Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 25 of 25
  1. #1
    Senior Member GordoTrek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    My Bikes
    1990 Trek 930 singletrack, 1982 Trek 412, 1993 Trek 2200 Composite,1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Raleigh Grand Prix Porteur, 1975 Raleigh Sports,1984 Schwinn World Sport,
    Posts
    857
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    is this a Paramount?

    this frame has been hiding out at the coop, i decided to do a little investigating, it has a DA7400 crankset and shimano 600 headset, along with shimano dropouts, unfortunately somebody had some creative time with it, and now it looks like it belongs in a circus,, it has a dime size dent on the downtube, which makes me think its lighter tubing.. possibly reynolds or columbus, my experience with reynolds 531 is that it dents easily
    the sn, is 9000 WJ 86019, not sure if the first nine is a 9 or 5, couldn't tell.

    here are some pics, some are really blurry i was up late taking them..
    20140511_230318.jpg20140511_230338.jpg20140511_230405.jpg20140511_230410.jpg20140511_230416.jpg20140511_230434.jpg20140511_230640.jpg20140511_230652.jpg

    my early thoughts that if it is a paramount its likely a mid 80's with the recessed nut for the brakes.
    20140511_230255.jpg20140511_230345.jpg20140511_230424.jpg
    My Bikes- http://imgur.com/a/WHSUo "You should ride a bicycle for twenty minutes every day, unless you're too busy; then you should ride for an hour"

  2. #2
    Freewheel Medic pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Trying to Ride in the NH Mountains!
    My Bikes
    Vintage Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, & an '83 Santana Tandem
    Posts
    8,967
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The decals and paint are all wrong as you noted.

    The chrome chainstay, rear brake bridge, and seat cluster/lug look very much the same as a Waterford Paramount. The crown on the fork does not look correct. Unfortunately I don't have any good pictures of my '83 Paramount to compare with your examples.

    Have you looked for a serial number? I'm guessing the one pictured is from 1985 or later. The serial number should be on the bottom of the BB shell. A Paramount serial number is very specific.
    Bob
    Dreaming of Summertime in NH!

    Visit my websites:
    FreeWheelSpa.com orpastorbobnlnh.com

  3. #3
    Senior Member GordoTrek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    My Bikes
    1990 Trek 930 singletrack, 1982 Trek 412, 1993 Trek 2200 Composite,1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Raleigh Grand Prix Porteur, 1975 Raleigh Sports,1984 Schwinn World Sport,
    Posts
    857
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    i think its an 89...
    Waterford Built 1989 Schwinn Paramount Road Bike Dura Ace 7402 Very Original | eBay

    found this little beauty.. holy crap it really is a paramount!!
    My Bikes- http://imgur.com/a/WHSUo "You should ride a bicycle for twenty minutes every day, unless you're too busy; then you should ride for an hour"

  4. #4
    Senior Member GordoTrek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    My Bikes
    1990 Trek 930 singletrack, 1982 Trek 412, 1993 Trek 2200 Composite,1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Raleigh Grand Prix Porteur, 1975 Raleigh Sports,1984 Schwinn World Sport,
    Posts
    857
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    thanks pb, the serial is in the original post, it was hard to make out, after i scraped the house paint off,

    Quote Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
    The decals and paint are all wrong as you noted.

    The chrome chainstay, rear brake bridge, and seat cluster/lug look very much the same as a Waterford Paramount. The crown on the fork does not look correct. Unfortunately I don't have any good pictures of my '83 Paramount to compare with your examples.

    Have you looked for a serial number? I'm guessing the one pictured is from 1985 or later. The serial number should be on the bottom of the BB shell. A Paramount serial number is very specific.
    My Bikes- http://imgur.com/a/WHSUo "You should ride a bicycle for twenty minutes every day, unless you're too busy; then you should ride for an hour"

  5. #5
    Keener splendor TimmyT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    New York, NY
    My Bikes
    Nigel Dean Tour Ace, '85 Univega Gran Turismo, Ciocc Designer '84, '90 Fuji Saratoga, Lynskey Litespeed Ti, '69 Peter Cockburn Audax
    Posts
    1,007
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Determine the Manufacturing Date

    Your S/N is a bit funny, but others here know Paramounts better than I do. Bob is right about the fork crown. The 89 you linked to has a different fork crown, but some builders use as many as 3 to 5 crowns at any one time for different reasons (aesthetics, ride, drilling, etc).

