Bridgestone RB1 restoration questions
#1
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Bridgestone RB1 restoration questions
Hi all,
I'm just getting back into cycling, after quite a few years of slothfulness, and have managed to pick up a 1989 Bridgestone RB-1 for a good price ($280). I've had an old MB-5 for years that's been completely reliable. I've always wanted a road bike, and now have one.
I'm pretty new to bike repair, but with the help of a book from the library I've spent the past couple of nights disassembling, cleaning, and reassemblying things (brakes, rear derailer, quill stem). I've setup the wheels with new Panaracer Pacela PT 700x25 tires, and decided last night that the bike is the correct size for me. The rest of the components are virtually stock (Suntour GPX brakes, dt shifters, crankset, front & rear derailer, front hub); even the brake pads say Suntour. The front wheel had (at purchase) what I assume is likely an original Bridgestone 700x25c tire (if some collector wants this, it's yours for the price of shipping).
The one bit that's not stock (per the catalog on Sheldon Brown's website) is the rear hub & freewheel. The hub is a Shimano 105, and the freewheel (cassette??) is labeled Shimano hyperglide. Some of the cogs are pretty beat up, so I've decided to attempt to restore these components close to the original suntour, including something that will allow the accushift indexing to work. Initial research suggests this will not be a cheap restoration, since good condition Suntour parts are selling for huge markups. But since my purchase price for the bike was pretty good, I'm not opposed to sinking some $$ into this ($200 ebay freewheels are a bridge to far, though).
I see numerous Suntour 7-speed freewheels on ebay and other places; some are explicitly labeled as accushift, some are not.
Can someone spell out for me what I should be looking for here? Winner Pro? Winner Ultra? Something else?
Thanks!
I'm just getting back into cycling, after quite a few years of slothfulness, and have managed to pick up a 1989 Bridgestone RB-1 for a good price ($280). I've had an old MB-5 for years that's been completely reliable. I've always wanted a road bike, and now have one.
I'm pretty new to bike repair, but with the help of a book from the library I've spent the past couple of nights disassembling, cleaning, and reassemblying things (brakes, rear derailer, quill stem). I've setup the wheels with new Panaracer Pacela PT 700x25 tires, and decided last night that the bike is the correct size for me. The rest of the components are virtually stock (Suntour GPX brakes, dt shifters, crankset, front & rear derailer, front hub); even the brake pads say Suntour. The front wheel had (at purchase) what I assume is likely an original Bridgestone 700x25c tire (if some collector wants this, it's yours for the price of shipping).
The one bit that's not stock (per the catalog on Sheldon Brown's website) is the rear hub & freewheel. The hub is a Shimano 105, and the freewheel (cassette??) is labeled Shimano hyperglide. Some of the cogs are pretty beat up, so I've decided to attempt to restore these components close to the original suntour, including something that will allow the accushift indexing to work. Initial research suggests this will not be a cheap restoration, since good condition Suntour parts are selling for huge markups. But since my purchase price for the bike was pretty good, I'm not opposed to sinking some $$ into this ($200 ebay freewheels are a bridge to far, though).
I see numerous Suntour 7-speed freewheels on ebay and other places; some are explicitly labeled as accushift, some are not.
Can someone spell out for me what I should be looking for here? Winner Pro? Winner Ultra? Something else?
Thanks!
Last edited by cbender; 07-09-14 at 01:03 PM.
#2
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I have an Ironman expert with GPX. If you want to swap parts, PM photos of what you have to trade.
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I would not bother trying to get the bike to work with suntour indexing and I'm a big suntour fan. Shimano indexing is better hands down and lots easier to find parts for. I'd get a new 7 speed cassette (they're readily available) and live with friction. If you want indexing, I'd pick up seven speed shimano DT shifters and a shimano rear derailleur. In the long run, this will save you money and give you better shifting.
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I'm not a Suntour expert, but if I recall correctly, all of their 7 speed freewheels used 5mm spacing (sprocket center-to-center). So the only difference is in level of quality, I think.
I've seen there are different tooth profiles, maybe between Ultra and Winner? But not really sure. I have a 14/28 Suntour freewheel that looks to be in nearly unused condition, if this will help you out give me a shout at rccardr@cox.net and we'll work something out. It most likely came off of an Accushift equipped Cannondale some years ago...
