The C&V Disadvantage: How Big Is It?
08-18-14, 06:11 PM
#76
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Funny how that didn't inhibit one of the most powerful riders in the history of racing.
08-18-14, 06:13 PM
#77
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Nah... in this case, it's a Peugeot mixte that started off really original and stock, and I've been replacing components as they show their... unsuitability. Tires, rear derailleur, shifters, wheels, eventually the whole thing will be replaced. 
08-18-14, 06:19 PM
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Check her Hematocrit
08-18-14, 06:22 PM
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I consider it a performance gain because it has added a new dimension to my riding.
I was always more of a spin up the hill guy, and still am most of the time. But, having the out of the saddle option to get up hills has changed things for my riding. Out of the saddle climbing on the 760, I felt like I was dumping a lot of energy into the tires. Having swapped the tires from the new rig and the 760 as an experiment I realized that wasn't it. Something sort of feels like a dampening or absorbing effect on the trek that isn't there on the custom. I'm not even sure it's all due to the frame, might be the carbon fork vs the steel one or other factors.
Now that I have gotten more comfortable out of the saddle, I've been working on proper balance that allows getting up the hill out of the saddle without anything close to hammering (useful on the longer rides as it seems to use different muscles). I also have been trying to remain in balance when hitting it harder (but when I tire it is much more difficult). So these are two options I didn't use much before and one of those is available below AT. Spending a lot of time on indoor spin bikes, I've tried to focus on form (partly to make the indoor riding less dull). After having focused on it, I admit I am also more efficient at it on the 760 and do it on that bike more often. But it doesn't yield the same result.
The above said, I also value the "century ride" more than "stiffness". There are many stiffer bikes than what I ride that I wouldn't be happy with. Having a smooth enough ride with enough stiffness to be satisfactory is probably a different thing for everyone. When I say performance it's my personal take on it, difficult enough to describe and pretty much impossible for me to quantify.
I was always more of a spin up the hill guy, and still am most of the time. But, having the out of the saddle option to get up hills has changed things for my riding. Out of the saddle climbing on the 760, I felt like I was dumping a lot of energy into the tires. Having swapped the tires from the new rig and the 760 as an experiment I realized that wasn't it. Something sort of feels like a dampening or absorbing effect on the trek that isn't there on the custom. I'm not even sure it's all due to the frame, might be the carbon fork vs the steel one or other factors.
Now that I have gotten more comfortable out of the saddle, I've been working on proper balance that allows getting up the hill out of the saddle without anything close to hammering (useful on the longer rides as it seems to use different muscles). I also have been trying to remain in balance when hitting it harder (but when I tire it is much more difficult). So these are two options I didn't use much before and one of those is available below AT. Spending a lot of time on indoor spin bikes, I've tried to focus on form (partly to make the indoor riding less dull). After having focused on it, I admit I am also more efficient at it on the 760 and do it on that bike more often. But it doesn't yield the same result.
The above said, I also value the "century ride" more than "stiffness". There are many stiffer bikes than what I ride that I wouldn't be happy with. Having a smooth enough ride with enough stiffness to be satisfactory is probably a different thing for everyone. When I say performance it's my personal take on it, difficult enough to describe and pretty much impossible for me to quantify.
08-18-14, 06:24 PM
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The way i read the OP the change was in comparison between an older mixte and a hyrbrid vs a full fledged road bike. This alone can make the difference
IME a real road bike is clearly faster with less effort than an more upright bike whether new or vintage. Easily 2 mph at a casual speed (12 on the upright vs. 14+ on road) and the difference is greater at higher speeds.
based on various things I have read over the years I attribute this to better bio-mechanical position and better aerodynamics.
but the most important thing is what I imagine to be the huge, if bug spattered teeth, smile on person riding her new bike.
IME a real road bike is clearly faster with less effort than an more upright bike whether new or vintage. Easily 2 mph at a casual speed (12 on the upright vs. 14+ on road) and the difference is greater at higher speeds.
based on various things I have read over the years I attribute this to better bio-mechanical position and better aerodynamics.
but the most important thing is what I imagine to be the huge, if bug spattered teeth, smile on person riding her new bike.
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(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
08-18-14, 06:55 PM
#81
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Not much. Give anyone a new bike and they'll go hard the first day.
Same thing with that new pair of Gel Lites, Red Ball Jets, or Air Jordans.
If I'm by myself, I often ride my different bikes in different ways, so it's hard to compare.
I've been constantly increasing my PR speed on my workout run, no matter the bike.