  6. #6
    Senior Member GordoTrek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    My Bikes
    1990 Trek 930 singletrack, 1982 Trek 412, 1993 Trek 2200 Composite,1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Raleigh Grand Prix Porteur, 1975 Raleigh Sports,1984 Schwinn World Sport,
    Posts
    857
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    i believe its an 89.. what do you think? the fork crown matches, as does the crank/shifters and headset

    Quote Originally Posted by TimmyT View Post
    Determine the Manufacturing Date

    Your S/N is a bit funny, but others here know Paramounts better than I do. Bob is right about the fork crown. The 89 you linked to has a different fork crown, but some builders use as many as 3 to 5 crowns at any one time for different reasons (aesthetics, ride, drilling, etc).
    My Bikes- http://imgur.com/a/WHSUo "You should ride a bicycle for twenty minutes every day, unless you're too busy; then you should ride for an hour"

  7. #7
    Freewheel Medic pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Trying to Ride in the NH Mountains!
    My Bikes
    Vintage Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, & an '83 Santana Tandem
    Posts
    8,967
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by GordoTrek View Post
    thanks pb, the serial is in the original post, it was hard to make out, after i scraped the house paint off,
    Oops! I missed the SN. My bad! 9000 WJ 86019 does look like a Waterford Paramount SN. Skip the "9000" for a moment. "WJ" equates to Waterford-September, "86" equates to 1986, and "019" equates to the 19th frame that month. You say the "9" in 9000 could be a "5." This is the frame size number, and a "5" would mean it is a 50 something cm frame, which it looks to be. Reexamine this part of the number and see if it is not a "56xx" etc.

    A picture would be helpful. Try rubbing a very light coat of wax or polish in the numbers before taking the pictures. Waterford SN are very hard to see. Here is the one in my '83. They were still placing them on the left rear dropout at this point. The change to the BB shell would occur in late '84.

    Bob
    Dreaming of Summertime in NH!

    Visit my websites:
    FreeWheelSpa.com orpastorbobnlnh.com

  8. #8
    Senior Member GordoTrek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    My Bikes
    1990 Trek 930 singletrack, 1982 Trek 412, 1993 Trek 2200 Composite,1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Raleigh Grand Prix Porteur, 1975 Raleigh Sports,1984 Schwinn World Sport,
    Posts
    857
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    i think the fork crowns match?

    Untitled.jpg
    My Bikes- http://imgur.com/a/WHSUo "You should ride a bicycle for twenty minutes every day, unless you're too busy; then you should ride for an hour"

  9. #9
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Posts
    11,789
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    The forks a dead ringer for the '86/7 I owned.
    WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 2005 Pinarello Dogma; 1991 Paramount PDG 70 Mtb; 1976? AD Vent Noir; 1989 LeMond Maillot Juane F&F; 1993? Basso GAP F&F; 1989 Terry Symmetry; 2003 Trek 4700 Mtb; 1983 Vitus 979

  10. #10
    Senior Member GordoTrek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    My Bikes
    1990 Trek 930 singletrack, 1982 Trek 412, 1993 Trek 2200 Composite,1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Raleigh Grand Prix Porteur, 1975 Raleigh Sports,1984 Schwinn World Sport,
    Posts
    857
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    now i am confused, the fork crown makes me think its a later model, but the SN obviously points to it being an 86,
    Waterford Schwinn Paramount 1986 Period Correct Original Shimano 600 Parts | eBay
    this looks like the bike too, except the forks, maybe it was built with different forks?

    at the end of the day we can confirm it probably is a paramount
    My Bikes- http://imgur.com/a/WHSUo "You should ride a bicycle for twenty minutes every day, unless you're too busy; then you should ride for an hour"

  11. #11
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Posts
    11,789
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    No. The blue one has a semi-sloping crown. The op's is flat.
    WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 2005 Pinarello Dogma; 1991 Paramount PDG 70 Mtb; 1976? AD Vent Noir; 1989 LeMond Maillot Juane F&F; 1993? Basso GAP F&F; 1989 Terry Symmetry; 2003 Trek 4700 Mtb; 1983 Vitus 979

  12. #12
    Senior Member GordoTrek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    My Bikes
    1990 Trek 930 singletrack, 1982 Trek 412, 1993 Trek 2200 Composite,1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Raleigh Grand Prix Porteur, 1975 Raleigh Sports,1984 Schwinn World Sport,
    Posts
    857
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    good to hear, any pics by chance?

