Kolton

Hi all. I have a late 70s/early 80s Peugeot PX-10 or PY-10 that I'd like help identifying. I have attached a picture. Any insights would be most appreciated.

bikemig 

We need better pictures esp. of the drive side and close ups of the major components. It's also good to take the pics in front of a less busy background (white garage doors tend to be a favorite for that reason).

I like the old school ideale saddle (a 2002?) and the hooded mafac brake levers; looks like a PX 10 in pretty unmolested shape.

noglider 

My guess is PX-10 from about 1976.

oddjob2

Rear wheel is a replacement? Front rim appears to be a Weinmann 415x or Concave, Nuvo Tipo hub, a replacement as well?

The Mafac hoods I am familiar with only cover the top of the lever, not surround it.

What are your objectives, ride it, buy it, or sell it?

miamijim

+1. '76 '77 '78 look for date codes

bertinjim 

Kolton-

A PX 10. A PY typically had more ornate head lugs (sometimes with chrome), downtube bottle braze-ons and braze-on Mafac brake pivots.

verktyg 

The sell date is not a good measure of the manufacturing date because a bike could have sat around in a bike shop for a long time. This is especially true of the smaller and larger size bikes because they were slower movers.

I'd say that it was a late 1974 to 1975 PX-10 based on the Stronglight Model 99 cranks which they came with for about a year.

Stronglight introduced the Model 99 cranks about that time for touring bikes which were starting to gain popularity. They could use a 28T small chainring and be easily converted to a triple.

1st generation Model 99 cranks



1976 Stronglight flyer showing the Model 105 and Model 99 cranks.



In 1974 some top of the line French performance bikes started showing up with Stronglight 99 cranks: Peugeot PX-10, Bertin C37 and so on.

About the same time Stronglight was replacing their venerable polished Model 93 cranks with the new anodized Model 105 cranks. I suspect that Stronglight had shut down production of the Model 93 cranks but were having problems with the cosmetics of the anodizing on the 105 cranks.

This is a common problem with some aluminum alloys, the finish comes out splotchy when the alloying elements are not completely mixed into the aluminum when it's molten.

My guess is that the aluminum Stronglight had on hand or they were being supplied with would have worked perfectly with polished cranks but not on the anodized 105 cranks. If that was the case, Stronglight would have had to go back to their supplier or find another source to get better quality aluminum. This could have taken many months to accomplish.

In the mean time, they started supplying Model 99 touring cranks for use on racing models until the problem with the 105 cranks got resolved.

We sold Bertins and other French bikes at our shop and were concerned about the rigidity and stiffness of the Stronglight 99 chainrings because of the small 86mm BCD. There was a large unsupported area between crank arm spider and the chainring teeth which could allow the rings to flex when pushed hard (especially when compared to Campy 144 BCD and Stronglight 122 BCD rings).

Yes, I know there were Stronglight 93 cranks showing up on some new bikes until at least 1977 but there may have been a lot of them left over in the supply pipeline or Stronglight started "cranking" them out again!

By 1976 French performance model bikes were coming with Stronglight 105 cranks (and Japanese cranks).

Since several others have already made suggestions, I wasn't going to say anything about posting photos of you bike, but just in case... I'll take this opportunity to introduce my modesty products for bicycles (as in modesty skirts for dogs).



For those easily embarrassed by the obscene, dirty, technically complicated right side of the bike showing the drivetrain, I offer my modesty accessories for bicycles:

Bike modesty skirt.



For extreme modesty - the bike burqa.





verktyg

Chas.

lostarchitect 

They definitely made full hoods as well, I have some on a bike.

verktyg 

MAFAC made full hoods in both black and gum colored rubber.

The black hoods originally came with the MAFAC Competition brakes and branded versions such as those with Peugeot stickers in place of Competition in the recesses on the face of the calipers.

Original Corse 128 version levers with the same large metal brake cable adjusters found the half hoods on old style Competition brake levers.



Newer version Corse 218 levers with "drillium" holes stamped in. Many of these type levers had black plastic bodies. The material used was tougher than Delrin plastic. These levers eventually came with either black or gum hoods.



Two versions of 3rd generation MAFAC Competition calipers. The straddle cable was the main difference. Also the first version didn't come with the wheel guides that were originally used on the MAFAC 2000 brake calipers. These calipers were originally only available in silver anodized. Eventually they came in gold anodized too.



The gum hoods originally came MAFAC 2000 brake sets. They had "drillium" holes stamped into the levers plus were made with 2 different styles of brake cable adjusters.



MAFAC 2000 calipers were available in both silver and gold. They came with wheel guides which was the original difference between them and the Competition calipers.



Confused with all the info? Me too....


Odd thing about the gold anodized MAFAC brakes, BITD, we couldn't give them away! Today the sell for a premium!


verktyg


Chas.

John E

My 1980 PKN-10 came with very nice B9(?) Stronglight cranks and 122mm BCD drilled chainrings. Do you know how long Peugeot used these?

verktyg 

John,

"B9 was the model number for a Stronglight alloy headset." I'm mistaken! There was no B9.
See my message below. There was a B10 plastic Stronglight headset.

