Fishy Hunter

Hello All - My first post here. I'm an old school peddler. My sister no longer wanted her black/white frame Tange 2 Nishiki Prestige bike. I bought this for her some 25 years ago...and she really never road the bike (so I traded her this bike for a mountain bike). The components are Suntour Cyclone group with Tange G brakes. The bike is a 6 speed friction shifter. The original brown Araya brown 600 rims are still on there. I assume this is a freewheel cog and hence my question...

Is there a way to upgrade to a new index group or maybe and NOS ultra 7 speed shifter and 7 spd ultra or reg spaced freewheel and 7 speed rear derailleur and shifter?

I don't know much about the newer bikes. I'm pretty much old school riding my 86 blue Allez SP Jim Merz (needs new 600 brake hoods now) and my 83 Somec Special (with Suntour Superbe) around town once in while.

Any input would be nice on how to upgrade the Nishiki. The condition is almost new with some pitting on the headset.

Thank you
Fishy

zukahn1 

The Nishiki Prestige is a nice bike you should be able to upgrade to 7 speed indexed or friction fairly easy with the screw type freewheel and current spacing, you would just need to get some parts. A newer 8/9 speed wouldn't work readily with the wheel and rear spacing. I would probably stick with the cyclone stuff it is really nice and upgrade to a modern ramped 7 speed freewheel and 8 speed chain which should give you exceptional shifting with your current DR's and shifter.

upthywazzoo 

Agree with above. There is nothing that needs upgrading on this bike. Just throw a new FW on there and hit the road.

Fishy Hunter

Thanks guys!!!

I thought since my Cyclone RD does not have a cable adjusting nut, I can't use the current RD and only have to buy a 7 spd SIS shifter and 7 freewheel for the conversion...I'm I wrong?

I do see some 7 speed Cyclone 7000 RD on ebay..but do I buy a regular 7 or ultra 7 freewheel? Is there a hub measurement to take if I remove the freewheel?

Thanks again...big help. I post some pics of the bike on Friday.

Trakhak

You're not wrong. Those posters were saying that you might want to consider sticking with friction shifting, since Suntour Cyclone equipment was considered to be pretty good stuff in its day.

Fishy Hunter

Got it..either keep the friction components and get a 7 speed freewheel cog, or upgrade to SIS shifter, SIS RD'r and 7 speed cog.

Thanks guys

tk1971

With the friction shifters, you can go all the way up to 9 speeds (with a new rear wheel with free hub).

After having my Nishiki almost factory stock for several years, I felt the urge to change it up. I've been modding my Nishiki using leftover parts from other builds. This is what mine looks like so far:









Still shifting with friction. Got new tools and learned how to add thread to steerer tubes too. Lots of fun.

Fishy Hunter

TK - I like your ride. So you used a 9 speed cassette & hub/wheel set and what type of shifters are those? That was all you did for the upgrade? No issues on spreading the rear dropouts to fit the wider hub?

Here is a pic of the Nishiki Im going to upgrade for either my daughter or for me (a bit small for me). I also thought of doing what you did..but had a hard time finding index shifters for a 6 speed. But your post has given me a new direction...thanks!

tk1971

My Nishiki currently has a 135mm rear wheel (Maddux Aero F40 wheelset), so I had to cold set the frame from 126mm (following Sheldon Brown's excellent writeup). The cassette as seen in the pictures is a SRAM PG-830 (11-32t) 8 speed mountain cassette. The rear derailleur is an 8/9 speed XTR mountain derailleur (medium cage, I think RD-M950). Currently, I had swapped the PG-830 with a CS-6500 9 speed road cassette (11-25t) and using a used / leftover 9spd SRAM PC-951 mountain chain. In fact, I think I can probably slap an Ultegra CS-6600 10 speed cassette on that hub and make it work. The stem is also much lower than in the picture above. The crankset is an FSA Omega compact (52/36) I scored on eBay for $40 with external bearing BB.

I'm still using my Cyclone front derailleur that came with the bike and the shifters are the famous Suntour Power Thumbshifters (friction, but does click/ratchets when pulling cable). I'm using the stem that came with the bike, a used Titec titanium flat handlebar, Ergon GP-1 grips, and wine corks (one each from Pinot Noir and Merlot).

Here's a link of when I first got the bike, restored it, and decided to turn it into a triple.

My first roadbike - Nishiki Prestige

For these shifters, as long as I stick with stuff that uses the same or less cable pull, I'm good to go.

I like the color scheme of your Nishiki. Mine has turned out into a street eating machine in its current setup. Very aggressive and agile. While riding, I almost forget that its a roadbike and have caught myself beating back the urge to hop off curbs. With 700x23c tires, it would not be a pretty outcome.

Fishy Hunter

Very nice...I like the bike's feel and the way it rides...really smooth for a small bike...actually feels better than my old school Allez and my Somec. I might try the 7 speed upgrade first. Interesting that you used an XTR RD on the bike. Makes sense if you want to use the throw of a MTB gearing.

I'm more of a Ripple and Musketel wino person...so I'll have to keep looking for those cork grips...wait they may be plastic when I come to think about it.

I'll dig some items out and see what I can do..I have my old XT thumb and also rapid fire shifters...that might work.

tk1971

The RD doesn't matter, as long as it can cover the entire cassette sweep for the full amount of cable pull on the shifter and has the capacity for the max amount of teeth on the gears I want to run. Even if its a couple of teeth short, it could be ok, because how often would I would be in the big / big gears front and back, right?

As far as I have tried, 6, 7, 8, and 9 speed road and mtb cassettes/freewheels work equally well with the downtube shifters and the Suntour Power Thumbshifters. My XTR RD operates exactly the same as the Ultegra RD-6500 (which I eventually moved to another bike) with my friction Thumbshifters. I've tried them on 6, 7, 8, and 9 speed cassettes/freewheels without issue.

I really like my thumbshifters. I liked them so much, I got my brother in law a set and installed it for him on his vintage Schwinn Super Sport.



Here are the shifters on my Nishiki when I had them on Nitto Noodle bars.

Fishy Hunter

TK Nice, did you change the handle bar on the prestige to drop down bars (different from the previous pics with the MTB bars) or is the last pic a different Prestige? Thanks for the info of the RD (the more I know, the better decision I can make on what to do. I don't have that many parts to explore with different scenarios and to experiment different parts. Most of my parts are old school MTB parts.


There is a classic old school ride the 1st Sunday of every month for old school bikes that is about a 24 mile morning ride through Pasadena. I have not tried to ride with these guys yet, but that is one argument to keep the Nishiki as stock as possible for these fun rides (which the Prestige mostly is stock, except for the pedals). But again, with a 70's Raleigh 531 bike with Huret RD, early 80's Centurion Le Mans, and Somec and the mid 80''s Allez SE, I don't have any issues with finding an old school road bike around.

I'm not allowed to post for something to buy...hence Im going to ask here....so, can anyone tell me where I can buy/find those little rubber brake center plugs for a Shimano or Suntour Superbe brake caliper?

Thanks..Fishy

tk1971

The drop bars were on my Nishiki just before I put the flat bar on.

Sorry can't help with the brake parts, since my knowledge is limited to stuff I have, and my Nishiki came with Dia Comp brakes.

Just give your vintage MTB parts a try. A mountain freewheel along with the mountain derailleur will likely work very well. As for the shifters, you may have to get creative on where to mount those on the narrow race bars that come on the Nishiki.

If you move the shifters from your downtube to the handlebar, you'll need as set of shifter stops:
Shimano Stops For Flat Back Shift Bosses > Components > Shifters > Shifter Small Parts | Jenson USA

Friction shifting is so buttery smooth... so, why do you want indexed shifting again?

Fishy Hunter

Hello TK,

Thank you..and you are correct, the frictions shifters on this bike is really smooth. My Nishiki also has Diacomp G brake set. I was asking around for the rubber plug for my Allez.

I did buy a set of the downtube cable converter from Open Road a few months ago...but thank you. I like the set you show..mine are painted all black.

