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  1. #26
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde1820 View Post
    Do you mean these, the 1991-94 examples from Schwinn's Paramount Design Group:

    1992 Schwinn Paramount (PDG) Series 90, 70, 50 or 40 MTB frameset -- Tange Prestige butted CrMo steel, except Tange base CrMo steel in the 40 series; Shimano LX DX or XT in 40-70, with Suntour XC Pro in 90. Shimano Deore and Diacomp 987 brakes.

    As with any frames, standover height max would be vital for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde1820 View Post
    Many of the "typical" MTB type bikes, though, have far too high of a standover height for me. (Size, medical issues.) As I said, max standover height is sub-28", though shorter is better. Most MTB's in my correct size (ETT) result in 30" standover or taller. No can do, period, sadly. There seem to be lots of great frames in steel for MTB's, back when, but most are just too tall for me to deal with.

    Pretty much relegates me to drop-tube (TT) arrangements, mixte formats, "ladies" frame formats, or some of the shorter hybrid/MTB styles.
    .
    Yes, those are the Paramounts I'm referring to. As an example, my '92 PDG70 has the same frame as the PDG90 except my PDG70 has what one could argue are better Shimnao Deore components versus the Suntour which are on the 90.

    Sizing....the big problem with any conventional sized wheel bike is the wheels themselves. Regardless on it having 700c, 27 or 26" wheels each mandates a minimum crown height which in turn mandates a minimum TT height. The only way around these minimums is to run short sidewall tires which lowers the entire bike or slope the TT. A TT that slopes a total of 4" from the effective will only have a 2" reduction in standover mid tube.

    In the early 90's Miyata's 'Elevation' series bikes were available with 13" frames....their TT's where in-line, if not making a shallow 'V' with the seat stay's!!!

    That being said, the PDG70 I have has a 28.5" stand over measure mid tube with 26" street tires.
    WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 2005 Pinarello Dogma; 1991 Paramount PDG 70 Mtb; 1976? AD Vent Noir; 1989 LeMond Maillot Juane F&F; 1993? Basso GAP F&F; 1989 Terry Symmetry; 2003 Trek 4700 Mtb; 1983 Vitus 979

  2. #27
    Senior Member neo_pop_71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde1820 View Post
    Many of the "typical" MTB type bikes, though, have far too high of a standover height for me. (Size, medical issues.) As I said, max standover height is sub-28", though shorter is better. Most MTB's in my correct size (ETT) result in 30" standover or taller. No can do, period, sadly. There seem to be lots of great frames in steel for MTB's, back when, but most are just too tall for me to deal with.
    Clyde1820,

    I understand your description and needs, that's why I suggested the 15" frame with the sloping top tube.

    1995_Stumpjumper_M2_FS.jpg

    Looking at the top tube/seat tube junction and knowing the rear wheel is 26", the stand over height would be about 27" given that junction is lower than the height of the rear tire. I'd offer you my 14" Cannondale M500 but you're looking for steel. My daughter is riding a '95 12" frame Barracuda right now, the C'dale was for her but I found a mint condition '88 Easton Replex ALX99 in pink/blue (her 2 favorite colors), so now the M500 hangs in the garage. She is 9 years old and not quite 5' tall, so I know there are good steel frames that will fit your needs.

    MaiaCudaA2Z_1.jpgMaia26MTNride.jpg
    I'd rather add more life to my years, than years to my life.

  3. #28
    Quirky Grifter LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde1820 View Post
    Many of the "typical" MTB type bikes, though, have far too high of a standover height for me. (Size, medical issues.) As I said, max standover height is sub-28", though shorter is better. Most MTB's in my correct size (ETT) result in 30" standover or taller. No can do, period, sadly. There seem to be lots of great frames in steel for MTB's, back when, but most are just too tall for me to deal with.

    Pretty much relegates me to drop-tube (TT) arrangements, mixte formats, "ladies" frame formats, or some of the shorter hybrid/MTB styles.



    I've been mulling the idea of mixte frames in a decent steel, as well. Most of these are much more of a road frame than hybrid/MTB, of course. And that's fine. There seem to be a few decent examples over the years, such as the Lotus Excelle or Challenger SX mixte frames from the 1980's. Don't now of other "decent" steel examples from the era.
    Suspension forks to fit a mixte will be tough to come by. Even fork choices with straight steerer tubes are dwindling as the years go by.

