jamesdak 

Well with the Kestrel getting finished up finally I thought I'd do something fun with all these old C.F rides. I have 6 days in a row off and 6 C.F. bikes that are at least 20 years old. Decided to ride them all over those 6 days off as a back to back comparison to see which ones I like the best. Picked 50 miles as the distance for each bike and will ride them all on the exact same route. At least I hope so. Weather is supposed to be good so this should work out.

Bikes to be tested are:
2003 Colnago C40
1990's C4 Air One
2003 Kestrel 200 SCI
1990's Calfee Tetra Pro
???? Trek 5200
1999 Trek Y-77

Obviously this will be purely subjective based on how I have them set up and how they feel to me. In other words, total nonsense. LOL! All bikes have the saddle at the same height and setback in relation to the BB. The reach from the saddle centerlines and the bars centerlines is the same too.

This is the second day of this silliness so I figured I could share what I've noticed between the first two. Yesterday I took out the Calfee and today was the 5200. Now the Calfee is a bike I just haven't come to terms with. I had to try around 4 to 5 different wheel/tire combo's on it before I got it to feel decent to me. Before starting the challenge it was in the back of my mind that the Calfee wouldn't do well and would be up for sale shortly after the testing was over. Surprisingly I quite liked the ride on it yesterday. It was very comfortable the whole ride with only a few time on rough rides where I felt harder hits in the hands and/or feet. Back end never kicked me hard in the saddle. I felt like I was taking it easy the whole ride because I'm still not recovered from the TKR and I also need to be able to ride 50 miles for 6 consecutive days. Yet the 50 miles on the Calfee was done at the fastest pace of the year for that distance. The cold was also affecting my repaired knee by making it ache and sort burn inside the joint, must be the metal in there now. All and all I came around from this ride with a new found appreciation for the Calfee. I will say the older I get the more I like compact drops on my handlebars. The drops on the Calfee are a little deeper than I prefer now days.



Then this morning I took out the 5200. Now both of these bikes have Fiziz Kurve Chameleon saddles which I love. They also both have Zonda wheels with the Calfee running GP 5000 700 x 25 tires with latex inner tubes. The Trek has GP 4000s II 700 x 25 tires running butyl tubes. I ran the Trek 3 psi lower on both tires than I did yesterday with the Calfee. From the get go the 5200 was much harsher throughout the whole bike. Every road imperfection rumbled through the frame and into my body and this was the case for the whole ride. By around mile 43 I just wanted on this one because I was feeling beat up. The pace was slower today and it felt like I was working a lot harder just to try and run the same speeds on this I cruised at yesterday on the Calfee. I had some winds for the final 20 or so miles yesterday but today was totally calm. I also consumed 130 calories of solid food to day. But the whole ride this bike just didn't feel like it wanted to move as easily as the Calfee had the day before. I was more comfortable in the drops on this one though. Every since the wreck that damaged my AC joint in my right shoulder I've had issues with my left hand going numb a lot of times on my rides. None of that yesterday on the Calfee but it happened several times on the Trek today. The Calfee felt more stable in the front too whereas the Trek felt a bit too quick in the steering department a few times during the ride. Oh, and I wore leg warmers today to protect the one knee. No pain like the day before, I really expected today's ride to be the better of the two.




Anyway, so far the Calfee has proven to feel like a much better bike than the 5200 to me. We'll see what tomorrow and another bike taken out brings!

icemilkcoffee 

Just how many sets of Campy wheels do you have in your stash? Seems like every 2 days you put together another bike with another set of Campy wheels!

roadcrankr

Would be nice if you wore a heartrate monitor and timed each ride. Lends to an objective measure of sorts.

jamesdak 

I do for every ride I take. But my objective here is more about comfort and riding fun. If it matters the avg hr on the Calfee was 119 and 126 on the Trek. Max was 148 on both which shows I was not going hard since my avg HR on a hard ride is in the 155 range. Three minutes and three seconds faster on the Calfee despite obviously not working as hard. Of course, the body will probably get a bit more tired with each consecutive 50 mile ride so the Avg HR may keep creeping up. This really is just unscientific fun.

