Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-11-14, 12:46 PM   #1
1987
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Bikes: Cinelli SC 1971, Daccordi 1985
Posts: 677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
How tight clearance is ok for tires?

I am trying to get as big tires as possible to my vintage road bikes. First I thought that my mid 80s Daccordi could take 30 mm, but not even close. The front brake sets the bar. Now I measured it meticulously and with a 27 mm there is about 1 mm clearance to the brake caliper.

Fortunately Challenge makes a Paris Roubaix 27 mm tubular. But 1 mm feels very tight, I would like to have about 2 mm minimum. What if the tires streach over time etc.

What are your experiences with tight clearances?
1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-14, 12:57 PM   #2
due ruote 
Senior Member
 
due ruote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 5,380
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
And what if the 27 mm tire actually measures 28? I don't have experience with the tires you mention, but it sounds to me like you're dicing it awfully fine.
due ruote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-14, 01:01 PM   #3
Sir_Name 
Senior Member
 
Sir_Name's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Connecticut
Bikes: CAAD 9, RockHopper, Nuovo Mexico, Klein, Carrera Sport 650b, Giant MOSH, Motobecane GT (SS), Pro Tour 15 (awaiting frame repair), Woodrup, Al Sirrus (for the Ms)
Posts: 1,795
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
I believe the P-Rs measure more closely to 29. Tread carefully (pun...).

Veloflex makes a 25mm P-R model. I don't have mine mounted yet otherwise I'd measure them for you. Best to treat tire sizes as nominal.
Sir_Name is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-14, 01:05 PM   #4
lostarchitect 
incazzare.
 
lostarchitect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Bikes: See sig
Posts: 6,098
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_Name View Post
I believe the P-Rs measure more closely to 29. Tread carefully (pun...).
+1, I have some and they measure 29mm on my wheels. Great tires.

My rule of thumb is that if you don't have 2mm on either side of the tire (that's 4mm total), it's definitely too tight. If you have exactly 4mm total, it's still pretty dang tight!

You might be better off trying different brake calipers.
__________________
1964 JRJ (Bob Jackson), 1973 Wes Mason, 1974 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1986 Schwinn High Sierra, 2000ish Colian (Colin Laing), 2011 Dick Chafe, 2013 Velo Orange Pass Hunter
lostarchitect is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-14, 01:07 PM   #5
1987
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Bikes: Cinelli SC 1971, Daccordi 1985
Posts: 677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Here is some insight of what the pros use:
The tires, wheels and pressures of Paris-Roubaix - VeloNews.com

I actually have a pair of FMB P-R 25 mm. But would like to go up one step.
François Marie Boyaux

But FMBs are a bit expensive and harder to get, so I would like to try Challenge's version.
1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-14, 01:15 PM   #6
1987
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Bikes: Cinelli SC 1971, Daccordi 1985
Posts: 677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
+1, I have some and they measure 29mm on my wheels. Great tires.

My rule of thumb is that if you don't have 2mm on either side of the tire (that's 4mm total) ...
All high quality tires I've measured have had the same hight and width (or very close). So I measure from the rim edge to the brake calipers bottom.
The max width between the brake calipers is totally fine on my vintage bikes.

And my FMB 25 are 25 mm wide.
1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-14, 01:45 PM   #7
lostarchitect 
incazzare.
 
lostarchitect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Bikes: See sig
Posts: 6,098
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1987 View Post
All high quality tires I've measured have had the same hight and width (or very close). So I measure from the rim edge to the brake calipers bottom.
The max width between the brake calipers is totally fine on my vintage bikes.

And my FMB 25 are 25 mm wide.

I usually use the width because the chainstays seem to always be the limiting factor for me.
__________________
1964 JRJ (Bob Jackson), 1973 Wes Mason, 1974 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1986 Schwinn High Sierra, 2000ish Colian (Colin Laing), 2011 Dick Chafe, 2013 Velo Orange Pass Hunter
lostarchitect is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-14, 01:46 PM   #8
1987
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Bikes: Cinelli SC 1971, Daccordi 1985
Posts: 677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
I usually use the width because the chainstays seem to always be the limiting factor for me.
That's also true, especially for wider tires, for my frames that's over 30 mm.
1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-14, 01:57 PM   #9
Darth Lefty 
Disco Infiltrator
 
Darth Lefty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Orangevale CA
Bikes: '76 Paramount, 02 Hardrock, '98 C'Dale XR800, '04 Burley Samba, '15 Priority Classic
Posts: 5,692
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Fork / front brake clearance was the limiting factor on my Paramount, I was able to get enough clearance on the rear adjusting the dropouts. I can hear some rub on the front if the tire is at high pressure and not quite seated right. I think the frame was built for 700c tubulars with 27" clinchers as an option, and the 32 tires I'm running are as big as possible. Fenders were an option on this bike but I don't see how it would have been possible with the 27" clinchers unless it had rubber bands for tires.

