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  1. #1
    Senior Member r0ckh0und's Avatar
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    Downtube Shifter Boss Shimano/Suntour Compatability

    This past weekend I found a pretty great Shogun 1000 that has been fixed.Apparently these came with the 600 Arabesque group and have an odd shaped braze on boss......rounded with a notch. I had fairy tale visions of building this frame back up with Suntour Cyclone 1st gen black but the boss threads are different. Is there a way to make my Suntour work or do I need to use an era specific Shimano?
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    Bianchi Goddess Bianchigirll's Avatar
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    No unfortunately. You need to try and find some of those shipmano type shifters. Some members here have modified DT cable stops to fit over the post, a search for Raleigh Wyoming my yield a thread.

    The good news that Cyclone was friction so if you can find the shipmano shifters no one is likely to notice them.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member brian3069's Avatar
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    Don't think I would experiment it on a nice frame, but it's possible to alter the bosses.

    Modification: Old style Shimano downtube shifter mounts to later style
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Vintage_Cyclist's Avatar
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    Your options are:
    1. to modify the shifter boss as indicated in the above link to rccardr's thread.
    2. Find the appropriate vintage Shimano shifters that fit the shifter boss.
    3. Install SunTour strap-on shifters and just leave the shifter bosses alone.
    4. Use a cable stop on the bosses and go with bar-end shifters or brifters.

    My inclination for your project would be to go with a cable stop and find some Suntour Barcon shifters on Ebay.

    From a post I made on this issue on another thread:

    (Note that the links to Loose Screws are old and the site is temporarily down. Reportedly it is reopening in the near future under new ownership and will probably have the stock for sale it previously had).

    If I'm not mistaken, the 84 Centurion Comp TA has the same Shimano proprietary shifter bosses as the the 85 Centurion Ironman (and other period bikes). These are rounded with a keyhole tab at the top of the boss, unlike the standard square bosses normally used. Additionally, they're threaded for M4.5 bolts instead of the normal M5 bolts.

    Attachment 372368Attachment 372369 versus


    If you're going with brifters, finding shifters isn't an issue, but you'll need to modify a pair of shifter cable stops to fit these bosses.

    This link explains how to do it The Kodiak saga continues | The Simplicity of Vintage Cycles

    M4.5 fixing bolts are hard to get, but are still available at Loose Screws. These are Dura Ace Shifter screws with a D ring cover that will need to be removed (see picture at the Loose Screws link above). Just put it into a vise with the screw end facing upwards and gently tap it with a hammer to loosen it up, so you can remove everything from the screw. The screw may, or may not have to be cut down slightly depending on the frame bosses. On my 85 Ironman I had to remove about 1/8 inch from one to make it completely tighten down the cable stop to the shifter boss on the front derailleur side.

    Use shifter cable stops that are as rounded (or barrel shaped) as possible to provide the maximum amount of internal cable stop space when you remove some of the inner material to fit the cable stops. This will make it easier to get the cable stops to sit flush against the frame tubing. The ones I used had flat sides (like the sides of a pyramid) and can't fit completely flush against the frame tubing (about 1/16 of an inch gap).

    If you decide to go with downtube shifters, Loose Screws also sells Shimano Z-401 downtube shifters that supposedly go with these weirdo shifter bosses. I haven't tried them myself.

    If you try looking for other compatible Shimano shifters, the model numbers will have the suffix FAI, which should all fit these downtube Braze-On A-Type/M4.5 bosses.

    You're other option would be to modify the bosses themselves by removing material from the bosses to jury-rig a fit for shifters that fit normal bosses. There is a thread here on this process at Modification: Old style Shimano downtube shifter mounts to later style
    Last edited by Vintage_Cyclist; 12-15-14 at 11:19 AM.

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    Senior Member r0ckh0und's Avatar
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    I'd rather not alter the bosses and I'd be happy with an Arabesque group. I have the crankset but will need to source the rest.

    Will the clamp-on shifters be compatible with these bosses?
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    Senior Member Vintage_Cyclist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by r0ckh0und View Post
    I'd rather not alter the bosses and I'd be happy with an Arabesque group. I have the crankset but will need to source the rest.

