedly, and masked his doping somehow.
He pressured his compadres to lie, lied himself, and finally admitted it and was disgraced.
If he'd have spoken French and embraced France, the issue would never have come up.
He's also from Texas, and from the wrong political party to get the gloss-over by US media.
As a pro cyclist and a public figure, that's what the deal is, and I respect what he did.
His job required some of the things he did, and he was ruthless and dishonest about it, and I don't admire that.
I sure don't think I'm better than him as a person in any way, shape or form, and I'm in no position to judge.
He overcame a tremendous bout with cancer.
He has generated millions for that cause, both to research, treatment, and directly to victims.
He was a gracious behind-the-scenes host at a very good NAHBS, when he didn't have to be.
He moved and shook Shimano and Trek in ways we don't know about, but likely benefit from.
He often bought high-end collectible frames that we appreciate, because he appreciates them as well.
He's a dad, and acts like one. He's a human, and acts like one.
I'd love to have a beer with him, talk old bikes with him, talk cancer with him, talk kids with him, talk music with him.
I've heard he has a wicked sense of deadpan humor to go along with his tremendous discipline and work ethic.
Before he was famous, or doping, a guy named Merckx recognized him as the real thing.
I'd ride with him any day, and be happy about it. I'd wrench with him any day, and be happy about it.
He can work on my bike any time, and I'd definitely pay more to have him sign the ticket.
If I ever get the chance to just shake his hand and say "Thanks," I will. For everything.
He did the same thing everyone else did (doped as a pro) except for getting caught.
He outrode everyone on the planet, repeatedly, and masked his doping somehow.
He pressured his compadres to lie, lied himself, and finally admitted it and was disgraced.
If he'd have spoken French and embraced France, the issue would never have come up.
He's also from Texas, and from the wrong political party to get the gloss-over by US media.
As a pro cyclist and a public figure, that's what the deal is, and I respect what he did.
His job required some of the things he did, and he was ruthless and dishonest about it, and I don't admire that.
I sure don't think I'm better than him as a person in any way, shape or form, and I'm in no position to judge.
He overcame a tremendous bout with cancer.
He has generated millions for that cause, both to research, treatment, and directly to victims.
He was a gracious behind-the-scenes host at a very good NAHBS, when he didn't have to be.
He moved and shook Shimano and Trek in ways we don't know about, but likely benefit from.
He often bought high-end collectible frames that we appreciate, because he appreciates them as well.
He's a dad, and acts like one. He's a human, and acts like one.
I'd love to have a beer with him, talk old bikes with him, talk cancer with him, talk kids with him, talk music with him.
I've heard he has a wicked sense of deadpan humor to go along with his tremendous discipline and work ethic.
Before he was famous, or doping, a guy named Merckx recognized him as the real thing.
I'd ride with him any day, and be happy about it. I'd wrench with him any day, and be happy about it.
He can work on my bike any time, and I'd definitely pay more to have him sign the ticket.
If I ever get the chance to just shake his hand and say "Thanks," I will. For everything.
I got It's Not about the Bike as a present one Christmas. I read it. My takeaway was the guy WAS cheating. My conclusion was he was so focused and anguished on those surprise tests that if there was nothing to find, it would have been a disruption for sure but not that big of one, the price of winning perhaps. In addition, stating "I was never found to be cheating" or the virtual equivalent to that is NOT the same as stating flat out, "I never cheated in that way". I was impressed that he did not get caught, (well it looks like the final record will show that he did but the UCI was complicit in letting that Tour of Switzerland episode go). His actions probably came at a heavy price to his personal relationships with his wife and later some girlfriends, I feel for his children.
Has he done some good? Yes. But at what cost?
04-17-14, 12:57 PM
#35
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Meh, I don't care for him anymore, I wasn't his biggest supporter before but respected his riding, those early years riding against Jan were way memorable. I don't respect him for being the best doper and threatening to sue anyone who said otherwise. I feel that you can equate him with the dope dealer that does nice things for the community. Ultimately he was a cheat, a bully, and a fantastic doped bike rider.
It's sad to me,when I was 6 or 7, Lemond and Hampsten made me a loyal fan of bike racing, and the known reality that transpired after them and in sports in general make it pretty disappointing to reflect on my wasted love of watching the sport. It's sad, sad, sad and will be a long time before I enjoy watching bike racing again.
