Does the last vestige of C&V prejudice lay with the steel rim?
10-23-14, 07:07 AM
#26
Death fork? Naaaah!!
Campagnolo two-bolt seatposts and their clones.
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10-23-14, 07:08 AM
#27
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I agree with Scooper but as a bike flipper customers love those shiny chrome wheels on the old Schwinn bikes.
10-23-14, 07:32 AM
#28
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No, this thread is about the prejudice. The bicycle industry has inflicted a lot of crap on its customers including a lot of junk steel rims and the result is that people have a prejudice against steel rims. The factories that make rims are set up to extrude aluminum. I'm sure it would be expensive to set up the machines to roll cromo steel into a rim shape, but once the tooling is made, you could crank rims out plenty cheap. The reason they don't do it has more to do with prejudice than economics or function.
Yes, as you say, your understanding is limited
. Old aluminum rims were easily taco'd, and indeed you wouldn't want them; that was what was on your Clubman. I don't know how tough the steel ones are; all the ones I've ever seen were in excellent condition. That includes the 27" pair on the Norman Rapide now in Photogravity's hands; the 27" pair on the Raleigh Lenton Grand Prix now in RobE30's hands; and three 26" ones that are in my own hands but I'm not currently using.
Yes, as you say, your understanding is limited
. Old aluminum rims were easily taco'd, and indeed you wouldn't want them; that was what was on your Clubman. I don't know how tough the steel ones are; all the ones I've ever seen were in excellent condition. That includes the 27" pair on the Norman Rapide now in Photogravity's hands; the 27" pair on the Raleigh Lenton Grand Prix now in RobE30's hands; and three 26" ones that are in my own hands but I'm not currently using.
I'm glad I used the disclaimer! I don't pretend to know squat about the older stuff (or really anything).
10-23-14, 07:42 AM
#30
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I think the issue at that point becomes how much would such a rim cost, and why should we build it when an aluminum rim is cheaper and perfectly functional.
My limited understanding (very, very limited) about those Dunlop rims you've referenced is that they're easily taco'd. Perhaps the aluminum rims at that time were too, but I wouldn't want one of those either.
So - we have hypothetical steel rims that would cost more to make and steel rims that may have been comparable to aluminum 70 years ago. You'll have to forgive me, but I still don't want them. Steel Dunlop specials were actually the main reason I moved that clubman on to photogravity.
My limited understanding (very, very limited) about those Dunlop rims you've referenced is that they're easily taco'd. Perhaps the aluminum rims at that time were too, but I wouldn't want one of those either.
So - we have hypothetical steel rims that would cost more to make and steel rims that may have been comparable to aluminum 70 years ago. You'll have to forgive me, but I still don't want them. Steel Dunlop specials were actually the main reason I moved that clubman on to photogravity.
wherwhere they mattered.
Those went away of course, probably due to the onslaught of decent aluminum rims and or cost to produce and perceived value.
10-23-14, 08:00 AM
#31
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To make a steel rim you'd basically do the same thing. Feed a steel tube into one end of the machine and a series of rollers reshapes it into a rim section and then curls it around a mandrel of some kind. I presume a lot of heat and pressure are involved. Somehow the cut ends have to be joined, but I'm sure that isn't a problem even if it involves someone brazing them by hand. It can probably be done by machine. The whole process can probably be done by machine.
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10-23-14, 08:12 AM
#33
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52-46 is generally intended for crossover (1.0-step) gearing, such as 46/26, 46/23, 46/20, 52/20, 52/17, 52/14, which was the wide range Capo standard. I do not like it, either, being a half-step or 1.5-step fan, instead. In your example, I would have simply replaced the 52 with a 50, which would make a decent half-step lemonade out of the lemon you listed.
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"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
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10-23-14, 08:16 AM
#34
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Incandescent light bulbs pale in comparison to their LED brethren.
Rod brakes are dreadfully ineffective, as well, yet they are still produced in China.
The old black DiaCompe brake pads did not provide enough friction for safety, and some of their Weinmann and Mafac relatives were not much better.
Lighting and braking are where we have come the farthest, although I do agree regarding the steel rims.
I am still a diehard toeclip-and-strap fan, and I am keeping the original Agrati high-end cottered steel crankset on the 1960 Capo, but with 49-46 half-step alumimum Simplex rings.
No one mentioned helmets, but today's are vastly superior to the old leather hairnets, Skidlids, etc.
Rod brakes are dreadfully ineffective, as well, yet they are still produced in China.
The old black DiaCompe brake pads did not provide enough friction for safety, and some of their Weinmann and Mafac relatives were not much better.
Lighting and braking are where we have come the farthest, although I do agree regarding the steel rims.
