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1959-1961 Allegro Special

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1959-1961 Allegro Special

Old 08-01-14, 09:59 AM
  #26  
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This arrived yesterday:



I opened it.









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Old 08-01-14, 11:00 AM
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Strange that a 1961 bike would have Peter Sagan on the seat post. Something fishy here.
Originally Posted by rhm
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Old 08-01-14, 11:38 AM
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Very cool
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Old 08-01-14, 11:45 AM
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I think you should photoshop your face on to that seat tube decal, rhm.
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Old 08-01-14, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by juvela
does it have the ingot on the side of the seat tube with the serial number?
Yes! 165167

Originally Posted by juvela
one thing not seen in photos is the ch flag transfer. it is possible it was applied just below the "made in...." transfer and has been lost. or it may be beneath the license transfer. you could try gently heating the license transfer with a blow dryer to see if the adhesive could be softened enough to pull it off.
I did that, actually using an alcohol lamp for heat; the license came off in one piece, taking away only a little bit of the green paint with it. But no Swiss flag decal was revealed.

Originally Posted by juvela
not visible in photos is the housing stop at the south end of the dt to accept the stainless cable casing for the first generation record front mech.
Yes, that is there. Also an oil port in the BB. Seller included some of that stainless cable casing, I guess from the bar end shifters:


Originally Posted by juvela
had one come through from right about this time which was fitted with a luxe finish set of weinmann vainquer 999 brakes. the calipers are polished and then anodised and lack the recess for the red foil label. instead of a label the name is screen printed on the caliper arm. ttbomk this is quite a rare set.
Yes! That is a pretty fair description of the ones included. The WEINMANN VAINQUER 999 appears to be screen printed, as you say, but it appears to be part of the anodized finish; that is, neither above it or below it, but actually in it. Is that even possible? I cleaned one of them.


Originally Posted by juvela
have seen specials from this era with berthet pedals ...
Yes! Rusty, but nice pedals. English thread! One getting cleaned up, the other still rusty.

Originally Posted by juvela
pillar would have been a record with the old font size stamping.
Sadly, no seat post was included. Seat post size appears to be 26.8 or so, and there was a shim, so evidently the original seatpost has been missing for a while already.

Seller had already polished the stem. It's aluminum, not chromed steel.
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Old 08-01-14, 01:46 PM
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thanks very much for the new imagery rhm.

have not before seen one of these where the serial number ingot is placed quite like yours. on the other frames i had the opportunity to work with it is a bit higher, just below the seat lug, and directly on the side.

perhaps yours is placed the way it is to give room for the transfers.

sorry i did not respond to your saddle query. do not know what the oem model might have been. they were all changed, perhaps more than once, by the time they reached my workshop. this sounds like a question which could be answered by a catalogue or specifications sheet...

the adventure begins.
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Old 08-01-14, 03:17 PM
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I agree with juvela that a gs group would be appropriate for the bike. Works very well and isn't terribly expensive.

Is the BB Swiss? It will be a bear getting a period correct one. Either way, a Magistroni crank would be cool. Weinmann rims from the era are typically wood-filled, rare and expensive. I have a single, late 60s Weinmann rim that is not wood-filled and the decal is nearly exactly the same, you could get those instead to save a few bucks.

Should clean up real nice.
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Old 08-01-14, 03:49 PM
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Nice find, rhm! Should make the coolest saddle display stand ever.
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Old 08-01-14, 04:10 PM
  #34  
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On the BB, it came with the original Stronglight, which is beautifully made and not completely worn out. The spindle races are showing the beginnings of some pitting, but I think with fresh grease and new balls it will last a few more years. Yes, Swiss thread. So I think you'll be seeing a Stronglight 49D on this.

My chief concern, now, is the chrome. The chrome on the head lugs is not bad at all. The chrome on the fork crown is not so good. But the chrome on the fork and stays is really terrible. It won't polish up well; it's gone far beyond a little pitting. I'm thinking I have to dissolve the rust with oxalic acid and then fill all the pits with bondo or something, sand smooth, and paint. I'm not looking forward to this but leaving the chrome as is, I think, is not a good option.
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Old 08-01-14, 04:54 PM
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Bare metal has its charms.

