jyl

Are IRD freewheels better than Sunrace freewheels?

dddd

The IRD looks more expensive to me, but that's not to say that the Sunrace freewheel doesn't look great on the bike, it does!

I've had some Sunrace freewheels over the years with somewhat rough bearings, coincidentally these were packed with thicker-thn-normal grease from the factory.

I've also has one or two Sunrace freewheels out of 20 or so that had a "tick, tock" rocking in certain gears. I had to open them up to adjust the bearings a little tighter.

The Sunrace freewheels are an unbelievable deal for the twenty dollars or so that they go for online.

Sunrace freewheel shown on top, Giang (IRD) freewheel shown below it.

ThermionicScott 

If you need a 5-speed 14-24 Sach-Maillard FW, I might be able to hook you up.

Darth Lefty 

I don't want to imply that I think this is a good business idea. But if it were to be done it would be best to go with presently manufactured freewheels for the body, probably the most popular or best selling Shimano. Only anything else if you needed French threading, a 13t top cog, or ultra 6. Then HG50 cassettes for cog donors, which presently have a lot of close-ratio options as part of the 2300/Claris road group. Looking at the PDF, the higher sprockets have speed holes so that might present some challenges.

Shimano PDF link for Claris HG50 cassettes

pastorbobnlnh 

I don't believe the cutouts on the cassette cog would present a problem when they could be modified for freewheel body use. There are enough splines on the Shimano/Sunrace type body to make up for any inexact spots.

Looks as if ebay has what I need to get started on this project. RMT Pneumatic Knuckle Press. It's local pick up only in CA. Can anyone facilitate?

SJX426 

As far as a business activity, I would defer to @pastorbobnlnh and give him first right of refusal! Pastorbob, interesting find. What are the specs? Be sure it has the "tonnage" to do the job. Nice option too!

Darth Lefty 

About the cutouts, I was thinking the much larger center hole required for the freewheel would be getting pretty close to them. They start at a minor diameter of just over 2"

Some handwavey math gives approximate power needed - 2" diameter x pi x .075" thickness x 50 ksi shear strength ~ 12 tons). I can't find any specs on that press, only links back to the auction and other listings of the same item. I will not pick it up for you. :-p

jimmuller 

I wouldn't touch anything labelled "Knuckle Press". Especially the pneumatic kind. Just sayin'...

Wogster

I think it would be better to build a freewheel/cassette adapter, then we could simply use cassettes.... Wouldn't help for 5 speed and 6 speed, although if you took a 7 speed apart you could build a 5 speed or 6 speed out of the parts.

rootboy 

Didn't the Goodfellas use one of those?

Darth Lefty 

An adapter won't work dimensionally. The freewheel thread on the hub is about the same size as the freehub splines, and so there's nowhere to put the adapter between them. The freewheel cogs need splines or threads that are much larger diameter. All in all it would just be easier to get a freehub wheel and use the cassette as intended, which gives you a stronger axle and better indexing anyhow.

Ultra 6-on-5, and 7-on-6 speed frankenfreewheels also wouldn't work dimensionally due to steps in the splines on the freewheel body that must line up with the cog spacing.

dddd

Any machinists with "spare time", take note:

What I investigated, all-too-briefly, is the possibility of using a contemporary PowerDome cassette on a freewheel body.

One would seemingly only have to enlarge the spline diameter in the flat-plate aluminum "driver disc" in order to engage the large-cogs spline on the freewheel body, then remove one or two of the smallest of the 10 or 11 cogs, then adapt a threaded cog or custom lockring to the small end of the resulting, shortened cassette.
For those unfamiliar with the PowerDome cassettes, the entire cassette is a machined, hollow dome with cogs machined into the outside. All power is transmitted through a removeable 2-d driver disc made of perhaps 5mm aluminum plate, which engages the non-driveside end of the freehub body spline.

The PowerDome cassettes are very expensive, but I've kept a few that customers were done with and which had only modest wear. They are made by SRAM, for use with their top-level gruppos (both road and mtb).

One might expect to possibly have to smooth over some of the protruding steps on a typical freewheel body in order to clear a PowerDome cassette, but the larger ones would likelyhave more clearance.

