The Peugeot that waited 24 years for Doug to come back
10-01-14, 06:35 AM
#26
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I have a PK 10 from around 1980-81, bought from original owner that had purchased it in France. Mine has a Swiss threaded BB, so when I swapped the crank I found one that worked with the existing spindle width. Shimano rear derailleur fits and works fine with no modifications, it also has french threading on the freewheel, so swaps there won't be easy (I swapped out the wheelset on mine. It is a very nice riding bike, well worth any effort put into the rehab.
10-01-14, 07:03 AM
#27
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Harry Spehar (the guy who had final say over component specifications) was quite the Francophile and wasn't afraid to mix and match to get exactly what he wanted, so you find French components (derailleurs, hubs, freewheels, headsets, handlebars, etc.) on a lot of Trek models from that era.
10-01-14, 08:12 AM
#28
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Harry Spehar (the guy who had final say over component specifications) was quite the Francophile and wasn't afraid to mix and match to get exactly what he wanted, so you find French components (derailleurs, hubs, freewheels, headsets, handlebars, etc.) on a lot of Trek models from that era.
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1984 Gitane Tour de France; 1968 Peugeot PL8; 1982 Nishiki Marina 12; 1984 Peugeot PSV; 1993 Trek 950 mtb; 1983 Vitus 979; Colnago Super, mid-80's Bianchi Veloce, 1984 or 85 Vitus 979
Last edited by scozim; 10-02-14 at 05:04 AM.
10-01-14, 09:35 AM
#29
feros ferio
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I have a PK 10 from around 1980-81, bought from original owner that had purchased it in France. Mine has a Swiss threaded BB, so when I swapped the crank I found one that worked with the existing spindle width. Shimano rear derailleur fits and works fine with no modifications, it also has french threading on the freewheel, so swaps there won't be easy (I swapped out the wheelset on mine. It is a very nice riding bike, well worth any effort put into the rehab.
).
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"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
10-01-14, 10:28 AM
#30
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Interesting finding. A technical reason for this is not jumping out at me, assuming the same thread diameter and pitch, and the same coefficients of friction between the male/female threads, respectively between the axial face of the fastener and the axial surface of the crank. Are my assumptions incorrect; or do you have a theory or accepted explanation for the difference in the torque vs axial force, given my assumptions?
There is also more friction from the toothed surface on the integral washer, which further acts at a larger diameter than a bolt head acts on a washer (if present), so frictional torque is increased for any given amount of frictional force.
Lastly, crank bolts are 8mm diameter, so the frictional forces on the threads act at a larger diameter with the 10mm threaded stud on nutted spindles, so a higher torque results for any given amount of force pushing the crankarm onto the taper.
One more thing, the threads on nutted spindles don't seem to have the same material strength as the threads on crank bolts, so thread failure can result from very heavy tightening used to make up for the reduced pressfit force that nuts offer.
In summary, the nutted design is inferior to bolts, and nutted cranks should always be re-torqued after initial torque loading (as by riding or by jumping on the pedals with crankarms horizontal).
The scalloped "toothed" surface of the nut's integral washer surface is meant to somewhat make up for these nut's lack of crankarm-retention performance imo. The nutted design would seem to be designed for lower levels of service stress, so wasn't used on any real racing bikes that I am aware of.
Last edited by dddd; 10-01-14 at 10:51 AM.
10-01-14, 05:04 PM
#31
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ddd, I also do that on 2 of my Peugeots with nutted bolts.
After re-packing the BB, I re-tighten the BB nuts about 2-3 times at approx 50-75 miles each until they are finally "tight".
It is indeed an inferior design but I personally like to ride and tighten rather than put too much torque on the freshly tightened nuts.
It is a good heads up for those that just tighten and ride because the nuts will get loose and come off in the middle of a ride a long ways from home... don't ask me how I know...lol
After re-packing the BB, I re-tighten the BB nuts about 2-3 times at approx 50-75 miles each until they are finally "tight".
It is indeed an inferior design but I personally like to ride and tighten rather than put too much torque on the freshly tightened nuts.
It is a good heads up for those that just tighten and ride because the nuts will get loose and come off in the middle of a ride a long ways from home... don't ask me how I know...lol
10-01-14, 05:48 PM
#32
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The crank nuts require more torque than crank bolts mainly because of the threads being much coarser.