Frejus004 by iabisdb, on Flickr
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Old 08-01-14, 06:56 PM
  #36  
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Well, wow, iab, I take your point. A lot of people would say that bike needs to be repainted. While I love the look, I might even be among them.

The paint on the Allegro is much too good to repaint. It has all its original decals and it mostly looks pretty great. It's just the chrome 'socks' that are beat to hell. Well, tell you what, I'll clean up what's left of the chrome, get the rust out, and post some more photos. I'll give all you guys a chance to weigh in on what should be done.

And then there's the issue with the top tube. It appears someone rolled a dent out, and did a pretty good job of it, but ruined a patch of paint. Then they repainted that section in a rather jarring color. Goof-off takes that new paint off; but under it is bright, freshly sanded steel. I guess I'll take off the rest of the new paint and try to match the original color a bit better, and see about giving it a 'smoked' finish somehow. This is going to be a challenge.
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Old 08-01-14, 07:01 PM
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rhm -

now that you have the piece to hand there is a small check you may wish to make. examine the ghost image of the front mech's mounting on the seat tube to determine if it were r or gs. because of the item's dating it could go either way. the early sixties specials i have seen were fitted with the first generation r front mech.

tulliana timelines typically give a launch date for the r front mech of 1959 or 1960. new components naturally reach the pro teams first and then a bit later make it to the lbs level. hence, there is sometimes a slight disagreement as to the exact launch date for a piece.

to find a gs (pushrod) front mech would be much easier and less costly than a first gen r example.

my oversight not to mention the lubrication fitting. the early sixties special i had possessed one also.

you have not mentioned if your 49 c/w set is hex or allen.

verot made ch fixed cups so that should not be a problem. the code for a verot ch fixed cup is eight flats and no rings. (they are not marked with numbers or letters) the code for the verot metric adjustable cup is six flats and no rings. the code for the verot metric lockring is six dogs. the spindle usually used for the 49 is nr. 120.

you are most fortunate to have received that beautiful philippe stem. they are noticeably stiffer/stronger than the ava and pivo models of the same era. in addition to their excellent finish and strength they have the advantage of having made stems with a 25.4mm clamp size. you might check yours to see if it is 25.0 or 25.4. the latter size would of course give a much greater selection of bend.

saddle - thought about your question. do not know what o.e.m. was. if it were mine i think i would go with a standard tron et berthet 90 in black with black rails. i know this is not very exciting. the beautiful tan and honey saddles we all love did not exist ca. 1960 so would not be period correct. another way to go might be with a 90-I. zeus made clamp parts to fit an I-series saddle to a campag r or zeus gs type pillar. another very interesting period correct saddle & pillar would be to go with a flat rail nitor set.

i'd better pipe down now. this is more than eno' for one post.

Last edited by juvela; 08-14-14 at 11:23 PM. Reason: correct spellin'
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Old 08-01-14, 08:34 PM
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Allegro. One of my favorite Swiss bikes. I'm especially fond of the late 50's- early 60s Allegros. Bobby Kemp is still with us according to Craig Griffiths, the Allegro guru.

Btw I have frame number 165182. Not much left of it as I recently transferred parts to a 1960 Allegro Luxe that I sold. Both Allegros were 'Bobby Kemp' models.
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Old 08-02-14, 11:36 AM
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I got confused when I saw this one on the bay:
Allegro 56 57cm Frame Touring Road Racing Bicycle Vintage | eBay

It doesn't have a visible decal, the seller says it is lightweight, I wonder if it is 531?
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Old 08-02-14, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by David Newton
I got confused when I saw this one on the bay:
Allegro 56 57cm Frame Touring Road Racing Bicycle Vintage | eBay

It doesn't have a visible decal, the seller says it is lightweight, I wonder if it is 531?
definite quality. likely the transfer has worn away. there are ghost images on the seat tube where transfers formerly lived.

rhm - note the ingot placement. this seems to be the more common location.
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Old 08-02-14, 07:47 PM
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Interesting, thanks for pointing that out. I've bought from that seller before. I like them.
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Old 08-02-14, 08:19 PM
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the frameset David Newton is enquiring about looks to be about 12-14 years later than the one rhm is discussing.

quite a bit has changed in the interim; lugs, shell, seatstay attachment, braze-ons, etc.

the transfers are not clear coated so the frame's tubing sticker must have rubbed away. looks to be quite straight and sound from what can be seen in the pictures.
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Old 08-03-14, 11:05 AM
  #43  
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The crank set I'm getting is a 49D with the allen head chain ring bolts. I'm not above putting hex head bolts in them to disguise the anachronism, though. In fact this bike will have to live with a certain amount of anachronism one way or another, since I have Record bar end shifters, a (nuovo) Record front derailleur, and even a record rear derailleur.

