morksmith

Hi

I have a 60s lightweight road bike (REW Reynolds) - it currently has a period correct Nuovo Record groupset on but after moving somewhere more hilly and recently buying a brand new Mercian with Campag Veloce I find the old brakes on the Reynolds fairly useless which does effect the ride (particularly my confidence on descents!).

I was thinking of fitting brand new Campag calipers (but keeping the original levers) to improve the ride but somebody suggested picking up the 90s Campag equivalent because the graphics are a bit more old school so won't clash - any thoughts? - is this a common thing to do? (it's not an immaculate specimen by the way, so i'm not defacing a museum piece).

Plus - will this be a straight swap or will my frame/forks need modifications (when I bought it it did have a few modern components including modern Shimano calipers which I spent a bit of money replacing with period Campag (and lost most of the braking power in the process)....


Thanks

chewa

I had this discussion with my neighbour the other day. He (not a cyclist but a classic car fan) thinks I should have left my '64 Scot with the original equipment on.

Instead, I have changed to 700c wheels and tyres and deep drop brakes as a result, changed to an 80's Campag chainset with mechs (and 80's DT levers). I can change it back to the 27 inch wheels, Weinmann CP brakes and a cottered Chainset, but, as I explained to him "I ride my bike so it's easier to have modern equipment".

I'd go for it.

Michael Angelo 

You can use these Tektro Brakes, they come in different lengths and colors, nutted or recessed mounting. The problem you'll have with the more modern Campagnolo brakes is that they are very short reach calipers.

TEKTRO USA

bikemore 

While there have been a significant improvements to bike components over the last 20 years, but far (IMHO) the most significant is brakes. If you are riding go for at least the 90s version. Original brakes should be left for show.

morksmith

That's so true - in the quest for originality has made for a less rideable machine - think i'm going to go for it when a pair of calipers comes up with the old Campag logo on them....

morksmith

Funny - my daily ride has got the larger old wheels and I was thinking of replacing them with 700c ones at some point - does it make a huge difference?

morksmith

Would you have the same issue with 90s Campag? - would like to stick with Campag if possible so it all matches on one level...

The Golden Boy 

I'd definitely do it- just make sure you have the reach.

I put a set of Tri-Color brakes on my 1986 Trek 400 Elance. I just figured "brakes are brakes- you put them on, your bike stops." The brakes didn't come close to reaching. I actually changed TO 27" wheels just to use those brakes.

Bianchigirll 

I disagree. While I do not have any '60s vintage brake calipers most of my bikes have standard single pivot sidepull brakes. I seldom find the need for more stopping power and in fact dislike the 'stop on a dime' power in the single set of DP brakes I am using. Now I do not live in a very hilly area but even on a three day tour around western Maine through Grafton park I only felt the need for more braking once.

How old are the brake blocks on you '60s era brakes? First thing I would try and replacing them with some Kool Stop blocks. Do the cables move freely?

Essthreetee

I replaced an old set of Universals on my Torpado with a brand new set of Campy dual Pivot. To me, they don't look out of place...in fact I think they match better with the Campy shifters and FD/RD.

I like dual pivots.

not_jason

The main thing you're gonna want to look for on a new set of brakes is that they'll have enough reach. Modern road brakes are intended for usually no bigger than a 700x28 or so tire with super tight clearance. 60s bikes, even the fast ones, tended to be built with a little more luxurious spacing, and often require medium to long reach.

I like new brakes, and there can be little doubt that there have been improvements in brake technology. Having said that, I'd put a well tuned set of old weinmann centerpulls up against nearly anything. Not easy to set up though.

Also don't underestimate the role levers play in your stopping power.

rhm

I'll add my name to the chorus that says, figure out the reach needed and get the appropriate Tektro dual pivot sidepull calipers. You may need a longer one in the rear than in the front. Having reliable brakes changes the way you ride, and makes everything more fun.

I don't mean to disparage all old brakes. The Resilion Cantlever brakes on my ca. 1940 Fothergill are excellent (unless you want to remove the wheel). But if the ones you're using seem insufficient to the task, try some new ones.

obrentharris 

I'm with Bianchigirll. Change the pads and make sure the cables move effortlessly in their housing. You may be pleasantly surprised at the improvement!
Then if you still decide to go with dual pivots you will have gotten an excellent first-hand education on the difference between the two styles.
Brent

John E

I concur on all points. Aero handles will give you 10% more braking leverage (and require 10% longer travel -- there is no free lunch where Archimedes is concerned). As BG noted above, nothing beats a new set of KoolStop salmon brakes pads, and possibly new cables and low-compression housings. Also, do not underestimate the importance of handle fit -- if your hands are small or medium, you will be much more confident with Weinmann or Shimano handles than with Mafacs, Modolos, or Campagnolos.