I've seen there are different tooth profiles, maybe between Ultra and Winner? But not really sure. I have a 14/28 Suntour freewheel that looks to be in nearly unused condition, if this will help you out give me a shout at rccardr@cox.net and we'll work something out. It most likely came off of an Accushift equipped Cannondale some years ago...
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#5
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Here's a page from velobase.com on their various brand's shifting systems. See SunTour AccuShift 5th one down & it will tell you what goes with what. Have fun. Not sure if you're near a co-op, but I bought a Suntour XC Sport 7000 for $7.00 at the local co-op and it allows AccuShift. I had already purchased an Accushift friendly freewheel, then bought Accushift 6 speed thumb shifters and it worked great. The shifters were new & freewheel "lightly" used & price wasn't too bad.
Sometimes we do end up spending more than the bike is worth, however, if that's not an issue, then it can be a good learning experience.
Have fun & keep us posted.
Sometimes we do end up spending more than the bike is worth, however, if that's not an issue, then it can be a good learning experience.
Have fun & keep us posted.
#6
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Nice looking bike. I always wanted to try that GPX group.
I agree with the others. I upgraded my '88 Bianchi with Suntour Sprint 7sp to a pair of shimano 7 spd cassette wheels and it shifts, as they say, like butter! Give it a try before you go spending money. Also if that is a cassette style wheel it is a bit sturdier than the older freewheel style
This may help with the terminology. Freewheel or Cassette?
I agree with the others. I upgraded my '88 Bianchi with Suntour Sprint 7sp to a pair of shimano 7 spd cassette wheels and it shifts, as they say, like butter! Give it a try before you go spending money. Also if that is a cassette style wheel it is a bit sturdier than the older freewheel style
This may help with the terminology. Freewheel or Cassette?
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#7
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Thanks all for the suggestions.
Transitioning to shimano is obviously the easier path, although I've already got the rest of the drivetrain and it's not obvious to me that the accushift will index with a shimano cassette (I see some people have gotten it to work, but I'm pretty green here so was attempting to avoid R&D projects.) Regardless, I'll see what the current shifting is like before doing anything crazy.
rccardr - Thanks for the info on the 7 speed freewheels; I've come across several suntour 7 cog models not explicitly labeled as accushift that are priced more reasonably. I think the 14/28 you have exceeds the capacity of my rear derailer (velobase says 23 for indexing, 26 for friction).
oddjob2 - Thanks for the trade offer. As I'm just getting into this, I don't have much of anything worth trading (unless you're interested in woodworking tools). I seriously doubt you want the existing shimano freewheel - the teeth are pretty torn up on a couple of the cogs.
Transitioning to shimano is obviously the easier path, although I've already got the rest of the drivetrain and it's not obvious to me that the accushift will index with a shimano cassette (I see some people have gotten it to work, but I'm pretty green here so was attempting to avoid R&D projects.) Regardless, I'll see what the current shifting is like before doing anything crazy.
rccardr - Thanks for the info on the 7 speed freewheels; I've come across several suntour 7 cog models not explicitly labeled as accushift that are priced more reasonably. I think the 14/28 you have exceeds the capacity of my rear derailer (velobase says 23 for indexing, 26 for friction).
oddjob2 - Thanks for the trade offer. As I'm just getting into this, I don't have much of anything worth trading (unless you're interested in woodworking tools). I seriously doubt you want the existing shimano freewheel - the teeth are pretty torn up on a couple of the cogs.
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I would not bother trying to get the bike to work with suntour indexing and I'm a big suntour fan. Shimano indexing is better hands down and lots easier to find parts for. I'd get a new 7 speed cassette (they're readily available) and live with friction. If you want indexing, I'd pick up seven speed shimano DT shifters and a shimano rear derailleur. In the long run, this will save you money and give you better shifting.
Trying to mix Suntour and Shimano is not worth the effort, in my experience. The result will be no better than mediocre. Others may have had better results.
Last edited by Grand Bois; 07-09-14 at 06:25 PM.
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#11
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I thought the two smallest cogs on a suntour cassette had slightly narrower spacing than the rest which causes issues when using shimano indexing.
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OK. Thanks.