    Quote Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
    The forks a dead ringer for the '86/7 I owned.
    My Bikes- http://imgur.com/a/WHSUo "You should ride a bicycle for twenty minutes every day, unless you're too busy; then you should ride for an hour"

  13. #13
    Ride More seedsbelize's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Mérida, Yucatán, México
    My Bikes
    '84 Schwinn Letour Luxe, '84 Schwinn traveler, '87 Schwinn Prelude(2), 91 Giant Yukon, 92 Schwinn Paramount PDG 5 unicrown
    Posts
    1,839
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You did mention that somebody had some creative time with it. This could explain the odd fork. Unfortunately I cannot access the site at all on Google, this morning, and I can't look at pics on IE.

  14. #14
    Senior Member GordoTrek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    My Bikes
    1990 Trek 930 singletrack, 1982 Trek 412, 1993 Trek 2200 Composite,1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Raleigh Grand Prix Porteur, 1975 Raleigh Sports,1984 Schwinn World Sport,
    Posts
    857
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    honestly, i don't really care so much as what the year is, just if it is a paramount or not, this frame has been hanging out at the coop for awhile, its been kind of a joke, nobody thought it really was a parmount, but the fact that it had DA cranks on it, made us all pause, i decided to take it upon myself to finally find out what it was.

    thanks everybody for helping me figure out what this thing is.
    My Bikes- http://imgur.com/a/WHSUo "You should ride a bicycle for twenty minutes every day, unless you're too busy; then you should ride for an hour"

  15. #15
    Freewheel Medic pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Trying to Ride in the NH Mountains!
    My Bikes
    Vintage Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, & an '83 Santana Tandem
    Posts
    8,967
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
    No. The blue one has a semi-sloping crown. The op's is flat.
    Jim, I was thinking the same thing. All the Waterford Paramounts had a slightly sloping crown and this one is very flat.

    Gordo, are the front fork dropouts Campagnolo? Or do they match the same brand as the rear? Have you pulled the fork to check for a SN on the steering tube? Most Paramounts have matching SN unless the fork was replaced at some point.

    Waiting to hear more!
    Bob
    Dreaming of Summertime in NH!

    Visit my websites:
    FreeWheelSpa.com orpastorbobnlnh.com

  16. #16
    Senior Member shoota's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    My Bikes
    1987 Trek 560
    Posts
    3,364
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by GordoTrek View Post
    thanks everybody for helping me figure out what this thing is.
    Quote Originally Posted by GordoTrek View Post
    holy crap it really is a paramount!!
    Quote Originally Posted by GordoTrek View Post
    at the end of the day we can confirm it probably is a paramount
    At least one person is convinced lol.
    2005 Cannondale six13 10s SRAM

  17. #17
    Senior Member GordoTrek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    My Bikes
    1990 Trek 930 singletrack, 1982 Trek 412, 1993 Trek 2200 Composite,1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Raleigh Grand Prix Porteur, 1975 Raleigh Sports,1984 Schwinn World Sport,
    Posts
    857
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    im all over the place i know, the front and rear drop outs are both shimano, ill have to pop the fork off when i get home later
    My Bikes- http://imgur.com/a/WHSUo "You should ride a bicycle for twenty minutes every day, unless you're too busy; then you should ride for an hour"

  18. #18
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Posts
    11,789
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
    Jim, I was thinking the same thing. All the Waterford Paramounts had a slightly sloping crown and this one is very flat.
    There were a few years they had exceptionally flat crowns....the white one is an '85, notice its flat and sloping with a very sharp edge.

    WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 2005 Pinarello Dogma; 1991 Paramount PDG 70 Mtb; 1976? AD Vent Noir; 1989 LeMond Maillot Juane F&F; 1993? Basso GAP F&F; 1989 Terry Symmetry; 2003 Trek 4700 Mtb; 1983 Vitus 979

  19. #19
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Posts
    11,789
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    This repainted red and white is an '88....Flat crown with a slight slope, sharp edges and it has the two points on the side of the crown. And a black '87 with the same crown...flat, slight slope, sharp edge

    The '85 has Campy portacatena dropouts, the '87 and '88 have Shimano...