    I also rarely see mixtes with more than 56cm top tubes.

    Sorry I missed your ETT requirement before. I'd still find a nice 15" MTB. Mine has 27.5 standover just in front of saddle, 28" center of TT. 56cm ETT. Put a 130mm stem on there and you're in business.





    If cost is no object then there's the Trimble. (or maybe you get REALLY lucky in the used market) Nice and light, 26" standover.

    26Frame

    Last edited by LesterOfPuppets; 06-29-14 at 11:29 AM.
    1980ish Free Spirit Sunbird fixed * 1996 Mongoose IBOC Zero-G * 1997 KHS Comp * 1990-ish Scapin * Lemond Buenos Aires Triple

  4. #29
    Senior Member BaseGuy's Avatar
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    +1 to an old Specialized. GREAT steel frames, crazy cheap on Craigslist.

    I've hung onto my old 1997 Specialize Rockhopper since new. No suspension, just a great, butted steel frame. It's at least two pounds lighter than my similar Trek 830 was (it was stolen). The ride is fabulous, even with a steel fork.

    These bikes go for $75 - $125 in good shape on Craigslist in my area.

  5. #30
    Quirky Grifter LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Barracuda made some NICE light steel frames with a high TT:standover ratio. 14" frame has 22" TT and 26.5" standover.

    A2E and A2V were made of Tange Prestige Ultimate - very nice tubes.
    Last edited by LesterOfPuppets; 06-29-14 at 11:33 PM.
    1980ish Free Spirit Sunbird fixed * 1996 Mongoose IBOC Zero-G * 1997 KHS Comp * 1990-ish Scapin * Lemond Buenos Aires Triple

  6. #31
    Quirky Grifter LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Man, I really need to begin a concentrated search for one of those myself. I'm a big fan of the long and low.

    1980ish Free Spirit Sunbird fixed * 1996 Mongoose IBOC Zero-G * 1997 KHS Comp * 1990-ish Scapin * Lemond Buenos Aires Triple

  7. #32
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    Clyde,

    I have a 1992 Specialized Rockhopper Sport frameset with a 16" seat tube. Since it's a mtb, it takes 26" (559mm) wheels. It was originally selected for my 5'3" ex-wife.

    If you don't mind a step-through frame (which is what I'd recommend anyway), I also have an early 90s Raleigh Technium CT-200 hybrid step-through frameset, mid size (~21"), 700C wheels, 135mm spacing, cantilever brake bosses. Getting mounted won't be an issue, but the bike won't be so cramped, the wheelbase longer and wheels more desirable for a commuter. Attempting to get fitted to a diamond frame will result in a smaller frame, and not many will have the long top tube you need.

    I can let these go at a real good price to someone who can put them to good use.
    “You meet the nicest people on two wheels!"
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  8. #33
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets View Post
    Barracuda made some NICE light steel frames with a high TT:standover ratio. 14" frame has 22" TT and 26.5" standover.

    A2E and A2V were made of Tange Prestige Ultimate - very nice tubes.
    We were a Barracuda dealer back in the day, very nice bikes indeed. The 'Tre Amigos' XX Team Dos Equis is killer....
    WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 2005 Pinarello Dogma; 1991 Paramount PDG 70 Mtb; 1976? AD Vent Noir; 1989 LeMond Maillot Juane F&F; 1993? Basso GAP F&F; 1989 Terry Symmetry; 2003 Trek 4700 Mtb; 1983 Vitus 979

  9. #34
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 2005 Pinarello Dogma; 1991 Paramount PDG 70 Mtb; 1976? AD Vent Noir; 1989 LeMond Maillot Juane F&F; 1993? Basso GAP F&F; 1989 Terry Symmetry; 2003 Trek 4700 Mtb; 1983 Vitus 979

  10. #35
    Quirky Grifter LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Man I love that NOS XX on ebay with the red ano rims and other bits.

    I don't even care if that's alu or post Ross.

    Last edited by LesterOfPuppets; 06-30-14 at 10:51 AM.
    1980ish Free Spirit Sunbird fixed * 1996 Mongoose IBOC Zero-G * 1997 KHS Comp * 1990-ish Scapin * Lemond Buenos Aires Triple

  11. #36
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets View Post
    Man I love that NOS XX on ebay with the red ano rims and other bits.

