Bike Forums

Bike Forums (http://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php)
-   Classic & Vintage (http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/)
-   -   Shimano Alfine woes.... 8spd IGH (http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/957118-shimano-alfine-woes-8spd-igh.html)

Lascauxcaveman 08-09-14 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhm (Post 17019670)
One of us should design the correct anti-turn washers (and have a get 3d printed) so we can run these hubs with a proper to tube and seat stay cable run. That would solve some of the trouble, I think.

I was thinking about this when I bought the anti-rotation bits for mine (the only thing I didn't get with the kit) I noticed they make several different kinds/angles, and was wondering if you just bought the correct "wrong" ones, if it would make that little receiver arm line up correctly with the seat stay. I haven't done the math, but someone with a better grasp of basic geometry could figure this out.

Bianchigirll 08-09-14 04:55 AM

I got several washers with the parts kit but had to buy the fancy verticle washers. IIRC I did fool around mixing and matching washers but no combo really seemed to give a good angle with the seatstay routing.

pastorbobnlnh 08-09-14 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Hood (Post 17019960)
I'd love to have that setup on a recumbent trike. On a trike you never become unstable at low speed, so if you've got the gears you can sit there spinning at 90 RPM while you crawl forward at 1 mph.

Actually, I've never found stability to be an issue in the super low gears. I did, however, pedal the rear wheel out of the dropouts :twitchy: the first time I took it on a trail ride. I came to a short steep section with a large root crossing the trail. I figured this was a perfect spot to try the low-low-low (sounds like a dance) and down shifted. The front tire bumped the root, I applied force to the pedals, and the wheel popped out! I still laugh about it.

Lascauxcaveman 08-09-14 10:46 AM

Back to the Alfine 8 shifting woes; I was fiddling with mine this week, ditching the ridiculous inverted M-bars and going with a brand new J-tek shifter on rando bars. But just before that, I was riding it around and noticed that mine, too, had developed some iffy shifting, particularly in gears 5, 6 & 7. Felt almost like a mild chain skip, but of course it wasn't. "OMG! BG's bike has given my bike the cooties over the internet!"

Then, while setting up the rear brake on the bike, I noticed the rear axel wasn't fully tight within the hub. Either the PO or I had at one point loosened the locknut over the NDS cone and it had backed out a wee bit, giving the axel just a hair of wobble. Tightened it back up and that seemed to take care of the bad shifting.

wahoonc 08-09-14 11:59 AM

I just had a similar issue with a Nexus 7, in my case the lock nuts were loose, along with some iffy cable adjustment. Both corrected, along with a new inner cable (different issue) and everything now works like it should. FWIW this is a pretty high mileage bike.

Aaron :)

Bianchigirll 08-09-14 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lascauxcaveman (Post 17020775)
Back to the Alfine 8 shifting woes; I was fiddling with mine this week, ditching the ridiculous inverted M-bars and going with a brand new J-tek shifter on rando bars. But just before that, I was riding it around and noticed that mine, too, had developed some iffy shifting, particularly in gears 5, 6 & 7. Felt almost like a mild chain skip, but of course it wasn't. "OMG! BG's bike has given my bike the cooties over the internet!"

Then, while setting up the rear brake on the bike, I noticed the rear axel wasn't fully tight within the hub. Either the PO or I had at one point loosened the locknut over the NDS cone and it had backed out a wee bit, giving the axel just a hair of wobble. Tightened it back up and that seemed to take care of the bad shifting.

I beg your pardon? My Bianchi did no such thing, she is a very clean girl. Just to be certain however I put her on a strict 8pm curfew and changed my forum password.

Bianchigirll 08-19-14 02:35 PM

1 Attachment(s)
SUCCESS!!!!!

I after rerouting the cable a few weeks ago and going for a test stroll around the neighborhood, I finally took the Boarala out for her first ever real ride. When I first built it I was mostly doing errand type stuff with her but today I gave her a good 25 mile shake down cruze.

She is heavy! Between the IGH and the dynamo that is a lot of weight to drag up and down the stairs. While the setup may make it look small I can actually only lift the front wheel about 2-3", a little much for a road bike but considering this is a Celeste blooded 'cross machine I think the fit is good. The handling was just what I would expect for a Bianchi but I am not sure if it was the weight or the slightly bigger tire than I am used to that made it seem a bit sluggish at times.

