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-   -   Shimano Alfine woes.... 8spd IGH (http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/957118-shimano-alfine-woes-8spd-igh.html)

Bianchigirll 07-03-14 11:52 AM

Shimano Alfine woes.... 8spd IGH
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hello everyone. I know the IGH crowd isn't big here and mostly into old Sturmeys but I ran into an issue with my IGH this morning. I have not been riding in some time I bet this poor bike has been hanging for over 2 years. I cleaned it up yesterday checked the shifting and brakes and everything seemed OK. I took it out this morning and when shifting through the gears ( Jtek barend) the 5 or 6th gear didn't seem to want to catch. All the other gears felt fine this one just felt like when your chain runs 'between' the cogs on the FW. I didn't go more than a few blocks trying to shift then back pedal a little then shift to that gear again but to no avail. When I was rolling up to my flat the gear seemed to be catching but in a lower gear than the next one down.

Any Ideas? I am hoping that it is just a little gummed up from sitting. I doubt there is more than two hundred miles on the hub. Oh it is a 'Red Stripe' (Yeah Beer!!) if that makes a difference. I will repost this on the Yahoo IGH group tomorrow I just wanted to post here before I get back into the 100 email day trap over there.

Thanks!!


http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...8&d=1404409797

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=390998

Reynolds 07-03-14 11:59 AM

Cable friction is critical on these hubs. I'd start by checking out if cable moves freely.

pastorbobnlnh 07-03-14 12:01 PM

BG,

Look at you with a hybrid drive train! I'm very impressed. :D You go girll! Sorry, but I can't help one little bit other than to guess the cable needs adjusting. But that is very much a guess.

WNG 07-03-14 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reynolds (Post 16905464)
Cable friction is critical on these hubs. I'd start by checking out if cable moves freely.

+1 on the cables. I've only worked on one or two Alfine 8 speed IGHs while at the bike shop. But remembered the shift cable had to be just right for it to operate properly. I recall the cable 'disc' at the hub must be mounted right to turn without restriction.

Bianchigirll 07-03-14 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reynolds (Post 16905464)
Cable friction is critical on these hubs. I'd start by checking out if cable moves freely.

That is bane of this setup since the cable comes down the seat stay. I think it slipped in the clamping bolt again

Quote:

Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh (Post 16905467)
BG,

Look at you with a hybrid drive train! I'm very impressed. :D You go girll! Sorry, but I can't help one little bit other than to guess the cable needs adjusting. But that is very much a guess.

Thanks! It isn't quite as hybrid as it looks the RD is just a tensioner. I would love a Sachs or Sturmey setup with the IGH and 7spd FW/cassette thingie.

Dan Burkhart 07-03-14 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bianchigirll (Post 16905437)
Hello everyone. I know the IGH crowd isn't big here and mostly into old Sturmeys but I ran into an issue with my IGH this morning. I have not been riding in some time I bet this poor bike has been hanging for over 2 years. I cleaned it up yesterday checked the shifting and brakes and everything seemed OK. I took it out this morning and when shifting through the gears ( Jtek barend) the 5 or 6th gear didn't seem to want to catch. All the other gears felt fine this one just felt like when your chain runs 'between' the cogs on the FW. I didn't go more than a few blocks trying to shift then back pedal a little then shift to that gear again but to no avail. When I was rolling up to my flat the gear seemed to be catching but in a lower gear than the next one down.

Any Ideas? I am hoping that it is just a little gummed up from sitting. I doubt there is more than two hundred miles on the hub. Oh it is a 'Red Stripe' (Yeah Beer!!) if that makes a difference. I will repost this on the Yahoo IGH group tomorrow I just wanted to post here before I get back into the 100 email day trap over there.

Thanks!!


http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...8&d=1404409797

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=390998

What do you have in the way of cable adjustment. I know the J-Tek does not have a barrel adjuster. Did you put an inline adjuster in it? (I'm assuming you did the build?)
Binding cables or maladjustment are most frequently the culprit. I'm sure you know all about aligning the marks at the cassette joint in 4th gear and all that.