However, I upped it 1.1 mph on my new bike, first ride, too much for just excitement.
I think it's easier to ride fast on that one. I can do everything harder, except pace myself.
There is no expectation that I'm going to bang around in a pace line on my Semi Pro (tried it, and it's HARD)
However, add 7 years and DT indexed DA, and I'll be right there with you on my De Rosa, so the weight difference is pretty moot.
My Wednesday night slugfest ammo is generally a carbon bike or my new steel bike.
If I'm going to run 2-minute hectic spots in front of a pace line, and hang on the nextr 10 minutes,
just to do it again, I want it to be without obstacle, bike-wise. Even if it's just in my head.
A P-51 can likely turn inside an F-15, but I'm not sure the P-51 will live to fight another day.
Same thing with that new pair of Gel Lites, Red Ball Jets, or Air Jordans.
If I'm by myself, I often ride my different bikes in different ways, so it's hard to compare.
I've been constantly increasing my PR speed on my workout run, no matter the bike.
However, I upped it 1.1 mph on my new bike, first ride, too much for just excitement.
I think it's easier to ride fast on that one. I can do everything harder, except pace myself.
There is no expectation that I'm going to bang around in a pace line on my Semi Pro (tried it, and it's HARD)
However, add 7 years and DT indexed DA, and I'll be right there with you on my De Rosa, so the weight difference is pretty moot.
My Wednesday night slugfest ammo is generally a carbon bike or my new steel bike.
If I'm going to run 2-minute hectic spots in front of a pace line, and hang on the nextr 10 minutes,
just to do it again, I want it to be without obstacle, bike-wise. Even if it's just in my head.
A P-51 can likely turn inside an F-15, but I'm not sure the P-51 will live to fight another day.
Last edited by RobbieTunes; 08-18-14 at 07:00 PM.
08-18-14, 08:15 PM
#82
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08-18-14, 08:21 PM
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I always wondered why he put up with one of those. I test rode a Vitus on an extended ride, yes it was flex, but it also took care of you, one was not going to arrive at the finish beat up riding one of those.
08-18-14, 08:25 PM
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Get some more!
Here's the Vitus converted to a 10 cog cassette, works a treat and keeps the old bike in service for reasonable $ w/ proper DT controls.
~20lbs ready to ride w/ clinchers, cages, computer etc.
Truth be told going from a 7 cog cassette gave me a lower range suitable for an elderly gent but preserved the tight ratios I've come up with, old race bikes are still fast race bikes in the right hands.
-Bandera
Here's the Vitus converted to a 10 cog cassette, works a treat and keeps the old bike in service for reasonable $ w/ proper DT controls.
~20lbs ready to ride w/ clinchers, cages, computer etc.
Truth be told going from a 7 cog cassette gave me a lower range suitable for an elderly gent but preserved the tight ratios I've come up with, old race bikes are still fast race bikes in the right hands.
-Bandera
08-18-14, 09:23 PM
#85
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You guys are funny. Most of you are hard core riders that have put in huge miles. You can climb a hill eating a Popsicle , that I struggle to climb. I have witnessed it on group rides. For most of you, I bet you see no difference at all between modern and old as far a speed. Your all in top shape with strong legs. I hope to get there some day. Hitting a hill for me with brifters does make me faster on the hill. It is not a placebo either. 
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My bikes: 1970`s Roberts - 1981 Miyata 912 - 1980`s Ocshner (Chrome) - 1987 Schwinn Circuit - 1987 Schwinn Prologue - 1992 Schwinn Crosspoint - 1999 Schwinn Circuit - 2014 Cannondale Super Six EVO
08-18-14, 10:50 PM
#86
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The trend used to be the stretched, longer top tube whereas today the compact frame makes more of a crunched body fitment. For those into riding an old steel bike, try going down in frame size or two. Expect a bit of compromise in comfort but you'll be surprised in performance gain. This goes for riders of all sizes. It might seem strange at first and you'll have to get a modern long seat post, but its quite a fun sensation.
She dug the bugs out for the rubber chicken dinner shot on page two, but the smile? Yeah. She loves that bike.
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A race bike in any era is a highly personal choice that at its "best" balances the requirements of fit, weight, handling, durability and cost tempered by the willingness to toss it and oneself down the pavement at considerable speed. ~Bandera
A race bike in any era is a highly personal choice that at its "best" balances the requirements of fit, weight, handling, durability and cost tempered by the willingness to toss it and oneself down the pavement at considerable speed. ~Bandera
Last edited by Fahrenheit531; 08-18-14 at 10:58 PM.