I don't know how many of you have an IGH with the backwards Jtek but my knees hate it!! Despite trying to keep in mind that shifting was backwards I seemed to find myself shifting to a bigger gear when climbing and then as I started down..... You got it! I jammed that shifter down and almost dislocated my knees!

The one town I ride through put some oil and chip on a road that was getting pretty beat up so I even got to do a little gravel grinding. I may load this in the car and head down the road to a rail trail Thurs and give it a good 20 mile path ride.

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...5&d=1408480480


http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=400355

Lascauxcaveman 08-19-14 03:01 PM

It's taken me a while to get used to that backwards business with the Jtek, too. :P

noglider 08-19-14 09:08 PM

So you pull up for a higher gear?
[MENTION=159681]Bianchigirll[/MENTION], how do you like the hybrid drivetrain? Do you use the FD much at all?

As you may know, my Bianchi Volpe is extremely heavy but also versatile. I call it my SUV. It also has a dynamo hub, which I adore.

Here it is, towing an office chair to my mother's place.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-R...2012.08.36.jpg

Bianchigirll 08-20-14 05:23 AM

The 'cassette joint' that changes the gears rotates counter clockwise to shift into a higher gear so the cable needs to be pulled, which means pulling up on the barend.

The hybrid set up is pretty funky. I blocked out the granny because it is pretty useless around here. The larger rings are (IIRC) 48/52 sort of a halfstep gearing I found I did use the front quite a bit. I found at times that the 'sweet gear' seemed to fall between gears so splitting the gear seemed to work out pretty good.

Cassette joint, the cable attaches at the hook looking thing by the yellow dot.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/images/c...tsIMG_5644.JPG


OH That is sort of what the Volpe was built for, to do a little bit of everything.

noglider 08-20-14 09:58 AM

Good explanation and picture.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bianchigirll (Post 17053667)
OH That is sort of what the Volpe was built for, to do a little bit of everything.

Yup, I call it my SUV. With the lights, rack, fenders, etc., it weighs about 34 pounds! But it's great for almost everything I do. Sometimes I pass or at least keep up with roadies, so I can pat myself on the back for doing so well on such a heavy bike.

icepick_trotsky 09-29-14 11:01 AM

Threads like this kind of scare me off the idea of an IGH at all. I love the utility, but the maintenance seems like a real headache. Or am I making a bigger deal of it than it really is?

Bianchigirll 09-29-14 11:09 AM

I don't think the maintenance is any worse than any other bike. My issues all stem from setup. The frame I chose to use had vertical dropouts, which while not perfect can be used with the correct anti rotation washers. Next the frame has 'high wire' cable routing ie all cables run along the top tube. The RD cable runs down the right seatstay so it made for a lot of extra tension on the shifter cable.

Scour your local CL and garage sales and grab an old 3spd and give IGH a try.

icepick_trotsky 09-29-14 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bianchigirll (Post 17172007)
I don't think the maintenance is any worse than any other bike. My issues all stem from setup.

That's good to know. I'm starting a daily commuter project, and am going back and forth between an 8sp IGH and a 1x8 with a derailleur. The dropouts on the frame are horizontal, so either way should work.

Is there any reason that you went with the Alfine over the Nexus 8? Isn't the only difference that the Alfine accepts disc brakes? Thanks BG.

Bianchigirll 09-29-14 12:17 PM

No reason other than price. I bought prebuilt wheels and I like these with the Salsa Delgado rims. The front is a shipmano dynamo hub.

icepick_trotsky 09-29-14 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bianchigirll (Post 17172217)
No reason other than price. I bought prebuilt wheels and I like these with the Salsa Delgado rims. The front is a shipmano dynamo hub.

Where did you find them? The only prebuilt IGH wheels I seem to stumble over are 26".

Italuminium 09-29-14 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh (Post 16905771)
Triple cranks (44-34-24) + SRAM Dual Drive IGH 3 speed hub + 9 speed cassette (11-34), so 9X3X3=81. :twitchy: Let's just say there is lots of redundancy. :rolleyes:

You almost had me using the Lord's name in vain there, Pastor. So many gears. Which of the systems do you use the most? Do you use the IGH as a sort of low gear box, as on 4x4's?