I think I've located a New Winner model at a reasonable price, and will give that a try.
I think I've located a New Winner model at a reasonable price, and will give that a try.
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as long as the spacing of cogs is same can use any brand freewheel cassette
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-spacing.html
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-spacing.html
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as long as the spacing of cogs is same can use any brand freewheel cassette
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-spacing.html
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-spacing.html
In practical terms, this means a Suntour shifter and derailleur will not index perfectly with a Shimano cassette or freewheel. Whether it's "acceptable" or not depends on your tolerance for precision.
The reverse is less true: because the Shimano derailleur has a floating upper jockey wheel, it can accommodate the small difference better, and will index more acceptably on a Suntour freewheel or cassette.
As far as the OP sticking with GPX and Suntour 7s, I say do it man. I've been riding Suntour 7s for almost 30 years. Suntour's indexing uses overshift built into the lever, so cable drag can result in the derailleur not being able to pull the cable back through to finish the shift. Thus, it works very well on road bikes with downtube shifters because there is so little cable housing. It works somewhat less reliably on bikes with handlebar shifters and longer housing runs.
Suntour did make a 7s freehub and cassette but it was IME not as good as Shimano's until the Microdrive version. Much harder to find Suntour 7s cassettes than freewheels anyway.
Regarding Accushift vs. not: This is a little tricky. Suntour made New Winner freewheels in 7s that were pre-index (and even some Winner/New Winner that are not Accushift.) They are slightly narrower overall than index-compatible freewheels. Stick with Accushift or AP compatible Alpha, Winner or Winner Pro freewheels for best index results. IME the majority of Winner/Winner Pro are indexing compatible.
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Missed that for longer than I should have...
FWIW I have a 7sp Accushift Plus XC Pro RD and 7sp Accushift Plus barend shifter indexing across an IRD Classica 13-32 7sp freewheel, and doing so well. The Classica freewheel is modeled after a Shimano 600. Using a good Shimano 9sp chain seems to help by providing some lateral clearance between chain and adjacent sprockets. I swapped the 70s coiled housing at the RD for modern lined stuff and setting the cable tension took some attention, but overall easy enough to dial in and worth it. It’s a forgiving system in my limited experience.
FWIW I have a 7sp Accushift Plus XC Pro RD and 7sp Accushift Plus barend shifter indexing across an IRD Classica 13-32 7sp freewheel, and doing so well. The Classica freewheel is modeled after a Shimano 600. Using a good Shimano 9sp chain seems to help by providing some lateral clearance between chain and adjacent sprockets. I swapped the 70s coiled housing at the RD for modern lined stuff and setting the cable tension took some attention, but overall easy enough to dial in and worth it. It’s a forgiving system in my limited experience.
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Missed that for longer than I should have...
FWIW I have a 7sp Accushift Plus XC Pro RD and 7sp Accushift Plus barend shifter indexing across an IRD Classica 13-32 7sp freewheel, and doing so well. The Classica freewheel is modeled after a Shimano 600. Using a good Shimano 9sp chain seems to help by providing some lateral clearance between chain and adjacent sprockets. I swapped the 70s coiled housing at the RD for modern lined stuff and setting the cable tension took some attention, but overall easy enough to dial in and worth it. It’s a forgiving system in my limited experience.
FWIW I have a 7sp Accushift Plus XC Pro RD and 7sp Accushift Plus barend shifter indexing across an IRD Classica 13-32 7sp freewheel, and doing so well. The Classica freewheel is modeled after a Shimano 600. Using a good Shimano 9sp chain seems to help by providing some lateral clearance between chain and adjacent sprockets. I swapped the 70s coiled housing at the RD for modern lined stuff and setting the cable tension took some attention, but overall easy enough to dial in and worth it. It’s a forgiving system in my limited experience.
I have 2 bikes currently running 6 speed Accushift shifters, Accushift derailleurs and Shimano 6 speed freewheels.
I have had A-6 shifters pulling Accushift derailleur on an IRD 5 speed freewheel. I also had 7400 Dura Ace 6 speed shifters pulling an Accushift derailleur on an old 5 speed Winner freewheel- it actually worked perfectly.
I fear 7 speed Accushift.
8 speed Accushift is taunting your own peril.
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