    I don't even care if that's alu or post Ross.

    Those are awesome bikes...we couldn't keep any Barracuda's in stock. I didn't know there pre/post Ross, I always remembered 'Colorado'.
    WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 2005 Pinarello Dogma; 1991 Paramount PDG 70 Mtb; 1976? AD Vent Noir; 1989 LeMond Maillot Juane F&F; 1993? Basso GAP F&F; 1989 Terry Symmetry; 2003 Trek 4700 Mtb; 1983 Vitus 979

  12. #37
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    Check this out from the Barracuda fan site:

    They then went to see John Parker at Yeti, who was hired to continue with production. Mountain Bike pioneers Chris Herting and Frank "the welder" Wadelton were both working for Yeti at the time and were largely responsible for these early Barracuda bikes. They also built up the first bikes for the race team
    WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 2005 Pinarello Dogma; 1991 Paramount PDG 70 Mtb; 1976? AD Vent Noir; 1989 LeMond Maillot Juane F&F; 1993? Basso GAP F&F; 1989 Terry Symmetry; 2003 Trek 4700 Mtb; 1983 Vitus 979

  13. #38
    Senior Member squirtdad's Avatar
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    clyde....

    my two cents all is IMHO/E and ymmv

    Forget about suspension forks, unless you are really going on trails, not pavement... they cost a lot of energy and most people who ride on streets/roads for commuting lock them up.

    How long will your commute be one way..... this may make a difference. Ie if you are doing 10-15 miles oneway you might consider drops

    as a general statement Japanese bike for from the 80' early 90's make a fantastic base for what you are doing.... Nishiki, Univega, centurion, bridgestone, Miyata, panasonic. many had eyelets and more of a touring geometry.

    here is what I did with a nishiki olympic 12 (purchased new) The seatpost, fork and frame are the only original parts left

    700c wheel conversion, double pivot brakes, 1x8 with thumb shifter, nitto dirt drop stem and handle bar (stem like that may help with your standover...otherwise a mixte of the same era and manufactures may be the ticket) wald baskets

    Last edited by squirtdad; 06-30-14 at 02:58 PM.
    '82 Nishiski commuter/utility
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    looking for: De Rosa 58cm ELOS frame and fork internal cable routing

  14. #39
    Bianchi Goddess Bianchigirll's Avatar
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    I now I am very late to the party but just be sure you get a full ChroMO frame and fork.

    I would look for a upperend Univega like a Via Carisma or Via Montega, but they seem hard to find. If you stumble across a Bianchi Project 3 or 5 they would make a great commuter. My Project 3 does almost anything!
    Bianchis '87 Sport SX, '90 Proto (2), '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '88 Trofeo, '86 Volpe, '89 Axis, '79 Mixte SOLD, '99 Mega Pro XL Ti, '97 Ti Megatube, , '90 something Vento 603,

    Others but still loved,; '80 RIGI, '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '86 Bertoni (sold), '09 Motobecane SS, '98 Hetchins M.O., '09 K2 Mainframe, '89 Trek 2000, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape

  15. #40
    Quirky Grifter LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    This is the best Mixte I've ever ridden. Reynolds 531, DA crank, Shimano DX pedals, Suntour shifters, Superchampion rims... So smooth and fast!

    ETT was 54cm, well below you're desired ETT, however. I think a 58cm ETT mixte might be kinda hard to come by.

    DSC_0004 by Lester Luallin, on Flickr
    1980ish Free Spirit Sunbird fixed * 1996 Mongoose IBOC Zero-G * 1997 KHS Comp * 1990-ish Scapin * Lemond Buenos Aires Triple

  16. #41
    Senior Member squirtdad's Avatar
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    another thought.....depending on budget

    Soma mixte.... you can get your stand over and reach with this one

    Buena Vista Frame Set | SOMA Fabrications
    '82 Nishiski commuter/utility
    '83 Torpado Super Strada ... cafe commuter
    '89 Miyata 1400
    Soma rush Fixie
    '78 Univega gran turismo (son's Fixie/SS)
    06 Haro x3 (son's bmx)
    Electra cruiser (wife's bike)

    looking for: De Rosa 58cm ELOS frame and fork internal cable routing

  17. #42
    Quirky Grifter LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Hey that's pretty cool. Didn't know anyone made big mixtes. The 58cm Buena Vista certainly looks like the way to go.
    1980ish Free Spirit Sunbird fixed * 1996 Mongoose IBOC Zero-G * 1997 KHS Comp * 1990-ish Scapin * Lemond Buenos Aires Triple

  18. #43
    Senior Member neo_pop_71's Avatar
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    Seeing that Mixte made me think of my old dirt jumper... maybe you should consider buying a dirt jumper bike.