Thank you...Fish

Fishy Hunter

Hello TK - I would like to know if you are interested in renting me your spread tool? If so, please PM me, I can't PM you as I do not have enough post.

Thanks
Fish

tk1971

I don't really have any dedicated "tools" for the job.

Did you read this?
Bicycle Frame/Hub Spacing

I used Sheldon Brown's method of spreading and aligning. To align the dropouts, I rigged up some all-thread and slid some piping on both ends (used as grips) to align the dropouts.

Note: That's two pieces of all-thread, not one, shown in the pictures below.

After spreading the rear with the 2x4 (per Sheldon Brown's method), I secured two pieces of all-thread to each of the dropouts (with bolts and washers). I just measured and made sure that the total overall length of the two pieces sticking inside where the axle would be, totaled up to my new wheel's axle length (135mm).

I just grabbed the ends of the two pieces of All-Thread and twisted to bend the dropouts until the two pieces on the inside (representing the axle) lined up with one another. The pics show how close I got it. It looked like one continuous piece when done.





You mentioned a bike ride in Pasadena. California? If so, I'm local to you, so you can give me a holler if you need help. I can PM you contact info.

Fishy Hunter

[/QUOTE]You mentioned a bike ride in Pasadena. California? If so, I'm local to you, so you can give me a holler if you need help. I can PM you contact info.[/QUOTE]

TK - Yes Pasadena CA
From their website
Velo-Retro: Rose Bowl Ride

"The ride starts at the Rose Bowl in Pasadena, California the first Sunday of every month. We meet at the pool/picnic area parking lot at the southern-most end of Brookside Park at 10:30 am to introduce ourselves, talk vintage bikes and swap parts. The ride starts at 11:00 am.

The ride is a casual-paced 25 miles long through Pasadena, South Pasadena, San Marino, Temple City, Arcadia, Sierra Madre (stop at Bean Town for ice cream, coffee or lunch), Altadena, and back to the Rose Bowl for more vintage bike talk. The ride is mostly flat with one moderate climb (fixed gears are fine in other words). The ride has been going on for the past fifteen years, rain or shine, whether anyone shows up or not (usually there are between three and twenty five riders). Everyone is encouraged to bring and ride a 1985 or earlier bicycle, but feel free to ride anything you have."

After talking with TK (big thanks TK) I decided to just get the bike running with the parts I have from my parts box and just see how the bike rides. I rode the Prestige to work today..the bike weighs in at 23.5# and rides much nicer than my 30# Nishiki Pinnacle. The Prestige is still pretty much the same as when it was bought...but the seat and the brake springs are very hard. I might change out those two also.

Thanks TK for your help.

tk1971

That looks great.

Looks comfortable and nimble on the streets.

Fishy Hunter

TK - Did you see the information about the Vintage bike ride in Pasadena the 1st Sunday of each month?

tk1971

Yep. I've filed the info away for "future use".

My riding has been limited to the early AM on Saturdays. I've got 2 little ones, so I need to spend as much time as I can with them.

Most of my rides lately have been the mountain climb up the San Olene fire road from Santa Anita Ave, with the occasional road ride on the San Gabriel River trail.

In almost all my rides, I try to be home around 10am, so mountain biking works especially well (a good workout climbing, in a small amount of time).

I'm in the middle of my next build that I plan to dedicate to the San Olene ride. It's going to be a 1990 Specialized Rockhopper with a Midge drop bar specifically made for off-road use, and some beefy 2.2 tires.

CycleryNorth81

"I'm not allowed to post for something to buy...hence Im going to ask here....so, can anyone tell me where I can buy/find those little rubber brake center plugs for a Shimano or Suntour Superbe brake caliper?"

O rings for brakes:
2 New Campagnolo Shimano Dia Compe Brake Set O Ring Same Size for All Rubber | eBay

Fishy Hunter

Sorry...not those O rings rubber piece..The one that goes on the center mount nut...not the cable nut. I don't even know what they are called. The rubber plug fills the little Allen concave hole at the front of the brake.

I'll try to take a pic of the one I currently have.

Thanks