Both of these bikes were part of the "19 mph challenge" I do with all my bike and the Trek was the faster of the two then. But speed isn't ever thing when it comes to enjoying the bikes. Comfort, sounds the bike makes (or doesn't), looks, overall road feel, etc all come into play when I decide which bike to keep and which to pass on.

jamesdak 

I plead the 5th....

I do like Campagnolo/Fulcrum wheels and will snatch up any deal I can find on them. I offset that by selling off the old wheels. So many of the used bikes I pick up seem to come with Ksyrium's yet I feel faster on Zonda's. Used to not be hard to find Zonda's on sale for $300 range. Used Ksyrium's normally bring in $100-$200 locally so that makes it easy to upgrade.

In fact, just this morning I nabbed a set of new Zonda's overseas for $331. I'm tired of the C4 Air One feeling a bit lifeless with the Ksyrium's and bet the Zonda's will wake it up a bit on the road.

jamesdak 

Day 3 impressions while they are fresh in my mind. Today I took out the 1999 Y-77 Y-Foil that's built with a modern R8000 11 speed setup with some old Reynolds C.F. wheels running GP 4000s II 700 x 23 tires. I ran these 7 psi harder than what I had the Calfee at and 10 psi harder than the 5200. Saddle is a Fizik Kurve Snake which puts more pressure on my nether region than my preferred Chameleons.

From the start today the bike just wanted to go. It felt the raciest of the bunch so far. I had to keep telling myself to back off a bit. Overall comfort was on par with the Calfee and my magnitudes better than the 5200. I did notice more vibration in my feet on this bike than the others but that was the only comfort negative and it wasn't bad by any means. As usual on this one though, I do tend to rub my right heal on the chainstay a lot. I'm hoping this changes once I get that knee replaced in about a month. Front handling felt more neutral than the 5200 while grip in the turns felt better. I did have two incidents of slight rear end slides on loose gravel while turning. I think it was just me riding more aggressively because I was thoroughly enjoying this one. The feel in the seat of my pants was best so far to but that's to be expected with this one. But the total bike also seemed to float over the road imperfections better than the others. Fair amount of headwinds in the later half of the ride made the overall time fall in between what I did on the other bikes. HR avg 129 with a peak of 158. I attribute that to the winds and the fact that I just kept going hard on this one at times because it just felt so fun! I really love the shallow bars on this one too. I can stay in the drops for mile and mile on this one if I want to. Best overall ride so far for sure.


I have different saddle bags just for this bike so I can carry more than one waterbottle. The Varia radar works just fine pointed down this far also.

The real reason I took the time off was to enjoy the vivid fall colors.

There's one of those Specialized Allez Epics for sale about two hours away. If it was closer I'd grab it just to add it to this comparison test. I'd love to add a real early, skinny tubed C.F. bike to the shootout.

madpogue 

I'd lend you my '88 Ironman "carbon" if I could; then while you're not looking I'd go and snatch that Epic (grail bike....).

icemilkcoffee 

How much tire clearance is there in this Y-Foil?

jamesdak 

Not a lot! I noticed today that the rear tire is a bit squared off. I may test fit some of the new GP 5000 700 x 25 tires to see if they do fit since we know the old GP 4000s II 700 x 23's ran large.

But I'm also curious how the bike would feel with some nice Veloflex tires with latex tubes.

georges1

The 5200 is a mostly a triathlete bike,I tried a 5900 back in the days fast but so uncomfortable and regarding the steering it has indeed a quick steering.

Wildwood 

Awaiting the C40 impressions. Clearly the most (widely?) regarded by the majority of cyclists, and a bit newer, like the Kestral. I test rode a Kestrel for many hours about '98 or '99, wasn't so easy to test them if I recall correctly. I was pleased, the specifics escape me.


Impressed with the objectivity of your subjectivity.
Glad the Calfee came around for you. Obviously.


When can we expect an 'older titanium' comparison?

jamesdak 

?? 5200 has always been one of their road race competition frames, they had other tri specific bikes.

Funny thing is I was just reading reviews of it over on another bike site and so many talked about how much smoother it was. A lot of times in comparison to some aluminum bike.