    Most D.J. bikes have the following features:

    * - steel frames with extreme sloping top tube

    * - front suspension

    * - powerful disc brakes with great stopping power

    * - overbuilt wheels that are ideal for city streets (less maintenance, see below)

    * - high handlebar to seat post ratio for comfortable upright riding position

    Also, keep in mind that since you are running disc brakes instead of rim brakes you don't need to worry about your wheels being "true" since you have no rim brake pads to rub... allows for greater abuse without the mandatory wheel truing that usually comes from riding on city streets.

    This is a great example of a very good value that would fit the O.P. needs, it has a medium frame with appx. 23" stand over.

    Azonic Steelhead - $200

    Azonic_Steelhead.jpg

    Azonic Steelhead
    Medium frame
    Shimano XT cranks
    Shimano Deore LX disc brakes
    Shimano Deore XT front and rear derailleur + brake lever/shifter
    Mavic Crossride wheels
    Manitou Minute 100-130mm adjustable fork
    9 speed cassette in the rear, two sprockets up front (granny gear setup for climbing)

    It's just sitting in my storage unit and I want to get rid of it ASAP as I am moving.

    *edit*
    Here are some additional frame specs for the O.P. to consider, please note the effective top tube height is only 21.7 inches with a 13.5 inch seat tube. Even with your 28 inch maximum stand over height, you'll have 6 inches to spare plus all the other frame benefits listed. Here are the specs from Azonic but these specs are typical of most dirt jumper frames, so there is no need to be brand specific in your search but Azonic is the best in my opinion for overall comfort.

    Features:

    4130 Chromoly tubing
    IS chain guide and disk brake mount
    1/4” drop outs
    Adjustable brake mount
    Removable derailleur hanger

    Specifications:

    • Head Angle - 71
    • Seat Angle - 72.5
    • Chainstay Length - 16.5” (420 mm)
    • Wheel Base - 41.5” (1043 mm)
    • Eff T.Tube - 21.7” (554 mm)
    • Seat Post Diameter - 27.2 mm
    • Seat Tube - 13.5”
    • H Tube Length - 28.6 mm
    • Bottom Bracket - 68 mm
    Last edited by neo_pop_71; 06-30-14 at 05:14 PM. Reason: added frame specs
    I'd rather add more life to my years, than years to my life.

  19. #44
    Bianchi Goddess Bianchigirll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets View Post
    Hey that's pretty cool. Didn't know anyone made big mixtes. The 58cm Buena Vista certainly looks like the way to go.
    I have been sort of dreaming about that one for years.
    Bianchis '87 Sport SX, '90 Proto (2), '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '88 Trofeo, '86 Volpe, '89 Axis, '79 Mixte SOLD, '99 Mega Pro XL Ti, '97 Ti Megatube, , '90 something Vento 603,

    Others but still loved,; '80 RIGI, '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '86 Bertoni (sold), '09 Motobecane SS, '98 Hetchins M.O., '09 K2 Mainframe, '89 Trek 2000, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape

  20. #45
    Senior Member Clyde1820's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
    my two cents all is IMHO/E and ymmv

    Forget about suspension forks, unless you are really going on trails, not pavement... they cost a lot of energy and most people who ride on streets/roads for commuting lock them up.
    I'm prepared for some energy loss, for the gain in comfort. Much prefer a lockout feature, if I'm going to go that route. Of course, if a decent fork an be durable but afford a reasonably plush ride, I'm open to it. Most of my experience the past 15yrs has been with relatively stiff aluminum frames with very stiff forks. I abhor the "road buzz" that's typical with these platforms, by comparison to how little occurs on quality steel framed bikes.


