Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-18-14, 02:52 PM   #1
Alex Issam
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Bikes:
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Saronni Track : Made by Colnago ?

Hey guys,

I hope someone could help me to find out more about this piece of steel.
I recently bought this frame but couldn't find any information that tell me accurately where this frame is from.

I have some hints but nothing sure about them.

I know that Colnago have made Saronni frame in the early 80's.
I thought this could be one of them but some details are missing, no club cutout in the bottom bracket and different chain stay bridge.
But dropouts are the same as colnago's, head tube lugs as well...
So nothing is 100% sure.

So the question is : Who has made this Frame ?

I have seen that Saronni was made by Colnago in the early 80's, then Tecnotrat got the brand.
If it's not a colnago made, what is it?

If someone has particular knowledge about it I would really appreciate.

Here are some pictures :










Last edited by Alex Issam; 07-28-14 at 12:47 PM.
Alex Issam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-14, 03:03 PM   #2
Leukybear
THE STUFFED
 
Leukybear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sandy Eggo, CA
Bikes: Sworks Venge; Rock Lobster; EAI Bareknuckle
Posts: 12,049
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Well it's definitely Italian.

Moved to C&V.
Leukybear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-14, 03:05 PM   #3
Alex Issam
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Bikes:
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leukybear View Post
Well it's definitely Italian.

Moved to C&V.
Thanks, I was hesitating between those two categories, made the wrong choice!

Yes its italian for sure !
Alex Issam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-14, 03:24 PM   #4
Bianchigirll 
Bianchi Goddess
 
Bianchigirll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Camp Hill, PA
Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.
Posts: 22,405
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Are you comparing this to a Colnago road frame or a track frame? Since a track frame enters from the rear and is not likely to be removed often, the BB bridge and stays are likely different to accommodate a shorter wheelbase. Beautiful frame.
__________________
Bianchis '87 Sport SX, '90 Proto, '90 Campione del Fausto Giamondi Specialisma Italiano Mundo, '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '86 Volpe, '97 Ti Megatube, , '90 something Vento 603,

Others but still loved,; '80 RIGI, '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '09 Motobecane SOLD, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape
Bianchigirll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-14, 05:03 PM   #5
Alex Issam
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Bikes:
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
Are you comparing this to a Colnago road frame or a track frame? Since a track frame enters from the rear and is not likely to be removed often, the BB bridge and stays are likely different to accommodate a shorter wheelbase. Beautiful frame.
I'm comparing this to a track frame.
Actually I've seen a Colnago made Saronni track bike on a forum with the club cutout and Colnago chain stay bridge.
Mine is similar to this one except for those two part. Thats why I wonder where it comes from.
Alex Issam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-14, 07:49 PM   #6
gl98115
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Bikes:
Posts: 312
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
Are you comparing this to a Colnago road frame or a track frame? Since a track frame enters from the rear and is not likely to be removed often, the BB bridge and stays are likely different to accommodate a shorter wheelbase. Beautiful frame.
What isn't removed often?
gl98115 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-14, 07:56 PM   #7
Gary Fountain
Senior Member
 
Gary Fountain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Hervey Bay, Qld, Australia.
Bikes: Colnago (82, 85, 89, 90, 91, 96, 03), 85 Cinelli, 90 Rossin, 83 Alan, 82 Bianchi, 78 Fountain, 2 x Pinarello, Malvern Star (37), Hillman (70's), 80's Beretto Lo-Pro Track, 80's Kenevans Lo-Pro, Columbus Max (95), DeGrandi (80's) Track.
Posts: 2,356
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I used to own a Colnago Sarroni Track bike and I do still have a couple of photo's of it. When I bought it, it was a deep red 'Saronni' colour but I found the paint was thin and didn't seem to have much resistance to rust under the paint. The other Saronni's I came across seemed to have poor paint jobs too. I decided to paint it white (as I had the paint) and I made my own decals. Repro. Saronni decals were not available at the time.

Mine had a Colnago 'flower' cutout under the bottom bracket, the seat stay caps were cast with 'Saronni' vertically - like yours. There was no 'S' cast into the bottom head tube lug and the fork crown had an 'S' and 'Saronni' on each side. There is no identifying logo cast into the rear bridge on my old frame.

Do the seat stay caps on your frame have the vertical 'Saronni' cast into the caps? It is difficult to see this in your photo.

The head tube lugs were a different profile than yours. Your head tube lugs were an older profile used by Colnago. Perhaps your frame is a very early 'Saronni'?

I can understand why you are questioning the origin of your frame. I can't give you a definitive yes or no - sorry.





Gary Fountain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-14, 02:54 AM   #8
Alex Issam
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Bikes:
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Nice one!
I've seen your bike while I was researching information about mine.
I was wondering about the cutout, now I've the answer.
The upper lug on the head tube was Colnago's right?

I've seen someone else having a Saronni track frame with the "S" on the bottom head tube lug, but I think he had the "flower" cutout as well.