There is also more friction from the toothed surface on the integral washer, which further acts at a larger diameter than a bolt head acts on a washer (if present), so frictional torque is increased for any given amount of frictional force.
Lastly, crank bolts are 8mm diameter, so the frictional forces on the threads act at a larger diameter with the 10mm threaded stud on nutted spindles, so a higher torque results for any given amount of force pushing the crankarm onto the taper.
One more thing, the threads on nutted spindles don't seem to have the same material strength as the threads on crank bolts, so thread failure can result from very heavy tightening used to make up for the reduced pressfit force that nuts offer.
In summary, the nutted design is inferior to bolts, and nutted cranks should always be re-torqued after initial torque loading (as by riding or by jumping on the pedals with crankarms horizontal).
The scalloped "toothed" surface of the nut's integral washer surface is meant to somewhat make up for these nut's lack of crankarm-retention performance imo. The nutted design would seem to be designed for lower levels of service stress, so wasn't used on any real racing bikes that I am aware of.
There is also more friction from the toothed surface on the integral washer, which further acts at a larger diameter than a bolt head acts on a washer (if present), so frictional torque is increased for any given amount of frictional force.
Lastly, crank bolts are 8mm diameter, so the frictional forces on the threads act at a larger diameter with the 10mm threaded stud on nutted spindles, so a higher torque results for any given amount of force pushing the crankarm onto the taper.
One more thing, the threads on nutted spindles don't seem to have the same material strength as the threads on crank bolts, so thread failure can result from very heavy tightening used to make up for the reduced pressfit force that nuts offer.
In summary, the nutted design is inferior to bolts, and nutted cranks should always be re-torqued after initial torque loading (as by riding or by jumping on the pedals with crankarms horizontal).
The scalloped "toothed" surface of the nut's integral washer surface is meant to somewhat make up for these nut's lack of crankarm-retention performance imo. The nutted design would seem to be designed for lower levels of service stress, so wasn't used on any real racing bikes that I am aware of.
10-02-14, 10:13 AM
#34
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10-02-14, 10:40 AM
#35
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@Shp4man nailed it... another good reason to just keep all the original running gear and size down to compact-double style TA Cyclotourist rings for that crank, as RogerM has advised me.
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● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
10-02-14, 02:50 PM
#38
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the hanger changed to a standard, threaded one the following year.
when you 'charge' the upper spring of the simplex rd using the backing nut, max the tension by merely using your hands until you tighten it all the way with an allen key in the hanger bolt. more is better.
when you 'charge' the upper spring of the simplex rd using the backing nut, max the tension by merely using your hands until you tighten it all the way with an allen key in the hanger bolt. more is better.
10-02-14, 03:07 PM
#39
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What's that crank, a 49d? You know, you could get a 42-tooth triplizer chainring that would match that crank almost perfectly, or go as low as possible within the confines of the 122 BCD in a double by installing a 37-tooth inner in place of the ring that's there now.
I'm a little bit sheepish about mentioning that, since I make and sell those chainrings (Red Clover Components - Home). My mercenary instincts get the better of me sometimes. But I really do think that staying with an original crank does a lot to enhance the look of an old French bike.
I'm a little bit sheepish about mentioning that, since I make and sell those chainrings (Red Clover Components - Home). My mercenary instincts get the better of me sometimes. But I really do think that staying with an original crank does a lot to enhance the look of an old French bike.
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09-16-18, 11:52 PM
#40
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Nice PKN10. The frame color is different, but with a small brush + some red, white, black paint you could produce a Kaleido/Confetti version, show doug a pic of mine and see what he thinks......Just kidding! Don
Don
09-17-18, 04:50 AM
#41
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You'll have to modify the derailleur hanger to get a Japanese part to work as it has a different positioner peg. In defense of the Simplex/Malliard drivetrain, I can say I was really impressed with how quietly it shifted. No grinding or really any noise at all when shifting the rear derailleur. Running a new SRAM PC-870 chain.