Sedgemop 

I like this test. Might be more scientific (and more entertaining) than the GCN comparisons. Interested in the C40 also. If i was to go in a carbon direction, i might start there. This comparison might weigh on that decision. My experience with older carbon is very limited. I rode an 80's Trek 2300 for a good bit and honestly couldn't tell much difference from Trek's steel bikes of the period. Near sacrilege, I know.

georges1

That is interesting. Maybe was it due to the way of how trek manufactured its easton bonded aluminium frames

DonkeyShow

Interesting how highly the y foil rates. Had a bunch for sale on craigslist here in the past year. As always great posts!

jamesdak 

Day 4 impressions of the Kestrel 200 SCi....not bad. I'd put it behind the Calfee but not by much. It was WAY better than the 5200. Where the Kestrel seemed to shine today was the times I got out of the saddle to pedal. The bike just danced lightly while I was out of the saddle, almost disappearing out from under me. This one also feels great when I'm in the drops and seemed to pick up speed and carry it very well while I was tucked in. Really noticeable today because I was not riding well. I did feel more of the road imperfections on this one than I did the Y-Foil or Calfee. Yet it wasn't from hard hit's like when on the 5200. More muted with the bike feeling like it was flexing a bit to absorb the imperfections. Even the worse sections of road were not bone shaking like I experienced on the 5200. Now to be fair this one does have the biggest volume tires of the 4 bikes so far. The VIttoria Corsa 700 x 25 tires measured around 27 mm on the Zonda's with the front at 80 psi and the rear at 90. No available Fizik Kurve in my stash when I set this one up so today's saddle was harder than I like but the shape was ok. In fact, the saddle actually felt good the miles I spent in the drops.




Today's ride was the slowest of the week though. I don't blame that on this bike though. My legs were tired and sore before I even started today. Maybe I did not get my after ride nutrition right yesterday, maybe I did go to hard into the winds yesterday, or maybe I'm just getting old. I did do a similar week of consecutive 50ish mile rides about a month ago though and was fine until late into the ride on my final day. That week was done primarily on steel bikes so I wonder if these C.F. are just beating me up more day to day. Guess we'll see how I feel tomorrow.

Oh and glad the seatpost 's saddle clamp didn't slip at all today. I did a 25 mile shakedown on this Kestrel last Sunday and the clamp slipped a couple of times during the ride. I've got it really clamped down hard right now and that seemed to do the trick. Nothing like pedalling along, hearing a pop, and then your saddle angle is all wrong.

Eric F 

The 5200 was definitely considered one of Trek road race bikes - the budget version of the pro-level 5900. In the early-2000s, I had a couple of friends who rode/raced on 5200s and 5500s. My impression when riding them was that they felt "dead" or "muted" compared with my aluminum bikes, and even compared with my 2003 Time VX Special Pro...


The old Trek OCLV made great MTBs, however. I'm still riding this one...

jamesdak 

So...as I was getting the C4 ready for it's go tomorrow I decided to make a change. Never been a fan of the Ksyrium wheels despite always seeming to get used bikes equipped with them. They were also running old GP 3000 tires since this bike just hasn't gotten much love from me. So I dug around in my stash and found a brand new Veloce 9 speed cassette. I also found a set of the spacers that let me drop the largest cog off a 9 speed cassette, swap in these spacers, and viola! A 8 speed cassette that will fit on a modern Campagnolo freehub. So I grabbed some Cane Creek Volos wheels I had setting around and got ready to set them up with some new GP 4000s II 700 x 23 tires. The front fork on this does not allow anything bigger than a 23mm tire. That said that back has a ton of room. I looked around for a spare GP 4000s II 25mm tire but all I have are some 28's. I figured why not and mounted the 28 on the rear. Clears with more space all around than the 23 does up front. So...I guess I'll give this a go tomorrow with the new "shoes" and see what I think of it. This also dropped a whopping 3 ozs off the bike. That just has to make it better, LOL!

Really curious to see how this feels in comparison to the Kestrel since they were both early monocoque frames.

The bike with the latest changes waiting for it's shot at glory tomorrow.

juvela

-----

OT -

be there any difficulty with the TKR setting off alarms at security check metal detectors?

wondering if you would need to carry a radiograph around with you to show to security staff

thanks very much for this fun thread; have been enjoying following along with each test ride
a most excellent job of enumerating all of the details!


-----

jamesdak 

You know....I haven't thought about that. I used to fly a lot back in the day but haven't been on a plane in almost 15 years I guess. Hmmmm...have to check into this if I ever fly again. Especially with the other one being done in about a month.

