Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-08-14, 08:19 PM   #1
kflagg 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Florida Gulf Coast
Bikes: 1967 Carlton team/1999 Serotta Atlanta / 2012 Breezer Venturi / 2010 Trek District
Posts: 379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Help with front derailleur setup on Carlton

Unable to post pics for some reason so will do my best to explain.

Getting closer on getting my dads Carlton back together and discovered an issue with front derailleur setup. In short when I received the bike it had no front derailleur and the front derailleur down tube shift lever was missing... Then trying to figure what derailleur I will need I discovered no cable guide ?? So after reading post from searching the board it looks like I need a clamp on cable guide ? Single or I believe double will also work just wouldn't use the guide for the rear as it has braze on's for cable housing routing.

Now I also discovered from the search I have one braze on for the non drive side just above the bottom bracket shell on the down tube. From what I found possibly I can run a piece of outer housing and cable from that braze on under the bottom bracket shell into the front derailleur cable clamp ?

Also will I need a bottom pull front derailleur ? Running double rings up front.

Hopefully I didn't confuse everyone.

KF
kflagg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-14, 09:25 PM   #2
Wulf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 681
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
If you have a cable stop brazed onto your downtube then you can use a piece of cable housing routed under the BB and you can use a pull down style FD.
Wulf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-14, 09:46 PM   #3
Ed. 
Senior Member
 
Ed.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Hopkinton, MA
Bikes: 1938 Raleigh Record Ace (2), 1938 Schwinn Paramount, 1961 Torpado, 1964? Frejus, 1980 Raleigh 753 Team Pro, Moulton, other stuff...
Posts: 1,486
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Way back, in the beginning of time, at least some front derailleurs had built-in cable stops (Campag and Cyclo for two). Running the housing under the BB will work fine.
Ed. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 03:53 AM   #4
kflagg 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Florida Gulf Coast
Bikes: 1967 Carlton team/1999 Serotta Atlanta / 2012 Breezer Venturi / 2010 Trek District
Posts: 379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Great I was thinking that would work but wanted to be sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulf View Post
If you have a cable stop brazed onto your downtube then you can use a piece of cable housing routed under the BB and you can use a pull down style FD.
kflagg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 03:54 AM   #5
kflagg 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Florida Gulf Coast
Bikes: 1967 Carlton team/1999 Serotta Atlanta / 2012 Breezer Venturi / 2010 Trek District
Posts: 379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sounds good thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed. View Post
Way back, in the beginning of time, at least some front derailleurs had built-in cable stops (Campag and Cyclo for two). Running the housing under the BB will work fine.
kflagg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 07:48 AM   #6
kflagg 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Florida Gulf Coast
Bikes: 1967 Carlton team/1999 Serotta Atlanta / 2012 Breezer Venturi / 2010 Trek District
Posts: 379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Another question I have I understand I can run from my braze on cable stop on the down tube with cable and housing but have no stop or finding a replacement derailleur with a cable stop... how do I add a stop at the derailleur end ?

KF
kflagg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 07:54 AM   #7
kflagg 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Florida Gulf Coast
Bikes: 1967 Carlton team/1999 Serotta Atlanta / 2012 Breezer Venturi / 2010 Trek District
Posts: 379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Do I just get a separate clamp on cable stop and mount it below the front derailleur ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by kflagg View Post
Another question I have I understand I can run from my braze on cable stop on the down tube with cable and housing but have no stop or finding a replacement derailleur with a cable stop... how do I add a stop at the derailleur end ?

KF
kflagg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 08:42 AM   #8
DiegoFrogs
Senior Member
 
DiegoFrogs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Helsingborg, Sweden
Bikes: Centurion and Carlton touring bikes, junky Helkama city bike
Posts: 2,086
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You get a front derailleur that has the stop integrated into the design of the derailleur. I have a Suntour Cyclone like this, and there are many others. Then, you run housing between the stops.
DiegoFrogs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 08:47 AM   #9
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 7
Posts: 18,736
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 202 Post(s)
There are clamp on double cable guides , they pass the cable over the BB.. Campagnolo made them too .

where is the stop on the chain stay? there are clamp on ones for that too.
fietsbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 08:53 AM   #10
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 16,546
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiegoFrogs View Post
You get a front derailleur that has the stop integrated into the design of the derailleur. I have a Suntour Cyclone like this, and there are many others. Then, you run housing between the stops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
There are clamp on double cable guides , they pass the cable over the BB.. Campagnolo made them too .

where is the stop on the chain stay? there are clamp on ones for that too.
He has a brazed on stop on the down tube near the BB. I don't know what a stop on the chain stay has to do with the current discussion.
Grand Bois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 08:58 AM   #11
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 7
Posts: 18,736
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 202 Post(s)
didn't see pictures .. glad you have seen them .

if the rear chainstay stop is above the chainstay cable has to pass over the BB.

of course .
fietsbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 08:58 AM   #12
Ed. 
Senior Member
 
Ed.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Hopkinton, MA
Bikes: 1938 Raleigh Record Ace (2), 1938 Schwinn Paramount, 1961 Torpado, 1964? Frejus, 1980 Raleigh 753 Team Pro, Moulton, other stuff...
Posts: 1,486
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kflagg View Post
Do I just get a separate clamp on cable stop and mount it below the front derailleur ??
You shouldn't need one. Both cables on my Raleigh run thru short lengths of tubing under the BB with no stops. The only issue I can imagine is the housing, being unrestrained at one end, might tend to creep in that direction.
Ed. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 09:07 AM   #13
SJX426 
Senior Member
 
SJX426's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Alexandria, Va
Bikes: '72 Motobecane Le Champion(totaled), '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '94 Burley Duet, '88 Pinarello Tre Cime, '88 Masi Gran Corsa, '91 Pinarello Montello, '97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster
Posts: 4,867
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Depending on what you whant the end results to look like, you might want to consider doing what I now do everytime there is an under the BB routing that doesn't have a plastic guide:


Use hot glue to hold the housing or liner in place to keep it from creeping.
SJX426 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 09:30 AM   #14
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 16,546
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
didn't see pictures .. glad you have seen them .

if the rear chainstay stop is above the chainstay cable has to pass over the BB.

of course .
No pictures needed. Just read more carefully:

"Now I also discovered from the search I have one braze on for the non drive side just above the bottom bracket shell on the down tube."

