noglider 

Very tempting. Where can I find the weight?

jeirvine 

I don't have experience direct with those, but I think I heard they had an issue with weak spoke holes. Maybe it was their 650b versions, and maybe they've made a fix. Or maybe that's why those are being blown out for $40.

oddjob2

Tom, probably right in the title 419G.

onespeedbiker

It's in the title; 419 grams

onespeedbiker

From what I have read, there were two reported spoke hole failures (by two persons); both were on rear drivers side spokes and 650b version; one was a 28 hole rim and the other a 32 hole. Tension may been an issue as Kirk Pacenti recommends a max of 100kgf. However these rims have been out over a year and these were the only complaints that have been posted, and given Pacenti reputation as one of the finest rim makers around, I'm confident the rim failures were anomalies. I bought a set of 36 hole.

3alarmer 

...since you do not seem to be in the weight weenie category, you can buy DT straights from AE Bike for about 45 or 50 cents a pop, those CR 18's on sale for in the neighborhood of 20 bucks each, you have the hubs, and if you're smart about it, you'll buy one of those Spin Doctor II stands from Performance Bikes (on sale around 50 bucks).

You don't really need a dish gauge at first, and the next tool I'd advise after the stand would be park tensiometer (also goes on sale.)


The bottom line on this is that you will never really have much appreciation of what a well constructed wheel involves unless and until you do a few.
And certainly if you want to do older bikes, the wheels are often what make nice bikes that make good projects cheaper to buy, when they are off.

In the couple of hundred project bikes I've bought and overhauled, i think there were maybe three where the wheels were properly tensioned, dished correctly, not otherwise damaged by wear (like stress cracking around the rim holes), and ready to ride without a couple of hours worth of work. It's just the way it is. You can either rant about it, or you can suck it up and deal.

noglider 

Wow, you and @onespeedbiker are so clever! I ordered a pair. I'll use light spokes to make sure I don't mess with the holes in the rims.

Barrettscv 

Yes, I'm tempted by those rims, also. If I only met the weight recommendation.

onespeedbiker

The max weight of Pacenti PL23 is 185lb; just ride more you'll make it.

Barrettscv 

I've revisiting this thread. I'll be purchasing spokes for 3 wheelsets.

Who offers the best value for spokes in the $0.40 to $0.90 range?

I need about 80 units of a 292mm length.

I'll need about 60 units of a 291mm length and 22 units of a 290mm length.

The third wheelset is yet to be determined.

tashi

I'd say for the $200/pair range, machine built wheelsets are the way to go. Although I'd bank on paying for some touch up truing.

If you want a vintage look, you'll need to build.

I think the value in handbuilt wheels comes at a higher price point: on a vintage bike I'd rather ride nice vintage hubs, DB (possibly aero) DT spokes, anodized nipples and nicer classically shaped and finished rims (Open pros, A23's, TB 14's, etc...) than the wheelsets that are available at that price point. Not only do I feel they're better wheels, but they're built exactly how I need em, by a guy nearby who knows what I need, and will take touch them up if needed for little to no cost.

If you want what you want, you'll have to go handbuilt. If dollars rule the equation, prebuilt.

Chombi

Good old thread to revisit.
The best wheelset i have and have most confident in is one I built myself with rims, spokes and hubs that i specifically chose to get exactly what I want.
Stronglight Delta hubs with cartridge bearings,
DT Aerolite oval section SS spokes,
Wolber 28H Profil 20 aero rims,
Schwalbe Milano tubular tires mounted on them presently
Not the lightest C&V wheelset I have, but they have the stiffest feel and have not required any re-truing after many miles I built them. I also have most confident on them as I know exactly how much time/care I took building them.
So yes, you can have good C&V wheelsets with your C&V bikes that will take the punishment you can give them, as long as you carefully chose what goes into the wheel build.
I have bought used C&V wheels that are close to NOS with low or no mileage on them. Half my wheelsets are such. Most of them seem work well enough and generally stay true, but ultimately, I do not have the same confidence in them as my Profil 20 wheelset tha I build myself.
BTW, worst wheelset I have is one i also built.
I had to use Fiamme Ergal rims for period appropriateness on one of my most important C&V bikes..... Uhmmm.....many here knows what comes with using such rims for a wheelset. They are rideable, but I pretty much have to re-true them after every three or four rides.... Maybe I'll have better luck with Super Champion or Nisi rims instead?

gaucho777 

I find it's best to buy by the box, usually box of 50. You get a better price per spoke, and then have extras if you ever them. I've had good luck with Wheelsmith double-butted spokes, which are 2.0/1.7/2.0, so a slightly thinner/lighter spoke than your typical 2.0/1.8/2.0 butted spoke. It's also the only spoke Peter White uses. A quality spoke at a reasonable cost. I paid $30 for a box of 50, but I see several retailers are selling 50-count boxes (no nipples) on ebay for ~$25.

rccardr 

Or, still, Dan's Comp. Sapim's still at 40 cents per spoke for DB J bends with nipples included.
Over the past year have built a dozen or so vintage-y wheelsets using the Sapim spokes and have been very happy.
Also, Pacenti's PL series now has no weight max, and at $40 per plus shipping, makes a nice shiny box section wheel.

gugie 

I get Sapim spokes cut to length from childhood_dreams over at fleabay. Good price, gets them to you fast. Don't wimp out on spoke quality. DT, Wheelsmith, or Sapim are all approximately the same quality - build quality is more important.

lord_athlon

Its hard. Rims and Spokes for a set of Normandy hubs I have is more than a set of velomine CR-18's and decent and serviceable (while good looking) sealed bearing hubs.

noglider 

I buy custom-cut spokes from a guy named Lee at lkspoke@yahoo.com. Very good prices and service.

gugie 

Can you give an example? A few decades ago it seemed that spokes weren't a big cos per wheel, seems like that's not the case now.

3alarmer 

...the last time I bought any, I shopped a little and ended up buying full boxes of DT's at AE Bike. IThat was two or three years ago. I think they ended up at about 50 cents per spoke. I like DT's because I've used them for a while and they do not surprise me (usually). I try to count my time as worth something to me in all of this.

The great majority of new wheel builders undertension their wheels, just so you know.

3alarmer 

...when I started doing this I think spokes (decent ones) were in the dime range. They now sell them in shops for a buck each and up.

noglider 

The purchase I made a few months ago:

gugie 

So if you go with 72 Sapim 14/15 DB spokes, you're at about $42 including shipping.

Childhood_dreams at eBay is about $44 including shipping.

Good to know another source, $2 cheaper to boot!

Nipples included? Mine aren't...

3alarmer 

...the useful thing about AE Bike is that if you hit a certain purchase price point, they will pay the shipping. I forget now what it is, but if you're doing a number of wheels, you get there pretty quickly. DT spokes by the box come with the nipples included.

eschlwc

sapim race spokes from danscomp!!

sun m13ii rims from niagara!!

turn your frame upside down, and start building!!

it's easier than baking a soufflé!!

i wish someone had told me this years ago!!

i will stop shouting now!!

noglider 

lkspoke is childhood dreams. One and the same.