Bianchigirll 07-03-14 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart (Post 16905671)
What do you have in the way of cable adjustment. I know the J-Tek does not have a barrel adjuster. Did you put an inline adjuster in it? (I'm assuming you did the build?)
Binding cables or maladjustment are most frequently the culprit. I'm sure you know all about aligning the marks at the cassette joint in 4th gear and all that.

There is a inline adjuster and some times I wish I had used two. Look at the TT right over the 'hi' in Bianchi and you can almost see it.


While I was digging in my tool kit to find a few wrenches to tighten the clamp air started hissing out around the valve hole! :mad:

pastorbobnlnh 07-03-14 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bianchigirll (Post 16905643)
...Thanks! It isn't quite as hybrid as it looks the RD is just a tensioner. I would love a Sachs or Sturmey setup with the IGH and 7spd FW/cassette thingie.

Then you'd like my Cannondale. :p I know you can't tell from this wide view, but you are looking at an 81 speed drive train. :eek:

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...psupflukas.jpg

Triple cranks (44-34-24) + SRAM Dual Drive IGH 3 speed hub + 9 speed cassette (11-34), so 9X3X3=81. :twitchy: Let's just say there is lots of redundancy. :rolleyes:

Bianchigirll 07-03-14 02:11 PM

I bet you can be spinning at 500 RPM and still be standing still LOL

That is a bit much for me. even around here the triple is a bit redundant but I had it and couldn't decide between a big 30 ring or something in the mid 40s.

John E 07-03-14 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bianchigirll (Post 16905643)
... It isn't quite as hybrid as it looks the RD is just a tensioner. I would love a Sachs or Sturmey setup with the IGH and 7spd FW/cassette thingie.

Yeah, a 168-speed 3 x 7 x 8 hybrid transmission would be pretty cool. Someone would finally outdo the 90-speed Hetchins Charlie Harding had in his west Los Angeles shop in ca. 1970.

Bianchigirll 07-03-14 02:30 PM

Tube replaced cable tightened and adjusted. Seems to shift OK in the stand I'll roll her for a test after tomorrows walk.


Thanks for help everyone.

Dan Burkhart 07-03-14 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John E (Post 16905921)
Yeah, a 168-speed 3 x 7 x 8 hybrid transmission would be pretty cool. Someone would finally outdo the 90-speed Hetchins Charlie Harding had in his west Los Angeles shop in ca. 1970.

That's already been out done. My Quetzal recumbent came from the factory with 105 gears. They also offered a model with 120.
Since my drive train renovation, it now sports a mere 70 speeds.

Lascauxcaveman 07-03-14 02:52 PM

Subscribed; I am currently in the process of converting my Lambert to run an Alfine 8 speed.

Anyone got a surplus Jtek shifter they want to get rid of? That crazy Shimano shifter looks like a Saturn orbiter landing craft, and won't fit the the bars I like, either.

Bianchigirll 07-03-14 03:11 PM

I thought JTek was still in business.

OMG This changes everything... back to the drawing board!!

http://jtekengineering.com/images/Pr...eroBrake-2.jpg

pastorbobnlnh 07-03-14 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bianchigirll (Post 16906069)
I thought JTek was still in business.

OMG This changes everything... back to the drawing board!!

http://jtekengineering.com/images/Pr...eroBrake-2.jpg

Is that really a brake lever and a shifter? A new type of brifter. :p

qualla 07-04-14 09:31 AM

In addition to cable adjustment there's one other thing that might be causing you trouble. The hex bolt on JTEK shifter itself can get just the least bit loose. A quick quarter turn can make all the difference in shifting.

rhm 07-04-14 09:53 AM

I agree with the remarks about cable movement and adjustment. But I'll add that these hubs with better when they work frequently. Ride it around for a week or two, shifting a lot, and it will get better. Uh, maybe.

Bianchigirll 07-04-14 10:31 AM

ARRRGH! Still not right. I think I'll drop by a shop tomorrow and grab some housing and change the cable routing. I'll have to run a piece from the seat lug area under the BB and back to the stop. I'll also look for the directions and make sure I get it adjusted right.

