QuangVuong

Thought I should post this here and see if someone could identify this one.

Spotted this on Sydney Gumtree. From the one non drive side image that was uploaded on Gumtree, I spotted a 6400 crank, then the brakes and levers. And the frame didnt look too bad. I knew I had to get it, cause it was so cheap.


Came home with a few surprises. Came with Cinelli Giro bars and stem, a FSA/Stronglight needle bearing headset, and a full 600 group. San Marco fluted seatpost. I never knew they made posts. Not as quality as the super thin walled Miche and 3ttt posts I've got though.

I had no idea what the frame was, but under my initial checkover it had Columbus dropouts and small clearance between the crown and brake bridge(pics here are with a 23mm tyre). Anyway, pulled it apart and now time to work out what it is. The frame weighs in at 1825g with a 650g fork. Fairly light stuff for a 54ST/55TT frame. No stickers at all, so no info on make, nor tubing.








Special features
- 6 straight *****s in the steerer. Thought it was SLX initially, but Im thinking it is the Ishiwata or Tange copy of the SLX rifiling. A bit hard to see in the pics, but Im sure someone will know what Im talking about. Which tubing would this suggest?





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QuangVuong

- Lug cut outs. These lugs extend further onto the tubes than others, and have a sort of sharp love heart cut out, and extra triangle cut outs on the heat tube ones. Was there a builder who created lugs like this?








The brake bridge doesnt look that unique.


Columbus dropout


No pantographing on the seat stays


Fork lugged crown


- Pinned lugs. In some pics you may be able to see some small holes in the lugs. These look like theyve been centre punched, probably to hold in the tubes. There is a nail or pin in the ST/BB, and DT/BB lug. Thats the only two, with the rest having nothing there. Was there a builder who used pins in these spots?

- BB cable guides. Brazed on guides, of a style which I havent seen before. Was there a builder who created this sort of guide?


- There were only 5 brazing heat holes. One on each fork leg 2/3rds of the way up, one on each seat stay neat the ST, and one on the chainstay bridge. Was there a builder who had this layout?

- Name and paint scheme on the steerer. S. THOMPSON and MARBLE RED. I believe this has a black base coat, then metallic silver 'marble' over that, and then it was clear coated red. Where the brake housing has rubbed the paint away, I can see metallic silver. If anyone can make it out in the pics, does the handwriting look familiar? It however isnt the original paint. There is a small patch of neon green in the seat tube, and in the BB shell. Another member has stated elsewhere that when he got his frame back from Kerry Hopkins, it came in the same paint scheme but blue and black. I don't know if Kerry was the one who painted it as well, or if it was sent out to one of the paint shops(maybe the local Star Enamellers?)

QuangVuong

'RED MARBLE'






'S THOMPSON' There may have been one letter before the S, but it was too faded to tell.


- 27.2 seat tube

- English headset and BB

I believe it had three rear brake housing guides, but the middle one was removed. I can see a small flat spot where someone mustve filed it down. The black/red paint is all intact, so this mustve been done before the repaint.

The groupset, if original, is dated to late 1990, early 1991. Rear spacing is measuring in at 129mm, so it prob has been stretched a bit, even though it had a 126mm spaced rear wheel in it.

With these pics, and general info, anyone know what it is?

The dude I bought it off had no idea what he was riding. Just the he 'rides it in either the hardest gear or easiest gear', and that the bike had some good bits like the Schwalbe tyres(which were lightly used Marathons), and that the rear brake doest work(only cause there were two broken spokes and the QR was open).

Anyway, got started on rust removal. Since its a marble paint scheme, it was easy to paint it without it looking too different. This was the chainstay, missing a lot of paint, more than Ive ever seen lost on a bike. There was some paint missing from the area behind the chainrings, and wheel rub.


Sand it down, and some nice looking metal appears. Nice and clean brazing too, so looks like a quality builder.


First the black coat. Cool paint that treats surface rust as well.




Painting random red marks was harder than I thought. Its hard to replicate the previous painter's random marks. But I reckon it blended in well enough.

QuangVuong

And done




As its still unknown, Ill make it my own for now.

bradtx

QV, I read somewhere that Tange and Columbus had some sort of relationship. Unfortunately I can't now find that link, sorry. My daughter had a Diamondback with a very similar paint scheme, perhaps an outside possibility. Congrats on matching the pattern!