08-18-14, 11:52 PM
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I have never ridden a modern CF brifter roadbike. I'd sure like to.
Most of my riding is on C&V roadbikes with downtube shifters. My commute bike is C&V with Retroshifts (shifters mounted on the front of the brake levers).
On the downtube shifter bikes, especially the friction ones, I do find it hard to grab a fast shift when I'm pedaling hard, especially when I'm out of the saddle and suffering up a hill. In that situation, I lose momentum while shifting. More skill would probably make it better. I find myself struggling along in a less than ideal gear, just to avoid losing momentum. It doesn't help that some of them are six speed freewheels.
The commute bike shifts easily from the hoods but it weighs like 35 lb so that is a burden in its own right.
I am sure that if I had a 16 lb carbon wonderbike with 10 speed brifters, I'd be faster in some situations.
Then again, I am sure that if I drank less beer, I'd be faster in all situations.
Most of my riding is on C&V roadbikes with downtube shifters. My commute bike is C&V with Retroshifts (shifters mounted on the front of the brake levers).
On the downtube shifter bikes, especially the friction ones, I do find it hard to grab a fast shift when I'm pedaling hard, especially when I'm out of the saddle and suffering up a hill. In that situation, I lose momentum while shifting. More skill would probably make it better. I find myself struggling along in a less than ideal gear, just to avoid losing momentum. It doesn't help that some of them are six speed freewheels.
The commute bike shifts easily from the hoods but it weighs like 35 lb so that is a burden in its own right.
I am sure that if I had a 16 lb carbon wonderbike with 10 speed brifters, I'd be faster in some situations.
Then again, I am sure that if I drank less beer, I'd be faster in all situations.
08-19-14, 06:25 AM
#88
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I'm sure if the best riders of yesterday were competing today, they would want the same equipment as the other great riders of today.
Selecting any bike, old or new, should be based on intended use with a good understanding what's required by it's user on a case-by-case basis. I find my vintage bikes to be more than sufficient performers for the riding I expect to enjoy on the bike. I also enjoy the aesthetic of a older bike. Often when form equals function, the result is aesthetically pleasing.
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When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.
When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.
Last edited by Barrettscv; 08-19-14 at 03:22 PM.
08-19-14, 11:04 AM
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Recently I rode on a club organized two day, two hundred mile ride.
My riding partner was riding a modem racing bike, I was riding my Peugeot UO10 commuter bike.
The first day, I came in 30 min behind him, the second day I didn't try as hard and came in an hour behind.
So if we do some averaging.
one hundred mile average 45 minutes behind.
Ten mile average 4.5 minutes behind.
One mile average .45 minutes behind.
Now if this was a one mile sprint race, and I was 30 seconds behind,
I would feel like I got spanked.
In a ten mile road race and I was 5 minutes behind,
he would be eating my lunch.
But it's not a race.
When I got out and do a ten mile ride around my neighborhood,
I don't really care if it takes me three or four minutes longer.
Especial when we're talking about the difference between a
$300 bike and a $3,000 bike.
My riding partner was riding a modem racing bike, I was riding my Peugeot UO10 commuter bike.
The first day, I came in 30 min behind him, the second day I didn't try as hard and came in an hour behind.
So if we do some averaging.
one hundred mile average 45 minutes behind.
Ten mile average 4.5 minutes behind.
One mile average .45 minutes behind.
Now if this was a one mile sprint race, and I was 30 seconds behind,
I would feel like I got spanked.
In a ten mile road race and I was 5 minutes behind,
he would be eating my lunch.
But it's not a race.
When I got out and do a ten mile ride around my neighborhood,
I don't really care if it takes me three or four minutes longer.
Especial when we're talking about the difference between a
$300 bike and a $3,000 bike.
08-19-14, 11:24 AM
#90
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I'm with you here, and thanks for stating it so succinctly. My road bike is plenty fast, and aesthetically I love the simplicity of the classics. I don't expect to ever get into real racing, so the difference of a few pounds or a few seconds isn't life-or-death for me.
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A race bike in any era is a highly personal choice that at its "best" balances the requirements of fit, weight, handling, durability and cost tempered by the willingness to toss it and oneself down the pavement at considerable speed. ~Bandera
A race bike in any era is a highly personal choice that at its "best" balances the requirements of fit, weight, handling, durability and cost tempered by the willingness to toss it and oneself down the pavement at considerable speed. ~Bandera
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