Dan Burkhart 07-04-14 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bianchigirll (Post 16908123)
ARRRGH! Still not right. I think I'll drop by a shop tomorrow and grab some housing and change the cable routing. I'll have to run a piece from the seat lug area under the BB and back to the stop. I'll also look for the directions and make sure I get it adjusted right.

I can't make out much detail from your photo, but are there any tight bends in the cable housing in the handlebar area? I used to sell a low step through model bike with nexus 8 hubs, and found several of them would not shift properly. I tracked the problem down to tight cable routing, and solved the problem with a bit of re-routing and teflon coated cables.

southpawboston 07-04-14 11:29 AM

BG, I don't think you mentioned this, but did you check the little yellow adjustment indicator on the hub itself? OR did you just adjust the cable based on shifting "feel"? My wife has the red-band IGH8 with a JTEK bar-end, and it shifts just fine. However, the adjustment is a little wonky, and drifts after awhile. When you're in 4th gear, the two little yellow lines should line up on the hub. This indicates proper adjustment. For my wife's bike, as long as the adjustment is made this way, the hub shifts fine with the JTEK.

Anton

Bianchigirll 08-08-14 05:57 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I put a little time into a few lingering unfinished projects today including this. I changed the cable routing and got rid of the funky S bend the cable had to make coming down the back of the seat stay. I ran a piece of housing down the stop on the TT under the FD and back to the hub. I then correctly adjusted it, in 4th gear (I had totally screwed that up last time Thanks SouthPawBoston) and a quick test ride seems to show it working correctly. I'll try and take it for a longer spin tomorrow.

That reverse shifting is hard to get used to.

This is what I got rid of. I wish I had a better pic. See how I had to run the cable down the seatstay to the stop and loop it around?

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...4&d=1407542190





http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=398194

rhm 08-08-14 07:23 PM

One of us should design the correct anti-turn washers (and have a get 3d printed) so we can run these hubs with a proper to tube and seat stay cable run. That would solve some of the trouble, I think.

Whatever's wrong with your hub, BG, I'm pretty sure it's cable movement or cable adjustment to blame.

wesmamyke 08-08-14 08:32 PM

[QUOTE=rhm;17019670]One of us should design the correct anti-turn washers (and have a get 3d printed) so we can run these hubs with a proper to tube and seat stay cable run. That would solve some of the trouble, I think.

Shimano does make another set of axle washers, I think for seatstay/toptube routing.

Edit: Actually looks like they make 3 or 4 different sets of washers, although some of them seem to be for the Di2 version only? Anyhow they make at least 2 versions for vertical and horizontal dropouts.

Edit: This thread on mtbr.com has some good info about switching the washers around and some other tweaks to make the cable routing better: http://forums.mtbr.com/internal-gear...ne-468379.html

John Hood 08-08-14 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh (Post 16905771)
Then you'd like my Cannondale. :p I know you can't tell from this wide view, but you are looking at an 81 speed drive train. :eek:

Triple cranks (44-34-24) + SRAM Dual Drive IGH 3 speed hub + 9 speed cassette (11-34), so 9X3X3=81. :twitchy: Let's just say there is lots of redundancy. :rolleyes:

I'd love to have that setup on a recumbent trike. On a trike you never become unstable at low speed, so if you've got the gears you can sit there spinning at 90 RPM while you crawl forward at 1 mph.

rhm 08-08-14 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wesmamyke (Post 17019794)
Quote:

Originally Posted by rhm (Post 17019670)
One of us should design the correct anti-turn washers (and have a get 3d printed) so we can run these hubs with a proper to tube and seat stay cable run. That would solve some of the trouble, I think.

Shimano does make another set of axle washers, I think for seatstay/toptube routing.

Edit: Actually looks like they make 3 or 4 different sets of washers, although some of them seem to be for the Di2 version only? Anyhow they make at least 2 versions for vertical and horizontal dropouts.

Edit: This thread on mtbr.com has some good info about switching the washers around and some other tweaks to make the cable routing better: Anyone try seatstay cable routing with Alfine?

I think I have three matched pairs of these washers, but none of them works for the seat stay routing. I guess I should keep looking....


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