My Bianchi came with non-aero Modolo Speedy sidepull brakes. I replaced the calipers with Campagnolos just because I found some cheaply at a yard sale, and I had just built a set of wheels with Campagnolo hubs and rims to replace the Ofmega/Nisi combo it came with. When I got it, the bike was 20 years old with the original brake pads, so I put in a set of Shimanos because they looked so good on it. The first time I tried braking on a long 12 percent grade with a bit of mist in the air I realized I had made a very poor choice. I switched to Shimano areo handles for better leverage and shorter reach and a set of KoolStop salmon pads, and the improvement in braking was dramatic and reassuring.

The 1959 Capo still has its original Weinmann levers and centerpull calipers, with the traditional English setup of 610 length in front, 750 in back. Same story -- braking, particularly in the back, was "casual," but KoolStop pads improved this so much I did not need to switch to aero handles for the 10 percent boost. It does have modern low compression cable housings, but the disadvantage of 700C rims (622mm diameter), which reduce braking leverage by increasing the effective caliper length by 4mm from 27" rims (630mm diameter).

If you have cantilevers or centerpulls with adjustable yoke length (e.g. Mafac), adjusting the length of the yoke cable will let you do a bit of trading between braking force and required cable pull.

The biggest advances in braking systems have been in higher-friction pads (KoolStops), lower-compression cable housings, greater (aero) handle leverage, and greater (shorter reach) caliper leverage. You can obtain the first two, possibly three, on any bike. To get the fourth requires a drop bolt or equivalent, to facilitate installation of shorter-reach brake calipers.

Bianchigirll 

This may be helpful in determining fit. Thanks to whoever posted it for me.

morksmith

Mine are fairly lame – even in dry conditions it is more of a very gradual slow than a stop – I did upgrade to kool-stops and have asked two different LBS to adjust the brakes with only marginal gains...

jimmuller 

I'm with everybody. My older brakes stop me just fine, but some require more hand effort than others. Tektros have superb stopping power, perhaps more than necessary and enough that you have to use them carefully at first riding. If you get used to them you may think that an older brake isn't good enough. It's all a matter of perspective once you pass the plenty-good-enough-to-stop threshold.

fietsbob

Campag Single pivot brakes were made in 2 reach types and with longer , nut on the outside, or shorter, Recessed Nut center bolts .

I'm still OK with them [longer reach , long bolts on mine].. Kool top black pads in the same holders they came with wabac then ..

Bianchigirll 

You know you are basically comparing a '67 Graduate with 4 wheel drum brakes and no power to 2013 Camero with 4 wheel disc power disc.

Single pivot brakes worked great for 50+ years.

You did just use Kool Stop Campi style brake blocks right? you didn't put completely new holders (aka some new fangled low profile) stuff right?

RobbieTunes

I am in accordance with many others. If you're just looking at braking power, pads and an overhaul (disassemble, clean, assemble, adjust, lube).

Now, if you want to really get into a project, upgrading an older steel road bike, be aware, the farther you go back, the more years come off your life on the upgrade.
They are great projects, but remember, it's not just apples to oranges, it's old, different apples to genetically modified oranges.

crank_addict

Perhaps the OP is used to a newer bike and brakes but old brakes on an old bike are good enough for me. You have to fully service them, understand and have confidence in their use. It does take time for dismantle, lube and make all the pivots, joints, mechanism smooth - levers and whatever type cal's or cant's, good cable + routing. Decent formula, compliant pads obviously on aluminum rims are great improvements. Keeping the pads crush zone near the lower stronger portion of a rim and not at the top helps. Have no scientific study to note but I've heard low inertia, lighter wheels seem to benefit as well.

Anyhow, I prefer a modulation and 'feel' of the brakes vs. aggressive over powering brakes. A little harder to squeeze hand pressure and modulation is welcome. For faster riding and or enjoy letting it rip on descents, especially critical in wet conditions, I'll gladly take a modulating rear brake. Most of the braking force is done with the front but working the rear is really just as important. The two miniscule contact patch's of a bike tire's and the road, plus high center of weight is a hairy balance. As a matter of fact, I do ride with some having brand new high end road bikes and even in the wet on fast descents, can and do out-brake them on much older bike. Not saying who's more aggressive but its about who has more control.

(edit: open to suggestions on best pad for wet climate using aluminum rim)

Pars 

In deference to the Kool Stop NR block recommendations, I tried both the salmon and blakc and couldn't reliably get either to quit squealing, even with sufficient toe-in, etc.


I've since switched to the new production Campy inserts, after having had a set of Kool Stop Cross shoes on the bike. Wanted a more period correct look even though I really liked the Cross shoes. Put them on the Tektros on my commuter Trek instead. Love the new production Campy blocks. They seem to stop as well as the KS do. YMMV.

noglider 

@Pars, something is wrong, because as you applied the brake, the QR opened. Maybe you are pinching the cable in the wrong place?

Pars 

Not my bike, and no, my QR doesn't open (never did when they were squealing or any other time).

I think someone here had that problem with a QR at one time, not a squealing issue though. Their QR just opened by itself. Can't remember if there was a fix or not.

jimmuller 

IIRC, that was Velocovixen's mixte and I don't recall if there was a fix or what it was.