Darth Lefty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-14, 02:11 PM   #10
1987
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Bikes: Cinelli SC 1971, Daccordi 1985
Posts: 677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
@Darth Lefty That looks tight, as you won't need a rear tire saver.
1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-14, 02:16 PM   #11
Darth Lefty 
Disco Infiltrator
 
Darth Lefty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Orangevale CA
Bikes: '76 Paramount, 02 Hardrock, '98 C'Dale XR800, '04 Burley Samba, '15 Priority Classic
Posts: 5,692
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1987 View Post
@Darth Lefty That looks tight, as you won't need a rear tire saver.
I know, right? If anything gruesome ever happens to the rear wheel I'll be respacing and using a modern wheelset.
Darth Lefty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-14, 03:28 PM   #12
Michael Angelo 
Senior Member
 
Michael Angelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hurricane Alley , Florida
Bikes: Treks (USA), Schwinn Paramount, Schwinn letour,Raleigh Team Professional, Gazelle GoldLine Racing, 2 Super Mondias, Carlton Professional.
Posts: 3,765
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Clearance on the rear brake on my Gazelle.


Michael Angelo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-14, 03:50 PM   #13
nlerner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 9,980
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
I had a set of Challenge Parigi-Robaix tubulars on my Bertin, which measure around 29mm and gave me a little over 1mm clearance on each side of the chain stays. Unfortunately, I popped a rear spoke while climbing, and then I didn't have any clearance! I was able to get myself home with only a little rubbing on the right side (fortunately chromed at that spot so no paint to wear off), but I've since replaced that wheel set with clinchers and narrower tires.
nlerner is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-14, 04:16 PM   #14
Barrettscv 
Have bike, will travel
 
Barrettscv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Edwardsville, Illinois
Bikes: Colnago Nuova Mexico, Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra, Pinarello Gavia, Schwinn Paramount, Motobecane Grand Record, Peugeot PX10, Serotta Nova X, Simoncini Cyclocross Special, Origin8 monstercross, Pedal Force CG2 and CX2
Posts: 10,473
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Challenge Parigi-Roubaix tires tend to grow in size once they are inflated and will expand about 2mm, in my experience. You're going to need extra clearance to account for this.
__________________
When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.

Last edited by Barrettscv; 07-11-14 at 04:20 PM.
Barrettscv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-14, 05:05 PM   #15
Velognome 
Get off my lawn!
 
Velognome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Garden State
Bikes: 1917 Loomis, 1923 Rudge, 1930 Hercules Renown, 1947 Mclean, 1948 JA Holland, 1955 Hetchins, 1957 Carlton Flyer, 1962 Raleigh Sport, 1978&81 Raleigh Gomp GS', 2010 Raliegh Clubman
Posts: 6,113
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
I spent a year with a bike that had 1mm of sidewall clearance between the chain stays just to get a "larger, wider, supple tire" . I meticulously trued the wheels weekly, watched over it during every ride....until I realized they were a kill joy, so I bought smaller tires and have been happy ever since. I don't miss the added volume of the larger tire as some periodicals insist you will.
Velognome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-14, 05:10 PM   #16
rootboy 
Senior Member
 
rootboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wherever
Bikes:
Posts: 15,699
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
I like at least three fingers and an RCH.
rootboy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-14, 05:38 PM   #17
jon c. 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Bikes:
Posts: 2,015
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
The chainstays on my Raleigh team pro were my limiting factor. We tried to squeeze in 27s and it might have worked just barely if the wheel was dead solid perfect, but I realized before any calamity that I was getting enough occasional rub that it was wearing the side of the tire. Had to go to 25s (which my LBS switched out for me at no cost as they thought they should have realized the larger tires would be too tight).
jon c. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-14, 05:43 PM   #18
nlerner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 9,980
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velognome View Post
I spent a year with a bike that had 1mm of sidewall clearance between the chain stays just to get a "larger, wider, supple tire" . I meticulously trued the wheels weekly, watched over it during every ride....until I realized they were a kill joy, so I bought smaller tires and have been happy ever since. I don't miss the added volume of the larger tire as some periodicals insist you will.
You're clearly not drinking enough Kool-Aid.
nlerner is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-14, 06:48 PM   #19
Sir_Name 
Senior Member
 
Sir_Name's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Connecticut
Bikes: CAAD 9, RockHopper, Nuovo Mexico, Klein, Carrera Sport 650b, Giant MOSH, Motobecane GT (SS), Pro Tour 15 (awaiting frame repair), Woodrup, Al Sirrus (for the Ms)
Posts: 1,795
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
You're clearly not drinking enough Kool-Aid.
Shhh... They might change the flavor.
Sir_Name is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-14, 08:45 PM   #20
photogravity 
Hopelessly addicted...
 
photogravity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Central Maryland
Bikes: 1949 Hercules Kestrel, 1950 Norman Rapide, 1970 Schwinn Collegiate, 1972 Peugeot UE-8, 1976 Raleigh Sports, 1977 Raleigh Sports, 1977 Jack Taylor Tandem, 1984 Davidson Tandem, 2010 Bilenky "BQ" 650B Constructeur Tandem, 2011 Linus Mixte
Posts: 5,008
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rootboy View Post
I like at least three fingers and an RCH.
Ah, yes. A RCH, the finest unit of measure I've come across yet!
__________________
--
Ridding the world of derailleurs, one bicycle at a time.