Bianchigirll 09-29-14 12:51 PM

eBikeStop.com They don't have the ones I bought, that was 4 or so years ago, but they do have a pair. Search @ eBikeStop.com=

fender1 09-29-14 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icepick_trotsky (Post 17171983)
Threads like this kind of scare me off the idea of an IGH at all. I love the utility, but the maintenance seems like a real headache. Or am I making a bigger deal of it than it really is?

I agree. It was what killed IGH for me. I found that changing a rear flat, at night, in a cold rain was WAY more difficult for me, than on a "normal" derailleur equipped bike. I had converted a Schwinn World Voyageur to an Alfine, 8spd IGH commuter. Getting the shifter cable re-attached with numb fingers was a real PIA. Then, having to line up the indicator marks in the dark so it would shift correctly and another 13 miles to get home and I was done.

I have never had that level of difficulty fixing a flat before or since. I think the "less maintinece" aspect of IGH is overstated. YMMV.

Lascauxcaveman 09-29-14 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icepick_trotsky (Post 17171983)
Threads like this kind of scare me off the idea of an IGH at all. I love the utility, but the maintenance seems like a real headache.

Actually, the lack of maintenance needed is a major selling point touted by the hard-core IGHers out there. I've only got a couple hundred miles on mine so far, so we'll see. Mine will be my main ride this winter; it'll get plenty of miles in wet conditions. And the setup isn't all that tricky, if you can avoid sharp bends in the cable routing and incorporate an inline shifter cable adjuster to keep the cable length fine-tuned. It really has to be exact.

Fender is correct that a flat is a bigger PITA than on a derailleur equipped bike. I wouldn't set up an IGH bike with less-than-robust tires.

pastorbobnlnh 09-29-14 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Italuminium (Post 17172335)
You almost had me using the Lord's name in vain there, Pastor. So many gears. Which of the systems do you use the most? Do you use the IGH as a sort of low gear box, as on 4x4's?

Now I wouldn't want that! :innocent:

Depends on the terrain which is not surprising. What I find myself doing is deciding what front chainring is best suited, and then using the IGH as a L-N-H depending on need. I must say I've rarely used the L-L-L combination, but there are a few places where it put to use.

This was more an exercise of could it be done. Over the winter this bike is due for a complete tear-down, cleaning, and overhaul. Originally it came equipped with a single 33T chainring. For a couple years I ran it with a double (44-34) and I like that the best. 34T for dirt roads and trails. And 44T for pavement and the rail trail.

noglider 09-29-14 01:06 PM

3-speed hubs are low maintenance, for sure. I haven't used 7- or 8-speed hubs except in test rides, so I don't have real experience, but it seems they are more trouble. They may be durable, but when they give trouble, it's big trouble. I'm an ace at removing and replacing a rear wheel with an AW hub, having done it hundreds of times. Not sure if other hubs are trickier. They probably are.

icepick_trotsky 09-29-14 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lascauxcaveman (Post 17172364)
Actually, the lack of maintenance needed is a major selling point touted by the hard-core IGHers out there. I've only got a couple hundred miles on mine so far, so we'll see. Mine will be my main ride this winter; it'll get plenty of miles in wet conditions. And the setup isn't all that tricky, if you can avoid sharp bends in the cable routing and incorporate an inline shifter cable adjuster to keep the cable length fine-tuned. It really has to be exact.

Fender is correct that a flat is a bigger PITA than on a derailleur equipped bike. I wouldn't set up an IGH bike with less-than-robust tires.

It seems like it depends what your maintenance preferences (and aversions) are. Derailleur drivetrains require more frequent attention, though it's less complicated, whereas IGHs may require less frequent, but more complicated work.

Good point about the tire choice.

Bad Lag 09-29-14 01:38 PM

I have had no trouble with my Alfine 8 speed IGH. It has required zero maintenance since I got it and it has quite a few miles on it. As far as I can tell, no maintenance is required for a long, long time.

The only issue these have when retrofitting them onto a bike is cable routing. You need a low friction path from the shifter to the hub. Friction will not stop up-shifting but can delay/slow (or prevent, if it's really bad) down-shifting.

I think Shimano, or someone else, should offer a set of clamp-on cable guides or cable stops that facilitate the retrofitting of these hubs on non-IGH bikes.


It is really sweet having 8 useable speeds at your disposal, as opposed to just three, as on my wife's bike.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:22 AM.