Juvela, you mentioned that I will be able to identify the original front derailleur be the marks in the paint. You are no doubt right about that. The frame is still at my office, so I can't check this now, but I can say initial inspection revealed traces of two different derailleurs mounted there. More on this later.

I have never worked up the courage to really try tubular tires. I understand why they are better in theory, and I even believe it, but I am cursed with bad luck with tires. I get more flat tires than anyone I know. This doesn't bother me much; I can patch a tube in my sleep. But fixing a tubular tire... I don't know. I will probably be putting clinchers on this bike; otherwise I'll be afraid to ride it.
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Old 08-03-14, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by iab
Bare metal has its charms.

Frejus004 by iabisdb, on Flickr
How do you keep this from rusting?
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Old 08-03-14, 12:35 PM
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Rudi, this is gonna be fun to watch.
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Old 08-14-14, 11:01 PM
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rhm -

wrt to converting your 49D chainset to hex head c/w bolts. the bolt holes for the allen version are larger than for the hex version so some creative adapting would be required. do not know how easily doable this is or if it would merit the candle... one would likely need to washer the bolt head; not a thing of beauty.

wrt tyres. if you elect to build a set of wired-ons two period correct rims would be the weinmann made in belgium w/ferrules and the fiamme yellow label. afaik there were no box section wired-ons made at this epoch. would recommend against the comparable ambrosio as they are relatively soft/weak.

all best wishes with this as it moveth forward.

Last edited by juvela; 08-14-14 at 11:25 PM. Reason: correct punctuation
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Old 08-15-14, 08:31 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by rhm
Yes! 165167




Seat post size appears to be 26.8 or so, and there was a shim, so evidently the original seatpost has been missing for a while already.


[/IMG]
I'd try 26.6, since that's more typical for metric 531 which is what I think you have here, and that's the size my mid-70s Allegro takes IIRC.
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Old 08-15-14, 12:58 PM
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Thanks, guys, for the bump!

I got a few more parts from the seller:



That's a 26.0 post (it was used with a shim) with a really nice Brooks seat clamp.



Note the cable end cap with a little set screw! I've never seen one of those before.



Juvela, on the crank, my plan --I haven't done it yet-- is to get stainless steel hex head bolts, M5 thread. I'll file the heads suitably thin and polish them to a mirror finish, and screw them into the allen wrench holes in the existing chain ring bolts. I may have to tap them first. Am I making sense? It's purely cosmetic, of course. When I try it, I'll know whether it looks good or not.

On the rims, there is no way I'm going to source period correct rims. Too fragile, and too precious. The wheels I'll put on this first are Campagnolo large flange hubs with Ambrosio Elite rims; if the rim decals bother me too much I may remove them and slap bogus Weinmann decals on there.

Unworthy, quite right, the frame does indeed take a 26.6 mm seat post. I think I have a Campy Record post in that size. But I might just use the cool chromed one, shim and all.

I'm planning a bike tour for the week after next, and all my bike fiddling is taken up with getting my bike perfect for that ride.... so the Allegro sits ignored for now.
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Old 08-15-14, 01:21 PM
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thanks very much for the update rhm.

sounds like things have moved forward.

in case you do build wheels, at some point down the road, it would be an opportunity to work in one additional ch part in the person of drahtwerke trefileries. there are labels for this manufacturer which one could add to rims or frame.

most excellent ingenuity on the c/w bolts. look forward to report of results.

true pillar size sounds spot on; AND you even have a tullio of the correct dimension to hand!
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Old 08-15-14, 01:27 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by uncle uncle
How do you keep this from rusting?
Car wax.
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