46 Hercules Roadster, 49 Hercules Kestrel, 50 Norman Rapide, 51 Hercules Lion, 52 Hercules Windsor, 56 Hercules Royal Prince, 61 Fiorelli Tandem, 67 Carlton Super Race (IGH), 70 Schwinn Collegiate (IGH), 71 Hercules, 71 STF Hercules, 72 Peugeot PX-8 (IGH), 76 Raleigh Sports, 77 STF Raleigh Sports, 77 Jack Taylor Tandem, Early-80's Mike Appel SC, 84 Davidson Tandem, Late-80's Alpine, 10 Bilenky "BQ" Signature Tandem
photogravity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-14, 09:00 PM   #21
krobinson103
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Incheon, South Korea
Bikes: Nothing amazing... cheap old 21 speed mtb
Posts: 2,837
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Running 28c on my latest build. Its tight but even with slightly out of true wheels they fit well enough. Wouldn't want to go any bigger though.
krobinson103 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-14, 09:08 PM   #22
jeirvine 
Senior Member
 
jeirvine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Bethesda/Baltimore MD
Bikes: Too many to count. No wait: eight. I have eight bikes.
Posts: 2,163
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Isn't this why 650b became a thing again? Squeezing fatter tires on bikes designed for 700c?
__________________
The man who dies with the most toys…is dead. - Rootboy
jeirvine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-14, 10:18 PM   #23
mikemowbz 
Senior Member
 
mikemowbz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Bikes: Are several.
Posts: 1,151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeirvine View Post
Isn't this why 650b became a thing again? Squeezing fatter tires on bikes designed for 700c?
So I gather. I think I may have to go down this road one of these days...

I will echo comments about the Parigi-Roubaix tires measuring well over spec - mine are pretty much a flat 30mm wide (run at quite high inflation), according to scrupulously repeated measurements with my Park caliper, and that thankfully clears the stays on my Proctor (which are the limiting factor on that bike).

I've usually found chainstays the limiting factor on most racey road frames I've pushed to the limit in this regard (my bikes are pretty much all 1980-1991 road race bikes; Canadian, Japanese, British). As a result, I've sometimes had good results with Conti 28s that are tall, but not quite (or just barely) as wide as spec. I don't think I'd go over 25 on my Marinoni, though - the rear tire would almost touch the seat tube, chainstays aside!

If front brake is really the limiting factor, and you've got room out back, I'd seriously consider running a 25 up front and a 28 in rear.

Parigi-Roubaixs rock, BTW, if you can fit 'em. They are more flat-prone, in my experience, than my regular city riding tires (go figure - light supple tire doesn't pack the robustness you'd expect of a Gatorskin or other tire constructed for flat protection, but that's WHY they ride so nice).

EDIT: and to speak the the question in the thread title, I'd not be super comfortable with anything less than 2-3mm clearance minimum, personally.

Last edited by mikemowbz; 07-11-14 at 10:21 PM.
mikemowbz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-14, 01:46 AM   #24
noglider 
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: West Village, New York City
Bikes: too many
Posts: 27,109
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 227 Post(s)
I also like wide-ish tires, but some 25mm tires ride nicely.

I'm carrying panniers on the front of my McLean now, so I'm going to put some 28's on the bike. That will be a nice compromise. I might even be able to fit 32's there, but I have always liked 28's, and there are lots of nice tires available in that size. I'm going to try some Continentals.
__________________
Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-14, 09:41 AM   #25
Road Fan
Senior Member
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Bikes:
Posts: 12,290
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1987 View Post
I am trying to get as big tires as possible to my vintage road bikes. First I thought that my mid 80s Daccordi could take 30 mm, but not even close. The front brake sets the bar. Now I measured it meticulously and with a 27 mm there is about 1 mm clearance to the brake caliper.

Fortunately Challenge makes a Paris Roubaix 27 mm tubular. But 1 mm feels very tight, I would like to have about 2 mm minimum. What if the tires streach over time etc.

What are your experiences with tight clearances?
I assume you're talking about radial clearance, not lateral clearance. I'm using that tire on a Mondonico from 1984 or so, and it shows about 5 mm clearance. It does measure 27 mm front and rear. I haven't noticed anything getting caught in there even on the sometimes nasty roads here in Michigan. If you can measure from the bottom of your fork crown to the center of the front axle or to whatever point is closest to your tire (need some creativity to estimate this reasonably) I can provide the measurements from my bike. I suspect the difference is only a few millimeters, but that is the important question, isn't it?

At least this is a comparison to another Italian road bike!

Last edited by Road Fan; 07-12-14 at 09:47 AM.
Road Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:07 PM.