I also think those tires look pretty good. First, they look like tubulars. Are there any markings on the tire? The sidewalls look dry, but they also look like very high quality tires. I'd inflate them on the rim up to about 40 psi, give the sidewalls and tread a good inspection. If the integrity is good and there are no leaks, go for inflating them up to about 95 psi and repeat the inspections. If they hold air for a day, the innertubes are latex rubber, and a major find! Or there may be a slow leak you should fix. If they stay inflated for a week, the innertubes are butyl, and have good integrity.
World Class Cycles sells Jevelot Tire Life and I think a similar product, which you can paint onto the sidewalls to seal the threads against damage due to water and abrasion.
09-17-18, 05:33 AM
#42
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I think those Simplex derailleurs are not the Simplexes that are reknowned for breaking. I would try them first.
I also think those tires look pretty good. First, they look like tubulars. Are there any markings on the tire? The sidewalls look dry, but they also look like very high quality tires. I'd inflate them on the rim up to about 40 psi, give the sidewalls and tread a good inspection. If the integrity is good and there are no leaks, go for inflating them up to about 95 psi and repeat the inspections. If they hold air for a day, the innertubes are latex rubber, and a major find! Or there may be a slow leak you should fix. If they stay inflated for a week, the innertubes are butyl, and have good integrity.
World Class Cycles sells Jevelot Tire Life and I think a similar product, which you can paint onto the sidewalls to seal the threads against damage due to water and abrasion.
I also think those tires look pretty good. First, they look like tubulars. Are there any markings on the tire? The sidewalls look dry, but they also look like very high quality tires. I'd inflate them on the rim up to about 40 psi, give the sidewalls and tread a good inspection. If the integrity is good and there are no leaks, go for inflating them up to about 95 psi and repeat the inspections. If they hold air for a day, the innertubes are latex rubber, and a major find! Or there may be a slow leak you should fix. If they stay inflated for a week, the innertubes are butyl, and have good integrity.
World Class Cycles sells Jevelot Tire Life and I think a similar product, which you can paint onto the sidewalls to seal the threads against damage due to water and abrasion.
09-17-18, 06:36 AM
#43
feros ferio
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I wish he would update -- as one can read from the thread, PKN-10s have a lot of fans (myself included). These are near-ideal all-rounder bikes.
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"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
09-17-18, 10:31 AM
#44
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My fault for reviving the old thread, I got sucked in clicking on a link in Thumpism's post re the the Cleveland cyclist who got his old Peugeot PX10 back years later. I was not paying attention. Don
Last edited by ollo_ollo; 09-17-18 at 11:17 AM.
09-17-18, 11:30 AM
#45
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It was fun re-reading the old thread, reminded me of my old PKN10 that I sold, and the PXN10 in a better size that replaced it, the one I never took a picture of even though it's been a fave rider for many years now.
It was a "molested" bike as found, the seat tube ever-so-slightly crushed by a shop stand clamp and the bars/stem changed to suit a seriously short-reaching rider.
But I persevered with it's roadworthiness right through the day I worked/forced an English-threaded UN-71 bottom bracket with it's alloy cups and shorter spindle into the frame's Swiss-threaded bb shell, a decision I've not regretted. The rear derailer wasn't original anyway (and it has a Campag-style hanger), so I put on a Sprint Accushift rear derailer to work with the original retrofriction levers and a 7s Uniglide freewheel I'd built for it. I'm sure the hub was English-threaded btw.
I'll be riding it through local rolling hills in a few minutes to see what the weekend may have brought into the Goodwill store across town, but Peugeot finds there have become fewer and further between these last few years.
It was a "molested" bike as found, the seat tube ever-so-slightly crushed by a shop stand clamp and the bars/stem changed to suit a seriously short-reaching rider.
But I persevered with it's roadworthiness right through the day I worked/forced an English-threaded UN-71 bottom bracket with it's alloy cups and shorter spindle into the frame's Swiss-threaded bb shell, a decision I've not regretted. The rear derailer wasn't original anyway (and it has a Campag-style hanger), so I put on a Sprint Accushift rear derailer to work with the original retrofriction levers and a 7s Uniglide freewheel I'd built for it. I'm sure the hub was English-threaded btw.
I'll be riding it through local rolling hills in a few minutes to see what the weekend may have brought into the Goodwill store across town, but Peugeot finds there have become fewer and further between these last few years.
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