Thanks for your answer anyway.
Alex Issam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-14, 03:16 AM   #9
Gary Fountain
Senior Member
 
Gary Fountain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Hervey Bay, Qld, Australia.
Bikes: Colnago (82, 85, 89, 90, 91, 96, 03), 85 Cinelli, 90 Rossin, 83 Alan, 82 Bianchi, 78 Fountain, 2 x Pinarello, Malvern Star (37), Hillman (70's), 80's Beretto Lo-Pro Track, 80's Kenevans Lo-Pro, Columbus Max (95), DeGrandi (80's) Track.
Posts: 2,356
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Issam View Post
Nice one!
I've seen your bike while I was researching information about mine.
I was wondering about the cutout, now I've the answer.
The upper lug on the head tube was Colnago's right?

I've seen someone else having a Saronni track frame with the "S" on the bottom head tube lug, but I think he had the "flower" cutout as well.

Thanks for your answer anyway.
No, my frame didn't have any Colnago identifying features other than the cut-out under the bottom bracket.
Gary Fountain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-14, 03:18 AM   #10
Alex Issam
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Bikes:
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Alright. Thanks
Alex Issam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-14, 03:44 PM   #11
Alex Issam
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Bikes:
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Anyone else has information about that frame ?

I have seen that Santini also have the same head tube lugs with the S cast, but I couldn't find any well defined picture to check if it's the same or not.
Maybe this frame is just a kind of bastard that has been made of random left parts by just "someone".
But it looks pretty well treated though.

Unfortunately I don't have the original fork, but I'm in talks with a Italian craftsman that could arrange that.
I will keep you updated with that.

Last edited by Alex Issam; 07-21-14 at 03:50 PM.
Alex Issam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-14, 05:21 PM   #12
Giacomo 1 
Senior Member
 
Giacomo 1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Queens NYC
Bikes:
Posts: 2,486
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well, it does have Ciocc decals on her, so it must be made by Ciocc, no?

Giovanni Pelizzoli is the builder. But I can't find any connection between him and Saronni...
__________________
Colnago Super
Torelli Pista
Basso Gap
Fabio Barecci
Miyata 1400A

It never gets easier, you just go faster. ~ Greg LeMond
Giacomo 1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-14, 02:29 AM   #13
Alex Issam
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Bikes:
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It has been repainted and sticked Ciocc, It's definitely not the original decals (decals quality is very bad).
Moreover, a Ciocc with the PDM scheme is kind of strange, Team PDM was riding Concorde.

Most of the saronni I have seen or read about had a poor paint job, maybe it was the case for this one as well and that explains the new paint.
The previous owner got the bike already repainted, so I can't get more information from him.
I couldn't find any connection between Ciocc/Pelizzoli and Saronni either.

Anyone own a Santini bike ?

Last edited by Alex Issam; 07-22-14 at 02:44 AM.
Alex Issam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-14, 12:46 PM   #14
Alex Issam
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Bikes:
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Does anyone know if pinning the lug and the tube together before brazing is a particularity of Colnago's process making.

[video=youtube;LdOWRbk5x-Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdOWRbk5x-Q[/video]

Alex Issam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-14, 12:52 PM   #15
Cynikal
Team Beer
 
Cynikal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sacramento CA
Bikes: Too Many
Posts: 5,919
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Pinning is not particular to Colnago. Many builders still do it today. Richard Sachs is a good example.
Cynikal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-14, 01:08 PM   #16
Alex Issam
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Bikes:
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks, but I meant in the 80's.
For me it's my first frame with this particularity.
Alex Issam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-14, 03:42 PM   #17
Zieleman
Senior Member
 
Zieleman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Amsterdam
Bikes: Enough for now
Posts: 747
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Gazelle used pinning on their Champion Mondial frames.
Zieleman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-14, 08:16 PM   #18
Henry III 
is just a real cool dude
 
Henry III's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Thumb, MI
Bikes:
Posts: 3,061
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My TSD Ciocc was pinned.
Henry III is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-14, 08:43 PM   #19
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 10,679
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynikal View Post
Pinning is not particular to Colnago. Many builders still do it today. Richard Sachs is a good example.
Sachs is porcupine pinning lately.

Colnago liked pins for a long long time.
repechage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-14, 09:00 AM   #20
Cynikal
Team Beer
 
Cynikal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sacramento CA
Bikes: Too Many
Posts: 5,919
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by repechage View Post
Sachs is porcupine pinning lately.

Colnago liked pins for a long long time.
I'm not familiar with the term "porcupine pinning", can you explain it? I'm an amature framebuilder myself but have yet to pin lugs.
Cynikal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-14, 09:10 AM   #21
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 10,679
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynikal View Post
I'm not familiar with the term "porcupine pinning", can you explain it? I'm an amature framebuilder myself but have yet to pin lugs.
I coined the term to describe the multiple pins he uses to hold the tubes in position, it seems to vary but 3 pins per tube per socket appears to do the trick for him, maybe 2 on each chain stay and one at the seat stay tops.
He uses finish nails tapered a bit on a belt sander, driven in to secure, externally cut off after brazing. (Most likely files out the pins at the top of the seat tube). Pinned in the jig. Brazed off jig.

Not a bad approach, the typical single pin I think leaves too much play to do much more than attempt to hold the joint together. I don't like tacking as it leaves a lot of questions regarding the flux.
repechage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-14, 11:00 AM   #22
Cynikal
Team Beer
 
Cynikal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sacramento CA
Bikes: Too Many
Posts: 5,919
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ah, got it. I'm interested in learning to pin for the reasons your mentioned. Although, tacking in the jig has not led to any alignment issues so far.
Cynikal is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:53 PM.