    Will the clamp-on shifters be compatible with these bosses?
    Only in that you clamp them on above the bosses and leave the bosses exposed. Not the cleanest look, but it will work.

    If you're willing to switch to Shimano, it might be a better option to just find shifters with the M4.5 fixing bolt. I would think that using these in friction mode should be no problem with SunTour Cyclone derailleurs either.

    Problem Solvers also makes a downtube shifter mount that will work with any standard downtube shifters. But again, the original bosses would be left exposed.
    Last edited by Vintage_Cyclist; 12-15-14 at 12:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by r0ckh0und View Post
    I'd rather not alter the bosses and I'd be happy with an Arabesque group. I have the crankset but will need to source the rest.

    Will the clamp-on shifters be compatible with these bosses?
    IME- the Arabesque group will not perform as nicely as a 1st style Cyclone.

    I redid my 1978 Trek 736- replaced the shifters and derailleurs with Cyclone and Sprint parts and the crankset with a Stronglight. It went from a bike that I kept around just because it was a 1978 Trek to a bike that I like riding.






    Just looking at The Thin Man's site and the fix to alter the cable stop- I'd definitely go for that.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member r0ckh0und's Avatar
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    Well.......I'm kind of thinking the Arabesque levers could fly with the Cyclone group. There's a 600 mini group sitting on ebay right now but id like to be sure the levers will work. Will any 600 Arab levers work as long as they're not the clamp-on style.....did the braze-on levers change at any point?
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by r0ckh0und View Post
    Well.......I'm kind of thinking the Arabesque levers could fly with the Cyclone group. There's a 600 mini group sitting on ebay right now but id like to be sure the levers will work. Will any 600 Arab levers work as long as they're not the clamp-on style.....did the braze-on levers change at any point?
    I can check tonight- I have a set of band clamp Arabesque levers and a "B boss" Shimano band clamp.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Vintage_Cyclist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by r0ckh0und View Post
    Well.......I'm kind of thinking the Arabesque levers could fly with the Cyclone group. There's a 600 mini group sitting on ebay right now but id like to be sure the levers will work. Will any 600 Arab levers work as long as they're not the clamp-on style.....did the braze-on levers change at any point?
    Those proprietary braze-ons were used mainly in 1983-1985, in an attempt by Shimano to impose its own proprietary design to support only their products. There was no other valid reason to deviate from the industry standard italian style bosses.

    I don't believe there are Arabesque shifters with the M4.5 bolt and keyhole shifter flange. They might have been an earlier design. There are Shimano 600 and Dura Ace shifters (and some lesser models) that have this design.

    Shimano 600EX M4.5 size shifters. Note the keyhole shaped flange (one is broken).


    Shimano 600EX M5 size shifters. Note the normal flange and the "M5" stamped on the fixing bolt.

  11. #11
    Senior Member r0ckh0und's Avatar
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    This is where I'm confused. From what I've read, the Shogun 1000 was fitted with the arabesque. My seller confirmed that as well.
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  12. #12
    Senior Member Vintage_Cyclist's Avatar
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    A little Googling shows there was a Shimano 600 EX Arabesque group that had this proprietary keyhole braze-on style.

    A diagram of the shifters can be seen at http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/...9_page_52.html Note: the exploded diagram shows 2 varieties, 1 clamp-on and the other the "A" type braze-on. The latter is what you're looking for if you're set on getting this model.

    There was definitely also a Shimano 105 Golden Arrow group with the keyhole design as well.
    Last edited by Vintage_Cyclist; 12-15-14 at 05:55 PM.

  13. #13
    Senior Member r0ckh0und's Avatar
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    Well I'll be a monkey's uncle. ....I have a Golden Arrow mini group collecting dust with 2 sets of shifters....the center mount and the side mounts. The side mounts didn't match up. I pulled a lever off the center mount and installed it the same way it came off but it was a little loose...so I moved the small washer on the in board side of the lever to the outboard side and it works like a champ.
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