I am still a diehard toeclip-and-strap fan, and I am keeping the original Agrati high-end cottered steel crankset on the 1960 Capo, but with 49-46 half-step alumimum Simplex rings.
No one mentioned helmets, but today's are vastly superior to the old leather hairnets, Skidlids, etc.
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"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
10-23-14, 09:25 AM
#35
What??? Only 2 wheels?
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FWIW, I still have the Cro-Lux rims which came on my UO-8 and they are as shiny and pretty as when they were new. No, they didn't brake very well in the rain. Oh, they'd do okay but it might take several revolutions of the wheel before the pads squeezed enough water off.
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10-23-14, 09:36 AM
#36
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I do like the Dunlop Special Lightweight rims that I have had. I did have one that had a fair number of flat spots, probably from some previous owner jumping curbs, and it was fairly impossible to get those out on a steel rim (though someone was willing to buy it off of me on eBay).
10-23-14, 09:37 AM
#37
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these don't rust:
and I use the Fibrax Raincheater brake blocks, with the leather strip produced for steel rims.
Still not as good as modern brakes, but I readily accept the performance difference and adjust my riding accordingly.
and I use the Fibrax Raincheater brake blocks, with the leather strip produced for steel rims.
Still not as good as modern brakes, but I readily accept the performance difference and adjust my riding accordingly.
10-23-14, 09:53 AM
#39
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Is this about C&V prejudice against individual parts, or against a system of parts, like old crap Huffy bikes?
Oops, my prejudice shows.
Oops, my prejudice shows.
10-23-14, 09:59 AM
#40
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I do like the Dunlop Special Lightweight rims that I have had. I did have one that had a fair number of flat spots, probably from some previous owner jumping curbs, and it was fairly impossible to get those out on a steel rim (though someone was willing to buy it off of me on eBay).
Okay, seriously, no. Rubber brake shoes just don't grip steel as well as aluminum. This appears to be true even where the chrome is worn away; braking on bare steel, or even rusty steel, isn't much better. KoolStop Salmons work pretty well as long as it's dry. It depends on the specific brakes and such factors.
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Last edited by rhm; 10-23-14 at 10:26 AM.
10-23-14, 10:19 AM
#41
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A Raleigh Sport without steel rims is...is...oh it just can't be!
10-23-14, 10:33 AM
#42
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Now that's funny RIGHT THERE!
---Note to self - REMINDER - This Winter for the DL-1 tourist.... Must replace the heaviest, useless, ugly rusty rims with 'purdy', lightweight, better braking (well at least hopefully w/ rod brakes) aluminum rims.
---Note to self - REMINDER - This Winter for the DL-1 tourist.... Must replace the heaviest, useless, ugly rusty rims with 'purdy', lightweight, better braking (well at least hopefully w/ rod brakes) aluminum rims.
10-23-14, 11:03 AM
#43
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Steel rims still have company:
Self extracting crank bolts
Stem shifters
Dork disc
Barely there helmets
Clipon pedals
53/42 13-17 aka the downwind special
SA coaster brakes
foam bar covering
plastic rd's
turkey wings
Self extracting crank bolts
Stem shifters
Dork disc
Barely there helmets
Clipon pedals
53/42 13-17 aka the downwind special
SA coaster brakes
foam bar covering
plastic rd's
turkey wings
10-23-14, 11:23 AM
#44
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I vote for crappy ribbon style bar tape with no cushion or grip.
10-23-14, 11:35 AM
#45
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
It is a fixed gear as well so with that and the front and rear brakes stopping is not an issue.
If one was building a wheelset with drum brakes these would also be a very nice choice as they do not rust and are very well made.
Arai and Ukai made some very high quality chromed steel rims which are best suited for hub brakes, the Dutch continued to use steel rims on the majority of their city bikes because they provide strength and steel can be straightened much more easily than Aluminium and the service life is many times longer.
10-23-14, 03:54 PM
#46
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The original point of the post was to point out that steel rims do divide the opinions of C&V enthusiasts. I thought that high tensile steel frames also divided C&V riders, but it seems to me, the arguments have mellowed somewhat. Most C&Vers have a certain indifference to hi-ten (dare I say respect) now, and are willing to grant frames made with it a place in world of C&V. Sure, it may be in domestic roles, like a rainy-dayer or grocery-getters, but it is a role, a spot in conversations. I don't think steel rims are granted the same tolerances.
10-23-14, 04:20 PM
#47
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I have a personal thing against reflectors. Just need to get them off any bike I own. Ya, safety issue, I know.
10-23-14, 04:22 PM
#48
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
Quite a number of my bicycles are built on carbon steel frames and although I may jest about them being gaspipe, they are here because I enjoy riding them so much.
10-23-14, 04:23 PM
#49
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
Steel rims and cottered cranks... and everything else is steel too.
