Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-08-14, 06:50 PM   #1
smontanaro 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Evanston, IL
Bikes:
Posts: 2,267
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Is this a common problem with Campy brake bodies?

Working slowly on dismantling the bits that came off my new Masi. I came across something I'd not seen in my brief history with this stuff. The broken bit was captive to the double layers of handlebar tape. As there was no evidence the bike had been ridden in years, I'm guessing this was that way for quite awhile. Are such breaks (no pun intended) common with Campy brakes?

Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2014-07-08 19.06.16.jpg (91.7 KB, 127 views)
File Type: jpg 2014-07-08 19.05.55.jpg (88.5 KB, 127 views)
__________________
Please contact me via email, not PMs.
The Bike is Better than the Rider,
Medici, RRB, Trek 520, Jim Redcay, Conti, Schwinn Volare, Atala Super Professional,
something unnamed,
Trek 660
and projects: Schwinn Super Sport, Peugeot PX-10, Lipstick on a Pig
smontanaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-14, 07:08 PM   #2
Bandera 
Ding!
 
Bandera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Texas Hill Country
Bikes:
Posts: 3,960
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by smontanaro View Post
Are such breaks (no pun intended) common with Campy brakes?
Crash damage, or Godzilla tightened the lever onto the handlebar w/ a breaker bar.
Not good.
The levers are not the only bits & bobs that took a really bad whack, time for a thorough check of all alignment on the frameset.
Bars bent?

-Bandera
__________________
'74 Raleigh International - '77 Trek TX900FG - '92 Vitus 979 - '10 Merckx EMX-3- '11 Soma Stanyan

Last edited by Bandera; 07-08-14 at 07:13 PM.
Bandera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-14, 07:21 PM   #3
rootboy 
Senior Member
 
rootboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wherever
Bikes:
Posts: 15,889
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Never seen one break before. But I agree that it looks like it took a sideways hit some time in its life. Cast alloy. Kind of brittle.
rootboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-14, 07:24 PM   #4
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 10,934
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 94 Post(s)
Ouch, as Bandera said, time to double check more.
This is not common.
You should be able to locate a replacement, probably a whole lever will be cheaper than just the body.
I don't know if the frame got bent, best to check anyway.
But I would check to see if the handlebars are tweaked.
repechage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-14, 07:32 PM   #5
Otis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 2,638
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
I've seen an awful lot of them with small splits in the top corners, but a big chunk like that is probably from a crash.
__________________
Flickr stuff:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/54616231@N04/
Otis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-14, 07:33 PM   #6
smontanaro 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Evanston, IL
Bikes:
Posts: 2,267
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
One of the levers has a scratch, but that's not at all unusual. The bars (Cinelli Giro d'Italia) seem straight to me (my RRB had an obviously bent bar - this one is straight). The paint on the frame is original and in excellent condition. If the lever body was damaged in a collision, it must have hit it just so. If it's from an impact, my guess is it's more likely the bike fell over.

This wouldn't happen if the clamp was just overtightened, would it? That was the first thing that came to mind, but I saw no dents, scratches, or other evidence on the bar that large clamping forces had been applied.
smontanaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-14, 07:55 PM   #7
Bandera 
Ding!
 
Bandera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Texas Hill Country
Bikes:
Posts: 3,960
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by smontanaro View Post
If the lever body was damaged in a collision, it must have hit it just so. If it's from an impact, my guess is it's more likely the bike fell over.
That would be "fell over" from a very great height.
A helicopter might be necessary since those are among the most crash-survivable levers in cycling history, or a "just so" blow from John Henry's mighty hammer.

Clearly checking the alignment of the fork/frame & attendant bits & bobs is a waste of time.
Proceed.

-Bandera
__________________
'74 Raleigh International - '77 Trek TX900FG - '92 Vitus 979 - '10 Merckx EMX-3- '11 Soma Stanyan
Bandera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-14, 08:27 PM   #8
smontanaro 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Evanston, IL
Bikes:
Posts: 2,267
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
I want suggesting that there is no chance the frame was damaged. If it was bad enough to break the lever body, I would think there would be some visible evidence in the paint.