As for him, as a man, I hope he's a good dad. That's about it.
He did like to have a friction front shifter and STI rear which was pretty cool though.
It's sad to me,when I was 6 or 7, Lemond and Hampsten made me a loyal fan of bike racing, and the known reality that transpired after them and in sports in general make it pretty disappointing to reflect on my wasted love of watching the sport. It's sad, sad, sad and will be a long time before I enjoy watching bike racing again.
As for him, as a man, I hope he's a good dad. That's about it.
He did like to have a friction front shifter and STI rear which was pretty cool though.
04-17-14, 01:09 PM
#36
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...... That could be cool to watch....
04-17-14, 01:17 PM
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Outside Mag and LA. - Just caught his twitty link from back; June 2010. Nice one.
https://twitter.com/lancearmstrong/status/16324036604
https://twitter.com/lancearmstrong/status/16324036604
04-17-14, 01:49 PM
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Lest anyone take what I wrote in the wrong way, when I meant thank him for "everything," I also meant the mistakes.
Personally, he has, does, and will suffer the consequences, in all of his relationships.
Professionally, he has, does, and will suffer the consequences of his actions, (unless, of course, he runs for office).
Pro cycling will, I hope, be better for it all in the long run.
Amateur cycling was better for Armstrong, and will continue to be,
because until you get that good, it just may be about the bike, in a perverse way.
Cycling sports physiology will be better off in the long run, as well.
Certainly, the bio-mechanical and physiological advances he was part of.
Certainly, the individual and team training techniques he was part of.
Certainly, the advanced drug testing techniques he caused to happen.
Certainly, the change in attitude about doping, which is really the sea change most needed.
Certainly, team protocols are changing, and teams will think twice about what they demand of riders.
The "prove it" mentalilty is hardly unique amongst Americans. It's right out of our legal system.
Lance Armstrong is good example of carrying it too far, and being ruthless about dissent. (listening, IRS?)
Most often, colossal figures are shown to be as colossally flawed as colossally gifted/driven/disciplined.
Today's information technology just makes that very apparent, very quickly. I'm surprised it took as long as it did.
The farther in time you go back, the longer delayed and more mitigated were the flaws of our "great" figures.
Today, it often depends on who holds you in contempt for the time/depth of your undoing to occur.
Nevertheless, it will happen.
Personally, he has, does, and will suffer the consequences, in all of his relationships.
Professionally, he has, does, and will suffer the consequences of his actions, (unless, of course, he runs for office).
Pro cycling will, I hope, be better for it all in the long run.
Amateur cycling was better for Armstrong, and will continue to be,
because until you get that good, it just may be about the bike, in a perverse way.
Cycling sports physiology will be better off in the long run, as well.
Certainly, the bio-mechanical and physiological advances he was part of.
Certainly, the individual and team training techniques he was part of.
Certainly, the advanced drug testing techniques he caused to happen.
Certainly, the change in attitude about doping, which is really the sea change most needed.
Certainly, team protocols are changing, and teams will think twice about what they demand of riders.
The "prove it" mentalilty is hardly unique amongst Americans. It's right out of our legal system.
Lance Armstrong is good example of carrying it too far, and being ruthless about dissent. (listening, IRS?)
Most often, colossal figures are shown to be as colossally flawed as colossally gifted/driven/disciplined.
Today's information technology just makes that very apparent, very quickly. I'm surprised it took as long as it did.
The farther in time you go back, the longer delayed and more mitigated were the flaws of our "great" figures.
Today, it often depends on who holds you in contempt for the time/depth of your undoing to occur.
Nevertheless, it will happen.
Last edited by RobbieTunes; 04-17-14 at 01:54 PM. Reason: PARDON THE SPELLING/GRAMMAR/PUNCTUATION!
04-17-14, 02:04 PM
#39
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I care about Lance's doping about as much as I care about Tiger's philandering.
04-17-14, 02:12 PM
#40
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I was a supporter of Lance and very disappointed when the truth came out. However I wish him no ill will, he did a lot for cycling as a sport and recreation.
Last edited by a77impala; 04-17-14 at 02:20 PM.
