Alex Issam

Hey guys,

I hope someone could help me to find out more about this piece of steel.
I recently bought this frame but couldn't find any information that tell me accurately where this frame is from.

I have some hints but nothing sure about them.

I know that Colnago have made Saronni frame in the early 80's.
I thought this could be one of them but some details are missing, no club cutout in the bottom bracket and different chain stay bridge.
But dropouts are the same as colnago's, head tube lugs as well...
So nothing is 100% sure.

So the question is : Who has made this Frame ?

I have seen that Saronni was made by Colnago in the early 80's, then Tecnotrat got the brand.
If it's not a colnago made, what is it?

If someone has particular knowledge about it I would really appreciate.

Here are some pictures :

Leukybear 

Well it's definitely Italian.

Moved to C&V.

Alex Issam

Thanks, I was hesitating between those two categories, made the wrong choice!

Yes its italian for sure !

Bianchigirll 

Are you comparing this to a Colnago road frame or a track frame? Since a track frame enters from the rear and is not likely to be removed often, the BB bridge and stays are likely different to accommodate a shorter wheelbase. Beautiful frame.

Alex Issam

I'm comparing this to a track frame.
Actually I've seen a Colnago made Saronni track bike on a forum with the club cutout and Colnago chain stay bridge.
Mine is similar to this one except for those two part. Thats why I wonder where it comes from.

gl98115

What isn't removed often?

Gary Fountain

I used to own a Colnago Sarroni Track bike and I do still have a couple of photo's of it. When I bought it, it was a deep red 'Saronni' colour but I found the paint was thin and didn't seem to have much resistance to rust under the paint. The other Saronni's I came across seemed to have poor paint jobs too. I decided to paint it white (as I had the paint) and I made my own decals. Repro. Saronni decals were not available at the time.

Mine had a Colnago 'flower' cutout under the bottom bracket, the seat stay caps were cast with 'Saronni' vertically - like yours. There was no 'S' cast into the bottom head tube lug and the fork crown had an 'S' and 'Saronni' on each side. There is no identifying logo cast into the rear bridge on my old frame.

Do the seat stay caps on your frame have the vertical 'Saronni' cast into the caps? It is difficult to see this in your photo.

The head tube lugs were a different profile than yours. Your head tube lugs were an older profile used by Colnago. Perhaps your frame is a very early 'Saronni'?

I can understand why you are questioning the origin of your frame. I can't give you a definitive yes or no - sorry.

Alex Issam

Nice one!
I've seen your bike while I was researching information about mine.
I was wondering about the cutout, now I've the answer.
The upper lug on the head tube was Colnago's right?

I've seen someone else having a Saronni track frame with the "S" on the bottom head tube lug, but I think he had the "flower" cutout as well.

Thanks for your answer anyway.

Gary Fountain

No, my frame didn't have any Colnago identifying features other than the cut-out under the bottom bracket.

Alex Issam

Alright. Thanks

Alex Issam

Anyone else has information about that frame ?

I have seen that Santini also have the same head tube lugs with the S cast, but I couldn't find any well defined picture to check if it's the same or not.
Maybe this frame is just a kind of bastard that has been made of random left parts by just "someone".
But it looks pretty well treated though.

Unfortunately I don't have the original fork, but I'm in talks with a Italian craftsman that could arrange that.
I will keep you updated with that.

Giacomo 1 

Well, it does have Ciocc decals on her, so it must be made by Ciocc, no?

Giovanni Pelizzoli is the builder. But I can't find any connection between him and Saronni...

Alex Issam

It has been repainted and sticked Ciocc, It's definitely not the original decals (decals quality is very bad).
Moreover, a Ciocc with the PDM scheme is kind of strange, Team PDM was riding Concorde.

Most of the saronni I have seen or read about had a poor paint job, maybe it was the case for this one as well and that explains the new paint.
The previous owner got the bike already repainted, so I can't get more information from him.
I couldn't find any connection between Ciocc/Pelizzoli and Saronni either.

Anyone own a Santini bike ?

Alex Issam

Does anyone know if pinning the lug and the tube together before brazing is a particularity of Colnago's process making.

Cynikal 

Pinning is not particular to Colnago. Many builders still do it today. Richard Sachs is a good example.

Alex Issam

Thanks, but I meant in the 80's.
For me it's my first frame with this particularity.

Zieleman

Gazelle used pinning on their Champion Mondial frames.

Henry III

My TSD Ciocc was pinned.

repechage

Sachs is porcupine pinning lately.

Colnago liked pins for a long long time.

Cynikal 

I'm not familiar with the term "porcupine pinning", can you explain it? I'm an amature framebuilder myself but have yet to pin lugs.

repechage

I coined the term to describe the multiple pins he uses to hold the tubes in position, it seems to vary but 3 pins per tube per socket appears to do the trick for him, maybe 2 on each chain stay and one at the seat stay tops.
He uses finish nails tapered a bit on a belt sander, driven in to secure, externally cut off after brazing. (Most likely files out the pins at the top of the seat tube). Pinned in the jig. Brazed off jig.

Not a bad approach, the typical single pin I think leaves too much play to do much more than attempt to hold the joint together. I don't like tacking as it leaves a lot of questions regarding the flux.

Cynikal 

Ah, got it. I'm interested in learning to pin for the reasons your mentioned. Although, tacking in the jig has not led to any alignment issues so far.