Brad

OTS 

Wow, nice resto.
Good work man.
Enjoy, that frame is on fire !

Gary Fountain

Hi Quang Vuong,

Your red marble frame really stands out. Congratulations on such a good match of the original paint scheme too. It built up into an impressive bike and I love the QV on the front. Personally, I have absolutely no problem with you placing your initials on the bike and giving it a fresh identity. It's not like you purposely erased it's original identity and you are putting in every effort to identify it.

I doubt you will find the original identity but the markings on the steerer tube may prove fruitful.

I'm interested in the possible mix of tubes that have gone into the build. I had an Aussie built Hillman built by Gordon Hill. In an attempt to find out a little bit of history of the frame, I took it into Hillman's bike shop and they told me the original owner's name and when it was built from the serial number. Interestingly, It was built with Reynolds tubing and Columbus lugs and drop-outs. I asked Gordon why it was built this way and he told me that the tubes and lugs, etc, were what was at hand at the time the frame was built. There was no special frame builders recipe involved. I wouldn't be surprised that your frame, with a mix of tubes, may have had a similar origin.

My theory is that the frame was built in Australia by one of the many frame builders of that era. My absolute guess as to the frame builder - Kypo - only because I owned a similarly built frame.

QuangVuong

I've heard from someone who owns a Bundy(think it was Jim's), that when she brought it to the shop, Peter said that the bike was made from a whole mix of tubes. It was made from the leftover tubing that Jim had at the shop, or tubing that he scabbed from contracted builds. So it ended up being a mix of Reynolds, And Columbus tubes.

Similar to my Bundy which has a Columbus fork tip on one side, and a Campag tip on the other, and it's got a pair of Shimano uF dropouts. And it has an Italian BB shell. I'll have to bring that frame to the shop to see who made it. It's good stuff though, with no breather holes at all.

hopefully someone here knows something with the rifling. I also reckon its Aussie built, but can't single out a certain builder.

Gary Fountain

It's a very nice bike and you've cleaned it up extremely well. It's just so much fun trying to figure out why it was built the way it was built. I'd love to know who S. Thompson was? How unfortunate that Thompson is such a common last name. My guess is that it's a previous owner. It was probably put there by the painter. This leads me to another question - Why was it painted by a professional painter? It must have cost quite a bit. You probably wouldn't paint an ordinary frame so it must have been well loved.

CV-6 

Nice score, nice job on the refurb.

unworthy1

+1 on the great restro work, it really looks fine. No clue about a builder but 6 straight ridges in the steerer usually means Ishiwata, I believe, at least for that part of the tubeset. Tange also made steerers with 6 ridges, but not sure if any of them were straight or if all were spiraled (like Columbus' 5 ridges), but Tange stamped nearly every steerer they made, AFAIK.

rando_couche

The lugs appear to be Prugnat S4's. Very common back in the 70's. Cast bb shell. Lugs are nicely thinned, but not super profiled/reshaped. The overall finish quality points to hand made, if not stratospheric quality. Nice bike. How's it ride?

SP
OC, OR

JohnDThompson 

Six straight ribs indicates Ishiwata tubing 022 or lighter.


Source: Paterek Manual, 1st Edition

JohnDThompson 

Tange "Champion" steer tubes have six helical ribs:



Tange only stamped the steer tubes on forks they brazed (regardless of whether they used Tange's tubing); the tube sets shipped with unmarked steer tubes.

QuangVuong

We have a winner! Looks like it does indeed have Prugnat S4 lugs. I quite reckon its hand made, from no serial number, and the steerer threads not being notched. I had only finished it yesterday and haven't been out on it yet.

Looking at their catalogue, only the 017 and 015 tube sets have splines, and on that same page, the diagram illustrates only 5 splines. That's why I didn't think that it's Ishiwata. Then again, you've probably seen this stuff with your own eyes, and know more than me. So it's defiantly an Ishiwata 022 or higher tubeset/steerer?

Going off the weights, it's likely that it is 019 or 022.

maybe the seat stay taper will be useful too. It has double tapered seat stays(12mm-16mm-12mm).

Chombi

I've seen that "marble" pattern done by using crumpled plastic bags dipped in thinned down paint and then pressed against the surface to be "marbled" in random patterns....
I looks like some of the areas on that bike could have been done that way.

Narhay

You've done a good job on it. The gold chain is a nice touch.

Is the non drive seat stay dinged?