Shipping damage is another possibility, I agree. The bars were removed from the frame for shipping. They seemed adequately padded.

I will consider the possibility that the frame was damaged, and will have it checked out.

Last edited by smontanaro; 07-08-14 at 09:26 PM.
smontanaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-14, 08:53 PM   #9
gioscinelli 
Ride Fast and Ride Safe!
 
gioscinelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chicago
Bikes: 85 Gios Torino Professional-95 Cinelli Supercorse-97 Merlin Extralight-06 Colnago C50-71 Peugeot PX 10-74 Peugeot Mixtie U018-73 Peugeot U018
Posts: 1,196
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It looks like over torquing the bolt with foreign object wedge between the bar and the brake body may have been the culprit. In all the years of riding Campagnolo equipped bikes I never came across anything close to that kind of damage. Mike
__________________
85 Gios Professional-95 Cinelli SC-97 Merlin Extralight-06 Colnago C 50-74 Peugeot Mixte-73 Peugeot Mixte
gioscinelli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-14, 10:11 PM   #10
Miele Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Bikes:
Posts: 1,487
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Looking at the area of the break I see only one colour right across the broken area. That type of one colour rather than an area of lighter colour near an area of darker colour indicates that the break was sudden and not a crack that progressed to a final break. Barring any other damage to the bars or brake body I'd guess that someone really torqued down on the mounting of that lever body. It's also possible that before tightening that the body was twisted slightly and was resting a bit on the clamp band. Tightening the body then caused it to be overly stressed to the point of failure. Being that this piece was held in place by the bar wrap I'd say that the tightening took place after the bar was wrqapped. Perhaps the original owner moved the lever slightly after wrapping the bar?

Cheers from Miele Man
Miele Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 03:37 AM   #11
1987
Senior Member
 
1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Bikes: Cinelli SC 1971, Daccordi 1985
Posts: 680
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've also seen it before but not a pice that large. It was on a shipped bike.
1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 03:54 AM   #12
Chombi 
Senior Member
 
Chombi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Bikes: 1986 Alan Record Carbonio, 1985 Vitus Plus Carbone 7, 1984 Peugeot PSV, 1972 Line Seeker, 1986(est.) Medici Aerodynamic (Project), 1985(est.) Peugeot PY10FC
Posts: 10,875
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Could also be a flawed casting from the factory......like bubbles in the casting causing a weak area where it eventually cracked from the wedging forces coming from the handlebar..... Even the great Campagnolo can sometimes suffer lapses in QC once in a while.....
Chombi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 04:01 AM   #13
rootboy 
Senior Member
 
rootboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wherever
Bikes:
Posts: 15,889
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
I may have a spare one of those, Skip. Emphasis on "may". Have to look. Send me a PM if you like.
rootboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 04:12 AM   #14
rootboy 
Senior Member
 
rootboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wherever
Bikes:
Posts: 15,889
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Here's my theory. The original owner, being a racing wannabe, living in a small Indiana town, saved up and bought himself a Masi. One day he rode up alongside a group of smug Italian Pros and ….

Looks like a casting flaw and/or, that lever had been dropped or whacked. Notice the chip out of the top corner. And what looks like a casting void in the material.
rootboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 04:43 AM   #15
gomango 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: STP
Bikes:
Posts: 13,470
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 95 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rootboy View Post
I may have a spare one of those, Skip. Emphasis on "may". Have to look. Send me a PM if you like.
Same here....

Check with Scott first, but if his cupboard is bare, pm me.
gomango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 07:15 AM   #16
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 10,934
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 94 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by smontanaro View Post
One of the levers has a scratch, but that's not at all unusual. The bars (Cinelli Giro d'Italia) seem straight to me (my RRB had an obviously bent bar - this one is straight). The paint on the frame is original and in excellent condition. If the lever body was damaged in a collision, it must have hit it just so. If it's from an impact, my guess is it's more likely the bike fell over.