I am almost expecting to see that some entrepreneur comes up with an adapted PowerDome for use on some particular freewheel body, hopefully a Shimano 600 or lower model.
It would then be possible to fit a complete modern drivetrain along with some nice Nuovo Record or other fine freewheel hubs.

Darth Lefty 

Thanks for the idea... I found two photos of the back side of the Power Dome cassette. One version had a solid disk but there were some lines on it that make it look like it's a cover. These are the ones that you can see the company logo on the back of the cassette. Can't quite tell what's going on there, structurally. The other version had a spider cut into the lowest cog and it looks like there's not enough material there to enlarge the hole for the freewheel body, but that opens the possibility of an adapter. I think the dome probably needs the high-gear spline too, how would you deal with that end?

bbattle

If I were to buy a pile of those IRD Defiant 5-7 speed freewheels and use the cogs to build my own freewheels, they have 13-21 then the 24, 28, 32.

Then Sunrace has a 22T cog in it's 5-6 speed freewheels, would it be compatible with the IRD? https://www.sunrace.com/userfiles/products/specs/MFR.pdf

Sunrace also makes a 7-speed freewheel that includes the 23T cog. Sunrace R30 7-speed 13-25t Freewheel from BikeBling.com
Or I could use this Sunrace freewheel to start off at the 12T Sunrace R63 7sp cassette, 12-24t from BikeBling.com

So now I could go from 12-25 in single tooth steps. Not bad.

Somebody like Velo-Orange or Rivendell or Rene Herse might have the ability to get a 3-speed freewheel made. I've used the Surly Dingle on a SS/FG conversion I did with an old Raleigh Sprite frame and it worked very well. Adding one more cog shouldn't be that difficult, assuming there's enough demand. I think Sheldon Brown had an article about connecting a 3-speed cogset to a SA hub. Bianchi had a bike model not too long ago that did something similar; it gave the rider a lot of gearing they could select using only one hand.

Wogster

Really, the only bikes that will have a problem are those with a frame spaced for less then 126mm.... For me, I have one that is spaced at 126, and there is a 130mm hub on there now, nice advantage of a steel bike. So perhaps the real solution overall, is that when freewheels start getting scarce is to pull off the wheel, get a new wheel built with a freehub and put on a 7 speed cassette. Just like if your hub exploded, then just get a freehub wheel built, and put on a 7/8 speed and be done with it. Yeah the guy building up a museum piece that needs all original parts, will spend $5,000 for a custom built freewheel, but I use my bicycles to ride, so will just use the opportunity to move from 6 speeds freewheel to 8 speed freehub.

noglider 

@rootboy, are you paying attention?

Jeff Wills

Or get one of these new Suntour cassette hubs: Hubs ? SunXCD - Bicycle Components with 120mm OLD and squeeze the frame down.

CrankyFranky

Sorry, too easy!

ThermionicScott 

Wow, they've been busy since I last checked their site. Rims, derailleurs, even new 7/8-speed downtube shifters!

I know that Compass Cycles/Grand Bois also offer 120mm OLD cassette hubs (and custom cassettes) to go with them, but it's too bad no one is making 126mm/6-7 speed specific ones. Perhaps that's too narrow a niche compared to the folks with 120mm bikes who want cassette hubs without respacing.

Darth Lefty 

or maybe it's a wide enough niche to cram in a 130. Ho ho ho! I crack me up.

But also you can still get 126-spaced freewheel hubs, and the selection of normal-range freewheels is sufficient. I really think the market is pretty slim for what we've been noodling around here.

ThermionicScott 

Someday I'll just bite the bullet and stretch my bikes out to 130. But not until I have to, dammit!

nfmisso

Peter White still has 126mm OLD freehubs... scroll down to: "Seven Speed Shimano 105 SC (almost) Wheelsets " one this page: Custom Wheel Building At $50- a set; those in need can purchase a few set to stash away for the future.

ThermionicScott 

That's cool. I've got a stash myself -- I was opining more about the lack of current production. With good maintenance, the three 7-speed hubs I have in service (and something like 3-4 good used hubs in boxes) should last forever, or close enough to it.

Sorry to keep derailing this freewheel thread with talk of freehubs and cassettes, folks!

old's'cool

<--- What, me worry?

rootboy 

What's a freehub?