04-17-14, 03:45 PM
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We all miss the mark. We all need second chance. Even people like lance need a second, third, forth chance. I know that I needed all those chances too and many more too. We all disappoint someone in life. Forgiveness is important we all need to ask for it. I hope lance learn this lesson.
Last edited by dwightisright; 04-17-14 at 03:49 PM.
04-17-14, 04:19 PM
#42
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This, and everything Robbie said. I feel privileged to have lived in the time of Jordan, James, Armstrong, Woods, Federer, Ali, Mays, etc. What a treat it is to be able the witness the best of the best as it happens! I am, personally, as qualified to throw stones as, say, Woody Allen. And if there is anyone here who is qualified to throw that first stone, I'm ready to receive it. Carry on,
04-17-14, 04:23 PM
#43
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He can only blame himself......
Nobody forced him to cheat, it was his decision to do so in the end and he will have to live with the consequences.
Now if he was somebody like Lindsay Lohan, Robert Downy Jr. or Paris Hilton, the world might have given him another chance,.....then another.....then another.......then another......
Hmmmm.... Maybe a new career in showbiz will be Lance's second chance in life??
Gary Busey could be his mentor on how to survive in showbiz without even really trying......
Nobody forced him to cheat, it was his decision to do so in the end and he will have to live with the consequences.
Now if he was somebody like Lindsay Lohan, Robert Downy Jr. or Paris Hilton, the world might have given him another chance,.....then another.....then another.......then another......
Hmmmm.... Maybe a new career in showbiz will be Lance's second chance in life??
Gary Busey could be his mentor on how to survive in showbiz without even really trying......
04-17-14, 04:51 PM
#45
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I would have to think that, once he finally copped to it, all the pressure just melted away and he would've felt relief like he's never felt before. Sure, he still has to deal with the consequences, but that's probably a comfortable known element compared to the pressure he used to be under. Wrenching on an old bike in front of a camera probably feels pretty good now.
04-17-14, 05:22 PM
#46
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I have seen as many relationships and finances destroyed by divorce. Have the country goes through it. Life goes on.
What's funny is before he got busted I was a hater because I was of the opinion he was doping. After the bust I am considered a fanboy because I am of the opinion that what he did wasn't evil. Go figure.
What's funny is before he got busted I was a hater because I was of the opinion he was doping. After the bust I am considered a fanboy because I am of the opinion that what he did wasn't evil. Go figure.
04-17-14, 05:25 PM
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Armstrong would have been a great rider without the doping, and became an arrogant arse who really hurt a lot of people while falsely defending his fake reputation. Although I don't have much sympathy for many of them, who were dopers themselves. Lie down with dogs, wake up with fleas. Armstrong will forever be known as a cheating fake because of his malicious behavior, while Merckx is still regarded by many as the greatest cyclist of all time. Maybe what Armstrong really needed was a good PR team!
04-17-14, 10:30 PM
#48
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The problem as I see it is that he over-extended his reliance on their magical powers.
Greg LeMond was the "canary in the coal mine" who tempered many American's enthusiasm for the lies, who could have served as Lance's savior if only Lance hadn't been so arrogant imo.
With the problems having been revealed in the foreign press for, literally, years, only a majority of cheering Americans would fall for it as long as they did.
Lance's time ran out, and he further tempted fate with his comeback attempt. I cheered him on when he took Nevada City a few years ago, I had a good time.
But I don't think that we know the half of it, the ruthless conspiracy that treated one athlete different than another in the eyes of the UCI.
04-18-14, 05:37 AM
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There must've been a handful of guys in the pro peloton during those years that didn't take PED's.
Those are the guys I would admire…if I could figure out who they were.
dddd has a point. Look at the guy's eyes. c…r…e…e…p…y...
Those are the guys I would admire…if I could figure out who they were.
dddd has a point. Look at the guy's eyes. c…r…e…e…p…y...
04-18-14, 06:38 AM
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At this point, LA's drug taking doesn't really bother me (at the time it did). What really bothers me about him is his scorched earth attacks on people who accused him of cheating, and the way he (and his PR/legal team) ruined careers of people who we all know now were telling the truth. Like someone above said, if he hadn't been such a bastard, I could have gotten over the cheating.
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