keidal

Can anyone tell me when Campagnolo braze-ons were used, for down-tube derailleur shifters, derailleur front and rear cable guides on the bottom bracket and also, top-tube rear brake cable eyelets please ?
I have read that Masi might have offered these Campagnolo braze-ons in the mid 1950's on their frames, as an alternative to using clamp-on derailleur shifters and cable guides on the down-tube; and three cable clips on the top-tube.
I have always been under the wrong [?] impression that Campagnolo braze-ons were introduced in the late 1960's onwards.
Was the Masi Special frame, with Nervex lugs and bottom bracket without piercings on the underside, introduced before 1960, possibly as a prototype or if not, which Masi racing frame was produced in the late 1950's please ?
Does anyone know when the head-tube Masi metal badge, was replaced with a decal badge please - around the 1960's perhaps ?
Thank you for any information you have.

miamijim

This should cover it.....

Hovey Masi

repechage

While Campagnlo did not print annual catalogs, they did try to list everything they series produced, those can be referenced online so you can come up with a window of when the bottom bracket braze ons arrived as a Campagnolo part, they did not catch on quickly. From my memory the first was the "diving bell" cable stop for the rear derailleur, later came the down tube shift lever braze ons, then last the bottom bracket cable guides.

On a mid 50's Masi top tube cable guides and bottom bracket cable guides are very suspect as original. (as are the downtube shifter bosses)

Of the Nervex Pro lugged Masis I have seen in person and listed on Bob Hovey's registry, those are from 1960-61.
The metal headbadge went away with the arrival of the Gran Criterium, a model that went into series production in 1970. (probably introduced in late 1969 and these bikes used ref. 32 lugs as did the Specials of the period) Team bikes that would be sprayed with others' brand's paint of course did not get a badge, think, Tom Simpson or Faema period Merckx bikes.

Bottom bracket braze on cable guides show up in 1971, along with down tube waterbottle mounts, no shift bosses yet. Shifter bosses are later and by special order it appears. Masi Carlsbad had it as an option but not seen frequently till 1976, in Italy, more like 1973-74. My 73 is without, my 74 has them.

JohnDThompson 

The downtube shift lever bosses appear in Catalog 13 (1955), but the cable guides don't appear until Catalog 16 (1969) but may have been available earlier.

AFAIK, Campagnolo only offered braze-on cable guides for the derailleurs; the brake cable braze-ons came from other sources, e.g. Cinelli, as was the "diver's helmet" chain stay cable stop braze-on.

repechage

In Campagnolo Catalog #13 on page 20 there is part #663 a braze on guide for the rear derailleur, and only the rear derailleur the illustration looking very much like the later part that we know so well from the 70's use. There was also part #621 (which I have never seen in use) that I would call a slotted diving bell, as the catalog is in Italian I do not know beyond that it was for a transmission cable.

I really think the OP's frame is a modificati Masi. Not uncommon at all.

keidal

Thank you all for this wealth of information, which is greatly appreciated.
It seems to be the case that Masi frames from the late 1950's to early 1960's were painted or have been repainted in many colours.
Can anyone tell me which colours were available please, as I've been told that champagne and blue were the only colours offered at this time - immediately pre Masi Special and through to early Masi Special ?
Thank you again.

repechage

I have seen Black, opaque green, orange red, silver. Masi did not have a color chart really from my knowledge. When the USA plant started up they had a color list, and that list was smaller than the range offered in Italy. Brian Baylis has or had a Black Nervex pro luged Masi Special. White head tube and seat tube if I recall correctly with chromed head lugs and fork crown, a handsome bike even in the size for a troll. (saying that in jest as Brian pokes fun at his height from time to time)

There is a chance Brian may be at the vintage bicycle show in the infield of the Manhattan Beach Grand Prix on 7/6.

I would go Champagne. Allegedly Faliero's favorite color. But you need to do a bit or research, the seat tube often got special attention with an additional color. I would ask the classic rendezvous google group for examples, a chance one of more of the membership has an original example and might share an image. Too bad Wooljersey.com is gone.

redoray

Hi all —


Reviving an older thread, and specifically in regards to the question about cable guides. Does anyone know when braze-on cable guides were available as an option on Masi GCs — for both Italian and California productions?


Thanks!

repechage

What kind of braze on cable guides?

redoray

Oops -- specifically, top tube cable guides along these lines:

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5091/...68abe3ca_z.jpg


Thanks!

repechage

I have seen those on Vigorelli Masi made bikes from the 80's.
I don't think they were made in the 70's.
My original paint Prestige uses them made in the 80's

redoray

Thanks, repechage!


I have a 1979 Masi Prestige with original paint, and brazed-on top tube cable guides — so they were available then. But not sure how much earlier than that, and on the GC models.


One of the reasons I’m asking: I’ve been considering an Italian-made Masi GC for purchase. It has a plain Fischer fork crown, suggesting 1974-1975. I don’t have any details regarding the numbers from the steering tube. The paint appears to be original — but it has brazed-on top tube cable guides. I'm starting to lean towards thinking it was refinished at some point, with the cable guides added at that time.

repechage

The plain Fischer crown was used at the onset of the GC in 1970, and part of 1971. Many 1972 bikes have a different crown, a one piece with a deep slot that presents as a twin plate crown. 1973 got the twin plate crown. I have an Italian '74 with the twin plate crown as well. Not to say the plain Fischer did not return. Another possible help to divine the build would be the bottom bracket socket windows. They started out "velodrome" shaped, then a bit of a triangle with radiused corners, there is another type but not seen very often that looks more like the headlug cutout, those came later. My 1973 frame has the "triangular" windows. Also, if the bike was sent back to Masi in Milano for repaint, there often was a numeral stamped into the bottom of one of the chainstay spigots of the bottom bracket. If possible, dropping the fork and reviewing any stamps in the steerer can yield the build date of the fork. Not all have this. Other minor details such as the type or lack of windows through the fork leg reinforcements can suggest its order in the scheme of things.
Top tube cable guides on Italian Gran Crieriums as original are not that common. Note that this model was made even after the Prestige was introduced, those bikes don't show up that often and often appear almost the same as a Prestige.
Gran Criteruims have been seen repainted with Pristege graphics too.
There is a continuum but there are exceptions!