SJX426 

I have this and no problems with detection.
P9081219 on Flickr

jamesdak 

Well...today did not go as planned. Rain was forecasted to start this evening and go through tomorrow. So I decided to do 50 on the Air One, then swap to the C40 and do another 50 miles.


I need a different seatpost on this. Either the nose is too high or the next notch and it's too low. Could not find a happy medium on it last night.

First was the C4 Air One. Legs were back up to speed today and felt fine the whole ride. It did get pretty windy halfway into the ride though but fortunately it was pushing me more than fighting.me. Anyway, ride impressions were surprisingly favorable. Yesterday I swapped the Mavic Wheels on this for some Cane Creek Volos wheels. Also went from old GP 3000s 700 x 23 tires to a newer 700 x 23 GP 4000s II 700 x 23 on the front and the same tire in size 700 x 28 on the rear. Space for more on the rear but the front is limited to 23's for sure. I also made a new 8 speed cassette out of a Veloce 9 speed to mount on these wheels and put on a new 9 speed KMC XL chain. The changes made the bike feel better than I remember it ever feeling. Front tire was 90 psi and the rear was only 80 psi. Overall impression is the bike was pretty smooth, smoother than yesterday's Kestrel for sure. Handling was pretty neutral on this one but when the strong wind gust hit it at an angle the bike was really knocked around. With the shallow rims I put on it with round spokes I've got to blame that on the frame profile and wide fork blades, I think was the second smoothest on the road, beaten only by the Y-Foil. Yet it never really excelled at any other ride aspect, speed, handling, feel out of the saddle, responsiveness, etc. So to me that takes this down a notch or two.




After the 50 miles on the C4 it was the Colnago's turn. Winds were still blowing hard and would be in my face for a lot of the first half of this ride. So I figured it would suck but at least the legs still felt fine. Initial impression was this bike was not as smooth as the Air One....yet it was. Hard to explain. I could feel the road surface and imperfections more and yet the bike was really still smooth and comfortable even though the feel was telling me it shouldn't be. Don't really know how to explain this. Winds did slow me down some but not much. The bike never felt unsettled by the winds no matter what direction the winds were coming from. This even with those wide spokes on the wheels. And unlike the Air One, this C40 just did everything so well. Spun up the first hills easily, took off under me when I stood and pedaled, sharp and precise in turns and took off like a scalded cat with little effort from the legs. This one has GP 5000 700 x 25 tires with latex tubes and I ran them at 80/90 psi F/R. Unfortunately right as I passed the 20 mile point in this ride the shift cable for the FD snapped as I crested a hill and went to shift back into the large chainring. Crap! The route for these rides is mostly level and trying to do a lot of miles on a 34T sucks. I did keep going for about another 6 miles but couldn't really generate a lot of speed as the chain would rub on the FD if I tried using the 3 smallest rear cogs. If it had been a standard 39 or 42 I would have kept going. In this case though, spinning a high cadence after all the miles I've done this week was just not working. Right hamstring and calf were not happy at all about it. So I would up only getting 36 miles on this bike but it was certainly enough miles to be able to accurately compare it to the others.

So, how do I rate these bikes now that I've done back to back rides on them?

1- Colnago C40 - Just does everything so well and has proven to be very fast in earlier rides.
2 -Trek Y-Foil - Too muted on the road to put it above the C40 but I will admit that my fastest Century ride ever was accomplished on this bike.
3- Calfee Tetra Pro- I'm surprised at how well it did comparatively. I guess it compares better to other C.F. bikes than it does against my good steel rides.
4 -Kestrel 200 SCI- Had to think about this. Not as comfortable as the Air One yet it felt so magical when I stood and pedaled as well as the way it seemed to effortlessly take off when I got into the drops.
5- C4 Air One- Another one that really never impressed me all that much originally. Maybe it's yesterday's changes or something but I was pretty happy with how it rode. It just didn't excel at any one thing.
6- Trek 5200 - This is another surprise. This one was second only to the Softride in my 19 mph challenge. Yet compared to all the others it was so uncomfortable. The only bike I wanted off of well before the ride ended.

I could really interchange the Calfee, Kestrel, and C4 to any of the other spots and feel like it was pretty accurate. The Trek 5200 was just a lot worse under me than any of the other rides.