This wouldn't happen if the clamp was just overtightened, would it? That was the first thing that came to mind, but I saw no dents, scratches, or other evidence on the bar that large clamping forces had been applied.
Good that the bars are intact. I would not assume though that the levers have only been mounted on these bars, 30 years plus is lots of time for things to happen.
As stated earlier, a gorilla mechanic is always a possibility. One of the things as a mechanic long ago I looked at when a customer complained of bar/stem creeks was the brake levers. I have seen lots of curious stuff. Not all with tools should apply them to a bike.
repechage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 08:31 AM   #17
SJX426 
Senior Member
 
SJX426's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Alexandria, Va
Bikes: '72 Motobecane Le Champion(totaled), '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '94 Burley Duet, '88 Pinarello Tre Cime, '88 Masi Gran Corsa, '91 Pinarello Montello, '97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster
Posts: 4,909
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
I fail to see a casting void. My guess is that it was hit with high impact from the side. I highly doubt it resulted from over torquing the bolt. The boken part looks like it was not in contact with the bar but with a space between the edge and the bar surface. The edge may have been hit from the "outside," leaveraging against the body which failed with the angled surface shown. The impact was distributed over some area, hence not a small chip but a large one as shown.

Here is an example of a Universal base that was too tight:


and here is an example of another one that experienced a large impact:
SJX426 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 09:02 AM   #18
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 7
Posts: 20,358
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 633 Post(s)
No .. very rare .. you win

you can probably hide it under the tape job on the bars .

FWIW suntour Superbe of the era, was such a close copy they are interchangeable

I swapped levers onto the bodies ..

Last edited by fietsbob; 07-09-14 at 09:06 AM.
fietsbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 09:12 AM   #19
SJX426 
Senior Member
 
SJX426's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Alexandria, Va
Bikes: '72 Motobecane Le Champion(totaled), '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '94 Burley Duet, '88 Pinarello Tre Cime, '88 Masi Gran Corsa, '91 Pinarello Montello, '97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster
Posts: 4,909
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
I did a measurement between the Suntour and Campagnolo bodies and found a couple of 10ths of an inch differnece. Not enough to notice. I think the Suntour was a bit longer between the bar and the cable hole. Why would I do such a crazy comparison? I was interested in know if Rootboy's leather hoods would fit both. The answer is likely, yes.
SJX426 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 09:58 AM   #20
rootboy 
Senior Member
 
rootboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wherever
Bikes:
Posts: 15,889
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJX426 View Post
I fail to see a casting void.
Triangulate between the broken piece and that chip in the upper corner and look at that black spot near the corner.
May just be a spot of grunge. Dunno.

Also, check out the dings on that bar just below where the edge of that piece would have hit had it been whacked. Definitely looks like it was hit and even dinged the aluminum below it. Pretty weird. I wonder if some ham fisted mechanic tried to "adjust" (with a mallet) the lever angle with them tightened in place? Who knows….

BTW, SJX, that pic of that Uni lever body is ugly. I've seen them crack up near the cable barrel, but nothing like that. I might have to go back mine off a bit!

Last edited by rootboy; 07-09-14 at 10:58 AM.
rootboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 10:19 AM   #21
SJX426 
Senior Member
 
SJX426's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Alexandria, Va
Bikes: '72 Motobecane Le Champion(totaled), '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '94 Burley Duet, '88 Pinarello Tre Cime, '88 Masi Gran Corsa, '91 Pinarello Montello, '97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster
Posts: 4,909
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
@rootboy - The second pic is what happened when I hit a car at 21 mph.

The Uni base is susceptible to failure as the band pulls the base against the bar and the bar acts like a wedge pushing the sides out. I don't know if it is just me but the Uni bases just look weak in design in this area. Not nearly as robust as the Camagnolo and some others. The material looks too thin and the lack of smooth radius' just screams "give me a reason to fail!"

Now that I look at the bar more carefully, I think my logic is supported. look at the deformation of the surface of the bar where the edge of the broken part may have hit as well as the mark on the bar above where the small chipped out section is. They don't look like the shear like marks I would expect from being over tightened but rather an orthogonal impact impression.

Last edited by SJX426; 07-09-14 at 10:27 AM.
SJX426 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 10:59 AM   #22
rootboy 
Senior Member
 
rootboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wherever
Bikes:
Posts: 15,889
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
"orthogonal impact impression."

I had one of those once….

got dain bramage from it.
rootboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:26 AM.