Cable routing to the RD is not at issue.
Grand Bois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 10:13 AM   #15
due ruote 
Senior Member
 
due ruote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 5,350
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
No pictures needed. Just read more carefully:

"Now I also discovered from the search I have one braze on for the non drive side just above the bottom bracket shell on the down tube."

Cable routing to the RD is not at issue.
This is why I don't understand all the discussion of routing the cable under the BB. Pics would be most helpful.
due ruote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 10:23 AM   #16
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 16,546
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by due ruote View Post
This is why I don't understand all the discussion of routing the cable under the BB. Pics would be most helpful.
The frame is set up for a FD that has a housing stop. A loop of housing runs from a stop on the down tube to the FD. You can run housing from the stop on the DT under the BB to a FD with no stop, but it will look like crap, IMO. I would do it only as a temporary kludge until I could find a FD with a stop.

My Gitane, Peugeot and Jeunet al have front derailers with stops, but it's not just a French thing.
Grand Bois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 10:30 AM   #17
SJX426 
Senior Member
 
SJX426's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Alexandria, Va
Bikes: '72 Motobecane Le Champion(totaled), '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '94 Burley Duet, '88 Pinarello Tre Cime, '88 Masi Gran Corsa, '91 Pinarello Montello, '97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster
Posts: 4,867
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
I knew one of my bike had this configuration! Well it is my wifes!
SJX426 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 10:30 AM   #18
lostarchitect 
incazzare.
 
lostarchitect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Bikes: See sig
Posts: 6,024
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
The frame is set up for a FD that has a housing stop. A loop of housing runs from a stop on the down tube to the FD. You can run housing from the stop on the DT under the BB to a FD with no stop, but it will look like crap, IMO. I would do it only as a temporary kludge until I could find a FD with a stop.

My Gitane, Peugeot and Jeunet al have front derailers with stops, but it's not just a French thing.

I agree, this is ugly. You have two decent solutions.

1. Get a FD with an integrated cable stop, and run housing from your downtube stop to the FD. This is the best solution.

2. Use your FD without a stop, and get a bolt on cable stop (like this - make sure you get the right size!), then run housing from your downtube cable stop to the bolt on stop.
__________________
1964 JRJ (Bob Jackson), 1973 Wes Mason, 1974 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1986 Schwinn High Sierra, 2000ish Colian (Colin Laing), 2011 Dick Chafe, 2013 Velo Orange Pass Hunter
lostarchitect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 07:00 PM   #19
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 16,546
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
They're not too hard to find.

front derailleur with stop | eBay
Grand Bois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 08:54 PM   #20
kflagg 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Florida Gulf Coast
Bikes: 1967 Carlton team/1999 Serotta Atlanta / 2012 Breezer Venturi / 2010 Trek District
Posts: 379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yes I found a few but still may go for one without and use a separate cable stop mounted below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
They're not too hard to find.

front derailleur with stop | eBay
kflagg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-14, 09:18 PM   #21
Ed. 
Senior Member
 
Ed.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Hopkinton, MA
Bikes: 1938 Raleigh Record Ace (2), 1938 Schwinn Paramount, 1961 Torpado, 1964? Frejus, 1980 Raleigh 753 Team Pro, Moulton, other stuff...
Posts: 1,486
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
I agree, this [routing under the BB] is ugly. ...
Begging your pardon, that's the way Gerald O'Donvan (AKA GOD) built all (as far as I know) the Raleigh SBDU bikes. It's not ugly, in fact it's rather attractive in a minimalist sort of way. I do realize, in this particular case, that there would be an unused cable stop on the down tube. While a derailleur with an integral stop is to be preferred, if one wasn't to be found this [routing under the BB] would be a perfectly suitable solution.
Ed. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-14, 10:01 AM   #22
lostarchitect 
incazzare.
 
lostarchitect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Bikes: See sig
Posts: 6,024
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed. View Post
Begging your pardon, that's the way Gerald O'Donvan (AKA GOD) built all (as far as I know) the Raleigh SBDU bikes. It's not ugly, in fact it's rather attractive in a minimalist sort of way. I do realize, in this particular case, that there would be an unused cable stop on the down tube. While a derailleur with an integral stop is to be preferred, if one wasn't to be found this [routing under the BB] would be a perfectly suitable solution.
I'm talking about routing a piece of housing from the downtube cable stop, under the BB and then having the end of it stick up loose behind the seat tube. Is that what you're referring to? If so, then yes, it is ugly and sloppy, and I don't care who did it.
__________________
1964 JRJ (Bob Jackson), 1973 Wes Mason, 1974 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1986 Schwinn High Sierra, 2000ish Colian (Colin Laing), 2011 Dick Chafe, 2013 Velo Orange Pass Hunter
lostarchitect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-14, 11:19 AM   #23
g eisler
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Argyll, Scotland
Bikes: Tsunoda aero ax 1981, Ernie Clements gents racer with all sorts on it
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think this is what you want, , this FD uses the down tube cable stop , a short piece of outer goes to the DR stop, its neat and effective, this DR is slack cable bug ring, so the shift lever goes forward for faster like the rear DR.
g eisler is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:00 PM.