Playing card symbols in bikes...
11-18-14, 09:07 AM
#26
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I don't know when your frame was made (unless I see a serial number). And yeah, I used the parts occasionally during the transition era. It's not like GM where we have model years and end of season blow-outs on leftover inventory. Yours could be a display frame that sat around a while after manufacture.
Apologies - but I'm a persnickety reader. The letter to VN said that you were tired of them by 1980, not that you stopped using them in 1980. I was tired of bartending when I was 28, but it still took until I was 30 to escape it!
I guess the real part of my question becomes were they occasionally used after 1980, perhaps as a custom request, or is my Sachs roadie earlier than I believed it to be?
I guess the real part of my question becomes were they occasionally used after 1980, perhaps as a custom request, or is my Sachs roadie earlier than I believed it to be?
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11-18-14, 09:16 AM
#27
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I don't know when your frame was made (unless I see a serial number). And yeah, I used the parts occasionally during the transition era. It's not like GM where we have model years and end of season blow-outs on leftover inventory. Yours could be a display frame that sat around a while after manufacture.
11-18-14, 01:01 PM
#28
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Why?
Because Cinelli had already claimed the circles.
Brent
Because Cinelli had already claimed the circles.
Brent
11-18-14, 01:43 PM
#29
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"Because" makes a lot of sense to me, and that's what I had suspected. It's a fun and fanciful set of shapes.
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11-18-14, 01:51 PM
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They are definitely a cool design element. I'm kind of glad to hear that that's all they were, just style.
11-18-14, 03:12 PM
#32
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Hm. I guess this specific topic has already made the rounds here (with awfully similar results, btw 
):
2008: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...ing-cards.html
2005: https://www.bikeforums.net/singlespee...uits-lugs.html
No deep and abiding significance lurking beneath the surface of a fairly ubiquitous design motif, seems to have been the consensus then, too...though some mention of various bits of lore.
The general play on associations around the combination of luck and skill required both by card games and competitive cycling, along with possible intimations of the notion of an 'ace' rider or 'ace' builder (as suggested by Ernesto Colnago's story, posted above...whether true or not), could be credible enough as a basis for the initial idea.
Apparently found on a 1949 advertisement, according to a post in one of those earlier threads:
"Pokerissmo: no matter how you deal the cards, Bianchi and Coppi are victorious."
It's too bad that the link in the old thread to what a couple of posters claim is the first example of deployment of card suits in branding, the ad with the above slogan (a couple of decades before some European maker sold those playing-card fork reinforcements to RS) would appear to be dead.
Cool to see e-Richie here to make clear the story of those reinforcements and their dissemination among US builders, especially given that links to that story, in some of the earlier threads, are now dead as well. Maybe not as exciting a story as some of us might have liked (for us there's still the 'lore', I guess), but good to get it straight from the source.
):2008: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...ing-cards.html
2005: https://www.bikeforums.net/singlespee...uits-lugs.html
No deep and abiding significance lurking beneath the surface of a fairly ubiquitous design motif, seems to have been the consensus then, too...though some mention of various bits of lore.
The general play on associations around the combination of luck and skill required both by card games and competitive cycling, along with possible intimations of the notion of an 'ace' rider or 'ace' builder (as suggested by Ernesto Colnago's story, posted above...whether true or not), could be credible enough as a basis for the initial idea.
Apparently found on a 1949 advertisement, according to a post in one of those earlier threads:
"Pokerissmo: no matter how you deal the cards, Bianchi and Coppi are victorious."
It's too bad that the link in the old thread to what a couple of posters claim is the first example of deployment of card suits in branding, the ad with the above slogan (a couple of decades before some European maker sold those playing-card fork reinforcements to RS) would appear to be dead.
Cool to see e-Richie here to make clear the story of those reinforcements and their dissemination among US builders, especially given that links to that story, in some of the earlier threads, are now dead as well. Maybe not as exciting a story as some of us might have liked (for us there's still the 'lore', I guess), but good to get it straight from the source.
Last edited by mikemowbz; 11-18-14 at 07:11 PM. Reason: typo
11-18-14, 03:58 PM
#34
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By the way, @e-RICHIE, thanks a lot for weighing in. It is an honor for us.
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11-18-14, 03:59 PM
#35
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ditto - really admire your work!
11-18-14, 07:40 PM
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I see a marketing possibility for tshirts now that just say,
"Because"
-Richard Sachs
"Because"
-Richard Sachs
11-19-14, 04:33 AM
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"I have wondered that myself. Conversely, why do playing cards have Bicycles on them? "
About Bicycle - The History of Bicycle® Playing Cards
Regards,
J T
About Bicycle - The History of Bicycle® Playing Cards
Regards,
J T
12-04-14, 02:12 PM
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Have to hold a seance for that answer.
His spade design did change though, the shape he used in the few Italian bikes that can be found imaged on the web are different, more like what Colner used or seen on those fork reinforcements.
His spade design did change though, the shape he used in the few Italian bikes that can be found imaged on the web are different, more like what Colner used or seen on those fork reinforcements.
12-04-14, 06:59 PM
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Well it made me laugh! Thanks!
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12-04-14, 09:07 PM
#43
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lots of large mens underwear thrown on the stage this evening.
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12-04-14, 09:19 PM
#44
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12-10-14, 09:20 PM
#45
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hi. i sent an email off to Mr CIOCC, Giovanni Pelizzoli, and i asked " the fork crown has a club, spade, heart, diamond, and there are club cutouts on the lugs and bb. Colnago has clubs, DeRosa has hearts. why did you and the other builders use card suits? ". the response came from his son, and he said " I asked myPapoand he confirmedthathe usedthe seedsof the cardsbecausehe said it wasthepoker acesto beat ". so, sounds like there may have been a little superstition in the choice of card suits.
12-10-14, 11:39 PM
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Let's see if this works..
IMG_8742 by tremoloi1965, on Flickr
De Rosa 1978c by tremoloi1965, on Flickr
IMG_8545 by tremoloi1965, on Flickr
IMG_8742 by tremoloi1965, on FlickrDe Rosa 1978c by tremoloi1965, on FlickrIMG_8545 by tremoloi1965, on Flickr
Last edited by tremolo1965; 12-10-14 at 11:45 PM.
12-11-14, 12:13 AM
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I think some companies like Colner were essentially a copy of Colnago, and thus while they chose a different card symbol, they copied the card idea.
Now... The question is why the Italians didn't use symbols from the Italian deck of cards.
Now... The question is why the Italians didn't use symbols from the Italian deck of cards.
12-11-14, 07:14 AM
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Too close to Tarot cards?
12-11-14, 09:53 AM
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