    Last edited by miamijim; 05-12-14 at 09:10 AM.
    WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 2005 Pinarello Dogma; 1991 Paramount PDG 70 Mtb; 1976? AD Vent Noir; 1989 LeMond Maillot Juane F&F; 1993? Basso GAP F&F; 1989 Terry Symmetry; 2003 Trek 4700 Mtb; 1983 Vitus 979

  20. #20
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Posts
    11,789
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by GordoTrek View Post
    im all over the place i know, the front and rear drop outs are both shimano, ill have to pop the fork off when i get home later
    It's a Paramount.... A tell tale sign is Schwinn's primer, they used a rust/red/brown colored primer, you'll see it on the fork steerer and inside the BB.

    Not double mitered but it doesn't get much cleaner than this!!1

    WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 2005 Pinarello Dogma; 1991 Paramount PDG 70 Mtb; 1976? AD Vent Noir; 1989 LeMond Maillot Juane F&F; 1993? Basso GAP F&F; 1989 Terry Symmetry; 2003 Trek 4700 Mtb; 1983 Vitus 979

  21. #21
    Freewheel Medic pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Trying to Ride in the NH Mountains!
    My Bikes
    Vintage Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, & an '83 Santana Tandem
    Posts
    8,967
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    My '83 also has the sharp edge on the crown, but it does slope.



    Here is a Jan '84 frame from ebay. Notice the window in the side of the crown lug.



    Also here is a Jan '85 from ebay with the same window.



    Another view of my '83 with the window in the fork crown.



    Obviously there must have been a change over in the fork crown style at some point after Jan '85. Hope all this is helpful.
    Bob
    Dreaming of Summertime in NH!

    Visit my websites:
    FreeWheelSpa.com orpastorbobnlnh.com

  22. #22
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Posts
    11,789
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
    My '83 also has the sharp edge on the crown, but it does slope.

    Here is a Jan '84 frame from ebay. Notice the window in the side of the crown lug.

    Another view of my '83 with the window in the fork crown.

    Obviously there must have been a change over in the fork crown style at some point after Jan '85. Hope all this is helpful.
    The 'window' crowns have much more slope and I think the top surface has a slight convex to it. The post '85 crown without the window but with the 2 points have much less slope and top surface is very flat.
    WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 2005 Pinarello Dogma; 1991 Paramount PDG 70 Mtb; 1976? AD Vent Noir; 1989 LeMond Maillot Juane F&F; 1993? Basso GAP F&F; 1989 Terry Symmetry; 2003 Trek 4700 Mtb; 1983 Vitus 979

  23. #23
    Keener splendor TimmyT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    New York, NY
    My Bikes
    Nigel Dean Tour Ace, '85 Univega Gran Turismo, Ciocc Designer '84, '90 Fuji Saratoga, Lynskey Litespeed Ti, '69 Peter Cockburn Audax
    Posts
    1,007
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The '89 crown linked early in this thread is completely different from the OP's. The OP's is flat with some slope. The '89 has a full on sloping crown.

    Miamijim is all over it, though.

  24. #24
    Decrepit Member Scooper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    San Francisco California
    My Bikes
    2007 Waterford 953 RS-22
    Posts
    8,516
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    My '87 has a "semi-sloping" crown:



    The first three characters of the serial number describe the frame size from the center of the crank to the top of the seat lug in millimeters, and the fourth character is alphabetic and describes the length of the fork steerer tube (A is the shortest, E is the longest).

    My bike's serial number is 620E WK 87077 (620 mm frame with long steerer, "W" = made at the Waterford facility, "K 87077" = October 1987, 77th frame scheduled for production that month).

    This photo was taken before the repaint:



    After Dr. Deltron did his magic.

    Last edited by Scooper; 05-12-14 at 11:05 AM.
    - Stan

  25. #25
    Senior Member GordoTrek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    My Bikes
    1990 Trek 930 singletrack, 1982 Trek 412, 1993 Trek 2200 Composite,1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Raleigh Grand Prix Porteur, 1975 Raleigh Sports,1984 Schwinn World Sport,
    Posts
    857
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    thanks for all the help guys, so it looks like a late model 86, or maybe an early 87, don't know what the coop is going to do with, im sure they will sell as is, trying to figure out a price now.
    My Bikes- http://imgur.com/a/WHSUo "You should ride a bicycle for twenty minutes every day, unless you're too busy; then you should ride for an hour"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •