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Old 07-21-14, 02:48 PM   #1
Geo_08
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Shimergo Questions

So I find 8 and 9 speed shimano rear derailleur mechs readily available and have heard of the shimergo theory. I have read quite a bit and understand most of it, but I would like a pretty simple answer form people who have successfully done one of the two.

Run a 8 speed shimano cassette and RD with a 9 speed set of Ergos (if so new or old) OR
Run a 9 speed shimano setup with a set of 9 (unlikely) or 10 speed set of Ergos.

I love my campy bits, but for budget builds I would like to find a cheaper alternative that utilizes the same ergonomics.
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Old 07-21-14, 03:05 PM   #2
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I haven't used either of the combinations you mention but I have had very good luck with Campy 10-speed shifters and Shimano 8-speed cassette and derailleur. I've been using this combination for a couple of years and am very happy with it. No adapters or special cable routing required.
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Old 07-21-14, 03:09 PM   #3
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+1 to what Brent describes. I have three bikes set up with that combo (10-speed Campy Veloce brifters and 8-speed Shimano drivetrain), and shifting is great.
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Old 07-21-14, 03:17 PM   #4
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And you get the full 8 speeds with this? I thought I read somewhere you lost a cog.
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Old 07-21-14, 03:26 PM   #5
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Campagnolo 10 speed 2.8mm cable pull
Shimano 8 speed 2.8mm cable pull
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Old 07-21-14, 03:33 PM   #6
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I assume you've seen this page? LINK

It's all a geek needs to know. (or at least it works for me)
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Old 07-21-14, 07:30 PM   #7
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I assume you've seen this page? LINK

It's all a geek needs to know. (or at least it works for me)
I did see, but wanted testimonials, now I just need to find another extra set of campy 10s ergos.
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Old 07-21-14, 08:03 PM   #8
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Another vote for 10 Campy over Shimano 8. I've done it on three different bikes.

As the bard Billy Dee Williams would say, "Works Every Time!"
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Old 07-21-14, 08:47 PM   #9
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Combos that I've successfully used:

Campy 10 ergos pulling shimano RD over an 8 speed shimano cassette
Campy 11 ergos pulling shimano RD over a 9 speed shimano cassette (actually I used 8 of 9 on 7, but that's another discussion)
Rival 10 brifters pulling shimano RD over an 8 speed cassette, hubbubbed RD

If you happen to be starting from scratch, by the time you find all the bits, you can probably get a decent 105 gruppo from somewhere across the pond and enjoy 10 speeds instead. I used to be anti 10 due to some chain failures I had, but my current experiences have been more positive.

The "system" works best if you buy a 7-8-9 speed bike and want to upgrade to brifter shifting by spending the least amount.
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Old 07-21-14, 08:49 PM   #10
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I've bought Campy 10-speed Ergos from Buy Road Bikes & Parts at Ribble Cycles | Online Bike Shop. Excellent prices and often free shipping to the US.
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Old 07-21-14, 11:10 PM   #11
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11-speed Campagnolo works with 11-speed Shimano. It's true.
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Old 07-21-14, 11:33 PM   #12
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So thoughts on using a qs centaur ergo with a 9 speed ultegra FD. I can find the 2007 centaur QS levers pretty cheap and from my understanding they will still give me 5 down and three up per stroke in the rear.
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Old 07-22-14, 03:42 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geo_08 View Post
So thoughts on using a qs centaur ergo with a 9 speed ultegra FD. I can find the 2007 centaur QS levers pretty cheap and from my understanding they will still give me 5 down and three up per stroke in the rear.
No. QS Centaur will not give you the 5 down. QS Chorus and up will. QS Centaur is the "escape" shifter that was despised for it's lack of five shifts.

Your best bet is to either run a Centaur or Veloce Powershift 10 with a Shimano 8 set up... or a Shimano 9 setup (HubBub cable routing).
I prefer Campy Athena (also powershift) 11 driving Shimano 9 which is what I ride on my touring bike.

Campy 10 driving a Sram RD on a Shimano/SRAM 10 will work.
Campy 10 driving a Campy RD and a Shimano 10 wheel will work.
The last two I haven't tried but I trust the sources that told me it works.

Longer chain stays will give better shifting too... you're more likely to run into problems running Shimergo on a race bike with short stays.

But again, avoid Centaur QS. Either get Chorus QS, pre-QS Centaur/Daytona, or get the newer style powershift or ultrashift. If you want Ultrashift (5 and 3 clicks) then order Chorus from Ribble and run it with Shimano 9 (or the older style levers mentioned above).

Another issue with QS is that Centaur and below have a different cable pull and the QS FD has a longer actuating arm than the normal Campy (the newest generation Ultegra would work better, because it too has a longer actuation arm). You could always try Campy part FD-CE011 though which was designed for the 2009 FD with a shorter actuating arm to be used with the previous year's QS Centaur shifter.

FWIW, I run a 105 triple FD with my Athena Ergo and there is no issue with the powershift Athena. If you do go last generation Ergo, with the micro-ratcheting front shifter... you could probably get away with any FD because you have something crazy like 11 clicks to work with. I don't think that the Escape style shifters (Mirage, Veloce, and Centaur-QS) offer the micro-ratcheting... I could be wrong.

Last edited by headloss; 07-22-14 at 03:52 AM.
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Old 07-22-14, 04:03 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slash5 View Post
Campagnolo 10 speed 2.8mm cable pull
Shimano 8 speed 2.8mm cable pull
Individual cable pulls are more useful...

Errors in shifting are compounded by each shift, so for best results, you fine tune cable tension while in the middle cog.

The compounded results given in millimeters for Campy11-Shimano9:
[table="width: 500"]
[tr]
[td]
-1.0[/td]
[td]-0.1[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]-0.3[/td]
[td]x[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]-1.0[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
and for Campy10-Shimano8:
[table="width: 500"]
[tr]
[td]1.0[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]x[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]-0.5[/td]
[td]-2.0[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]



In either case, almost spot on except for the highest and lowest gears.

Last edited by headloss; 07-22-14 at 04:07 AM.
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Old 07-22-14, 07:58 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headloss View Post
No. QS Centaur will not give you the 5 down. QS Chorus and up will. QS Centaur is the "escape" shifter that was despised for it's lack of five shifts.

Your best bet is to either run a Centaur or Veloce Powershift 10 with a Shimano 8 set up... or a Shimano 9 setup (HubBub cable routing).
I prefer Campy Athena (also powershift) 11 driving Shimano 9 which is what I ride on my touring bike.

Campy 10 driving a Sram RD on a Shimano/SRAM 10 will work.
Campy 10 driving a Campy RD and a Shimano 10 wheel will work.
The last two I haven't tried but I trust the sources that told me it works.

Longer chain stays will give better shifting too... you're more likely to run into problems running Shimergo on a race bike with short stays.

But again, avoid Centaur QS. Either get Chorus QS, pre-QS Centaur/Daytona, or get the newer style powershift or ultrashift. If you want Ultrashift (5 and 3 clicks) then order Chorus from Ribble and run it with Shimano 9 (or the older style levers mentioned above).

Another issue with QS is that Centaur and below have a different cable pull and the QS FD has a longer actuating arm than the normal Campy (the newest generation Ultegra would work better, because it too has a longer actuation arm). You could always try Campy part FD-CE011 though which was designed for the 2009 FD with a shorter actuating arm to be used with the previous year's QS Centaur shifter.

FWIW, I run a 105 triple FD with my Athena Ergo and there is no issue with the powershift Athena. If you do go last generation Ergo, with the micro-ratcheting front shifter... you could probably get away with any FD because you have something crazy like 11 clicks to work with. I don't think that the Escape style shifters (Mirage, Veloce, and Centaur-QS) offer the micro-ratcheting... I could be wrong.
So I have a Veloce build on my Buenos Aeres, I am guessing they are 2009-2010 as they have ultrashift capabilities rather than powershift or escape. So my best bet is to look for another set of those, pre 2007 all levels or new Chorus/Record brifters? One of those groups will work ok with my 9 speed Ultegra Derailleurs and my 8 speed shimano cassette.

I was tempted to buy a new grouppo, but now the opportunity to finagle sounds so much more enticing.
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Old 07-22-14, 08:15 AM   #16
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If you have the 2009-2010 Veloce then you have a rare bird... finding another set two years ago would have been easy, not so much now. You can look around, but you might have to buy a powershift set and swap out the bodies. Which, all in all wouldn't be that bad. Figure you pay about $100 for a set of Veloce shifters from Ribble and then maybe $80 for the shifter body with ultrashift.

I think that's the best approach, assuming you like the feel of the newer levers. Of course, you never know what will turn up and where. I scored my Athena set from Amazon for $104, it hasn't been that cheap since but prices jump around. Eventually I'll probably upgrade to ultrashift but I wanted to get some mileage out of the right shifter first.

Sweet bike btw, I love the LeMonds. It could be the old style as I have no idea what years Veloce was good or bad; my knowledge doesn't go too much into the early to mid 2000s without looking stuff up.

I like the franken-group approach. It's a conversation starter. It forces you to understand your bike better. It works! and you get the best of both worlds. It's clearly not for everyone, but I enjoy the experimentation.

It looks like the escape nonsense didn't start until 2007. So avoid 2007 and 2008 for anything below Chorus.

Last edited by headloss; 07-22-14 at 08:29 AM.
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Old 07-22-14, 08:34 AM   #17
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It is a trek Lemond, I am working on a pre-trek steel BA. The one I have is an intersting bird as well. Steel for half the frame, carbon for the other, it rides nice though, great for my every day bike, but I think I am going to go carbon crazy with the gruppo on it. Just to match the frame, and move the chrome veloce kit over to a true Lemond.

The Franken-Bike kit is going on a Benotto I picked up as a parts bike. It came with DA single pivots (for sale), Ultegra 9 speed FD and RD, a chorus crank and a chorus hubbed front wheel. The old 600 STI's are just a bit sticky, which is enough excuse to move to my preference anyway.
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