A9 was the model number for a Stronglight alloy headset.



This is a PKN-10 from a 1981 Peugeot catalog. The PKN-10 bikes were different in some markets. Some were different quality levels, had different tubing and different components. BTW, the letter "N" indicates the bike was equipped with clincher wheels. A PK-10 would have tubular wheels.



Most of these bikes used Stronglight 104bis cranks. The 104 cranks were made from ~1980 until ~1984. "bis" indicated drilled chainrings.



Hope this helps...

verktyg

Chas.

Chombi

IIRC, I think the B9 was the Delrin cupped version of the A9 headset, which was all aluminum (except for the needle bearings and races)........

verktyg 

Chombi,

We're both wrong!

The all "composite" Stronglight headset is Model B10.

VeloBase.com - Component: Stronglight B10 (Stronglight Spidel on locknut)
VeloBase.com - Component: Stronglight B10 Bernard Hinault (Stronglight B-Hinault on locknut)

Stronglight B10 on my 1984 Gitane Tour de France.



Stronglight B10 on my Peugeot 1983 PSV-10.



On the first frame that I got with a Stronglight B10 headset, I switched it out the for a chrome plated Specialized one. The plastic looked cheap and I didn't want to have any problems riding with it. Later I got several bikes equipped with B10s.

I decided to try them out and I wasn't pleasantly surprised. I prefer the alloy A9 headsets though. If I ever a have any problem with a B10 it will be gone!

verktyg


Chas.

John E

OK, 104bis crankset it is.

That looks very much like mine, except for the color -- mine is a sort of almost-silver pearl white. Mine has Galli sidepulls, which were not necessarily original, but it does have the butted 531 main triangle, with ugly seams down the backs of the fork blades and noticeable brazing voids at the rear dropouts. The bike gets a solid A for ride quality and a C+ for craftsmanship.

Thanks for the data. I am pretty good on early 1970s Peugeots, when I worked at a dealership as a starving grad student, but not on the later ones.

Peugeotlover

Great discussion, thanks guys. Verktyg, good knowledge, man!

Chombi

Yes, I did remember equating the "B" to the Delrin cups but I did not quite remember the number "10" related to it.
Lots of B10s seem to be still surviving on out there, mostly on many early to mid-80's Peugeots, Gitanes and Treks with no problems with their cups, although I have seen a few in the past years that had cracked Delrin cups.
I say, the moment you see an ominous grey haze developing on the Delrin cups,.........it's time to retire that B10 and consider replacing it with an A9.....

verktyg 

A9, B9, B10.... What's a couple of "numbers' amongst friends?

The B10s have survived for over 30 years so that says something about their reliability! Just in case, I've been squirreling away some nice A9s.

I agree about the grey haze issue. It's indicative of deterioration of the plastic caused by breakdown of the volatile elements and other compounds resulting in loss of resiliency. Cracks can easily form in the plastic when it breaks down that much. (how's that for a $10 response?)

Exposure to ultraviolet sunlight is one of the main causes, also some chemicals and lubricant can do the same thing.

I'm not sure that the B10s were made of Delrin plastic. There are a lot of other types of plastic that look similar. The B10s seem to be harder than the Simplex Delrin derailleurs???

What I like best about the A9 and B10 headsets is that they're very tolerant of over or under tightening and they stay adjusted. The needle bearings stay smooth, even with dried up grease. Headsets are "thrust bearings" with very little rotational forces involved. Needle bearings are excellent for these applications.



I've only seen one A9/B10 with any indentations in the bearing races - a common cause of failure in ball bearing headsets.

Shimano made a lot of headsets with plastic "skirts" around the steel bearing races but they had standard ball bearings and lacked the advantage of the needle bearings used in the A9 and B10.



Ritchey sold some headsets with plastic skirts too.



The current generation of Stronglight A9 headsets use precision sealed caged ball bearings instead of needle bearings.





I put one in my 1984 Gitane Team Pro. The new A9 quality is very good, maybe better than current Campy and Shimano 1" headsets



verktyg

Chas.

verktyg 

You wanna buy a modesty skirt???

verktyg


Chas.

Chombi

As for the Stronglight Delta HS that came on the coattails of the legendary A9's.....technically, it's actually an improvement on the A9, with its O-ring seals and more modern "Aero" profile......but the new shape was admittedly a bit too "weird, and kinda penile headed", (compared with the instant classic looks of the A9's) looking for some (and heck!, its a few grams heavier than the A9's!!)...... An aesthetic misstep from Stronglight(?) which I think actually took some of the wind off the sales figures for Stronglight at a very challenging time in the French bike industry, so the Delta remains up to these days as A9's less popular younger brother.....

Shp4man

Holy crap! You guys are the ultimate French bike nerds of the world. . Don't get pissed, I love French bikes because of their "all day" ride. My favorite bike ever:

Mister Fernand

An interesting address on the story of Peugeot PY.

La saga du Peugeot PY 10 | Forum Velo Retro Course