St33lWh33ls

Hello all, long time lurker, new member with a couple question before I get started on my restoration. My intentions are to strip the frame of all parts and send it to Waterford for a full restoration. I have searched this forum and have found most of the info I need concerning cottered cranks and missing part parts I need to complete the bike. The bike came with alloy wheels but I think I am going to go with some wood reproductions, so if anyone knows of someone I can send the hubs to have them build me a set it would be most helpful. The second question is a bit more difficult, the bike is presently what I would call seafoam green, this was a common color in the 50’s, and I have seen it on everything from old Stratocasters to Cadillac’s. When I look at some of the Schwinn catalogs, the early bikes came in three colors, white, black, and red, although I am not entirely sure you couldn’t get a custom color at that time. The later catalogs do not list colors so I am trying to gage what would be an appropriate color choice for the bike. I think the current color was a re-spray because I see no sign of decals or stripes of any kind. To be frank I am not a big fan of seafoam green, I was thinking maybe changing the color to black with a red head tube. Finally; I am trying to avoid common mistakes on this restoration so if anyone could provide a little insight on things they have learned from their restoration projects it would be much appreciated. I want to do this right so a little been there done that from forum members can help me head off some bumps in the road.

Thanks all,
Ken

iab

Cool bike, bigger and more photos would be better of course.

As for the wheels, contact Ric at Wheel Fanatyk, Wheel Fanatyk - Wheelbuilding Lore, Remarkable Tools, and Expert Advice. , he is the resident expert on wood wheels.

repechage

Wheel Fanatyk - Wheelbuilding Lore, Remarkable Tools, and Expert Advice.

An interesting project. I looked at that bike on ebay recently if I recall. It would be interesting if some of the original paint is hiding below the respray, on the fork steerer, inside the bottom bracket or seat tube, under the fork crown race.

Ed.

Not an expert, but I have my Father's dating to '37 or 8.

Were wooden rims fitted that late? Looks pretty complete but for saddle, post, and clamp bolt? It also looks like Lyotard platform pedals, I don't know that they are period correct. Scooper will be along to set that all straight.

Nice find. Richard Schwinn is a good guy and he'll take care of you.

iab

I doubt any post war top-end bike had wood rims. But if the OP wants wood rims, there is nothing wrong with that.

rhm

Could be, for sure. The really early ones look like this:

I'd presume the Paramount has the later version that was (according to Velobase) introduced in the 40's:

St33lWh33ls

Hey folks, good info already and exactly why I posted this thread. I am not tied to wood rims, like I said I have been doing a lot of research and found an ad for a 50’s Schwinn P-32 on EBay. The specs state “Optional best grade laminated wood rims, or tubular aluminum for tubular tires.” The weight spec says “tubular tires and wooden rims ---20 lbs.” Could this have been a transitional period for wooden-aluminum rims? I checked the Waterford catalogs and I can’t find the same spec sheet.

John E

I would love to get a set of Lyotard pedals, or their modern equivalent, if one exists. I did have a set of SunTour platforms, until one of them cracked, and they were delightful with the old Avocet touring shoes or with just about any shoes.

St33lWh33ls

Pedals are pretty corroded, have not had an opportunity to clean them up yet, but the only thing I could make out on them was “made in France”. Stem is marked Titan, the bars are marked Ambrosio Champion and Frejus. Crank appear to be original Schwinn, don’t know about the hubs, they are pretty corroded.

rhm

What are the existing rims? If they aren't ruined, I'd probably stick with them. They are closer to original than anything you can get today, the have a connection to this bicycle, and you already have them. Rebuilt with news spokes and new tires on the same hubs, cleaned up ad polished, you'll have a very nice set of wheels.

schwinnderella

i wonder if that could be original paint. I had a Schwinn Superior from the same era which was originally blue but faded to that color.

kylarr

I would like to echo this advice.I say this because the seller had some other wheel and rim auctions from the same estate sale going while this bike was running and there was a lot of nice stuff. I saw a few sets of wood filled rims and some early Fiamme red labels. If what you have is anything like that I would try to save them, they are really hard to find. I won a set of wood filled Scheerens laced to unknown hubs from the guy.

I do really want to build a set of wood rims for one of my bikes someday though, period correct or not.

pastorbobnlnh 

Great score and welcome to C&V. I'm looking forward to more pics and the restoration, so don't abandon us!

When you contact Waterford, ask for Richard Schwinn's recommendations on colors. I'm certain they have some experience with other re-paints from this era and can offer appropriate guidance.

Those hubs look original and should be salvageable. They are worth a pretty penny, along with the stem, etc.!

St33lWh33ls

Forget what I said earlier on the “made in France” pedal marking, that pedal was on the other frame I bought. Here is a shot of the Paramount pedal…

iab

I looked at the rims on ebay. They look fried. I would definitely keep them, but I don't think I would want to ride them.

I recognize the decal but the name escapes me at the moment. No doubt they are original to the bike. Rare like hens teeth.

rhm

Yup, looks like a Lyotard" Marcel Berthet" pedal, made in France. I know it seems a crazy thing to say, but that may clean up pretty well.

St33lWh33ls

I purchased both bikes from the seller so I have 4 different make alloy rims and they are all heavily corroded. I don’t really care if the wheels are the same brand, I imagine like any other type of racing if the part is usable it gets used. I have no doubt that I can clean them up and use them, but here’s the thing, all the decals are badly damaged and I don’t think I can save them; are there reproduction decals available for vintage rims? Wheels are Cerchio Clement, Weinmann, Fiamme, and Vianzone Torino.

I am going to start another thread for the other bicycle (Carbine track bike) in a bit to try and figure out what year it was made. The only thing I could find online is that it’s Australian made and most likely vintage 50’s like the Paramount.

St33lWh33ls

Paramount EBay photos

Paramount 01

Paramount 02

Paramount 03

Paramount 04

Paramount 05

Paramount 06

Paramount 07

Paramount 08

Paramount 09

Paramount 10

Paramount 11

Paramount 12

MrCoffee

Looks like you have a lot of work on your hands!

cb400bill

'Tis cool.

St33lWh33ls

'Tis rusty...but a little less so everyday.

rhm

That is beautiful!

St33lWh33ls

Thanks RHM, I was looking at the cranks and chainring on your beautiful Fothergill which in turn made me go and compare the 51 Paramount cranks to my 70 Paramount cranks, the size difference is almost comical. It’s pretty cool to compare the technology of the two bikes. There are still a lot of tiny black specks in the chrome, I don’t know if I should leave it as is and chalk it up to character or to re-plate. The chainring definitely needs some plating help.

St33lWh33ls

Well the Paramount is stripped of all parts and I am going to box it this weekend and send it off to Waterford. I have been struggling with color choice, but after much consideration I have decided to keep the original color. I found and purchased an adjustable Schwinn stem, but I need to find some bars that are similar to the “Goullet type racing”, something steel and similar profile; if anybody has any ideas it would be much appreciated. I have a vintage aluminum Reynolds seat post but I think the original was probably steel, I found one that I think is correct with the Schwinn script and it is 9 inches in length as outlined in a spec from the Schwinn catalog but I will have to verify the diameter when it arrives.

I have been scouring the internet for good photos of vintage Paramounts and found a lot of great images for reference. There are some great photos of a blue 37 Paramount on this page along with some fellow named Oscar Wastyn Jr. I wonder if Jr. brazed up my 51. The shots of the BSA cranksets are going to be useful as well for my Carbine restoration. I think my BSA chainring is hosed, there is a crack on the “A” and the ring itself is dished, I’m reasonably sure it is supposed to be perfectly or at least reasonably flat. I guess it can be welded and hammered with a rubber mallet or pressed flat.

ASVintage

I am going through the same process with my 40's ish track bicycle. Second bike I took the Waterford. They are great. Two oldies shown on the links below.



https://www.flickr.com/photos/316405...7645736415391/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/316405...7628621319035/