    How long will your commute be one way..... this may make a difference. Ie if you are doing 10-15 miles oneway you might consider drops
    I might consider drop bars, but only if I can have it comparatively more upright than the typical drop bar arrangement. I dislike the straight up position of outright comfort/hybrid type bikes, but I simply can't do full drops anymore. (Gettin' old is grand.)

    The commute distance will be < 15mi one way. Longer, weekend rides will be up to 50mi or so. I appreciate the question of changing hand positions related to comfort. But there's my back and shoulders to consider as well, as with anyone. No can do, "big" and traditional drops.


    as a general statement Japanese bike for from the 80' early 90's make a fantastic base for what you are doing.... Nishiki, Univega, centurion, bridgestone, Miyata, panasonic. many had eyelets and more of a touring geometry.
    Slowly, I'm digging into these and trying to identify the good ones. Plenty of schlock out there. Some years with some models were, though, produced with great steels and are justifiably known for their quality. I'm just unaware of which ones are the "gems" at this point, from the standpoint of build quality.

    Have seen ads for a couple of Lotus Excelle and Challenger mixte bikes, but have yet to see one up for sale for anything less than $500. They don't come up that often. And nobody seems to want to let go a Lotus Challenger SX mixte for sub-$100, these days. Can't imagine why.


    here is what I did with a nishiki olympic 12 (purchased new) The seatpost, fork and frame are the only original parts left ... 700c wheel conversion, double pivot brakes, 1x8 with thumb shifter, nitto dirt drop stem and handle bar (stem like that may help with your standover...otherwise a mixte of the same era and manufactures may be the ticket)
    That format can work. So long as it's mixte or a low TT.

    Dislike shifters on the downtube or stem, myself. Would want to change over to a different shifter arrangement, on whatever I do get.

  21. #46
    Still learning oddjob2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde1820 View Post
    Have seen ads for a couple of Lotus Excelle and Challenger mixte bikes, but have yet to see one up for sale for anything less than $500. They don't come up that often. And nobody seems to want to let go a Lotus Challenger SX mixte for sub-$100, these days. Can't imagine why.
    I've got one of each available, would be happy to sell as frame and fork if you want to do a build.
    Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving. Albert Einstein
    2014 Additions: 1985 Trek 560, 1992 Trek Multitrack 700 (my 2nd), 1994 Trek Carbon 2200, Peugeot PX-10, 1981 Schwinn Voyager, 1989 Bridgestone RB-1

  22. #47
    Senior Member Clyde1820's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
    Soma mixte.... you can get your stand over and reach with this one

    Buena Vista Frame Set | SOMA Fabrications

    Have been drooling over that one for some weeks, now. In the format, it's a nice one. A 58cm perhaps. At 8lbs, it's no flyweight, but it'll do. Sure beats a lot of the 1970-80's stuff that's out there.

  23. #48
    Still learning oddjob2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde1820 View Post
    Have been drooling over that one for some weeks, now. In the format, it's a nice one. A 58cm perhaps. At 8lbs, it's no flyweight, but it'll do. Sure beats a lot of the 1970-80's stuff that's out there.

    Not impressed with the lugless TIG welding.
    Last edited by oddjob2; 07-01-14 at 07:11 AM.
    Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving. Albert Einstein
    2014 Additions: 1985 Trek 560, 1992 Trek Multitrack 700 (my 2nd), 1994 Trek Carbon 2200, Peugeot PX-10, 1981 Schwinn Voyager, 1989 Bridgestone RB-1

  24. #49
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    I would like to ride a 90's GT Karakoram K2 ...nice vintage MTB !

  25. #50
    Quirky Grifter LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde1820 View Post
    Have been drooling over that one for some weeks, now. In the format, it's a nice one. A 58cm perhaps. At 8lbs, it's no flyweight, but it'll do. Sure beats a lot of the 1970-80's stuff that's out there.
    Ouch that's heavy. I think starting with a 14" Barracuda would be the best way to meet your reqs. The a2v and a2e are both around 25 lbs complete in 1998. 26.5" is gonna feel nice and low. 22" TT with 20mm longer stem than you'd regularly run on a 23" should net the reach you need.
    1980ish Free Spirit Sunbird fixed * 1996 Mongoose IBOC Zero-G * 1997 KHS Comp * 1990-ish Scapin * Lemond Buenos Aires Triple

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