Headtube lug separation: options?
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Headtube lug separation: options?
Headtube lugs look like they're separating from the top tube and down tube. No signs of crash or bent fork so not sure how it happened. Have a feeling it might be an expensive repair...
What are my options?
What are my options?
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Got any pics?
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Easy as pie for a competent welder to fix. Two options...
First, the gap is (most likely) original, right from day one. The lug is not really pulling apart from the tube. I could be wrong as I am basing my guess on pictures, rather than personal inspection.
Fix one includes simply brazing or silver soldering the lug/tube junction. Minimal heat, to get the parent metal warm enough to accept melted brass or silver solder. Either the brass or silver solder will be drawn into the gap, completing the repair, except for paint work.
Option two is to use less heat, flux and ordinary solder. This will not impart much more strength but it will fill the gap. Paint touch up will be required, but not much.
Again, this sort of repair is good only if the joint is original and not moving.
First, the gap is (most likely) original, right from day one. The lug is not really pulling apart from the tube. I could be wrong as I am basing my guess on pictures, rather than personal inspection.
Fix one includes simply brazing or silver soldering the lug/tube junction. Minimal heat, to get the parent metal warm enough to accept melted brass or silver solder. Either the brass or silver solder will be drawn into the gap, completing the repair, except for paint work.
Option two is to use less heat, flux and ordinary solder. This will not impart much more strength but it will fill the gap. Paint touch up will be required, but not much.
Again, this sort of repair is good only if the joint is original and not moving.
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Easy as pie for a competent welder to fix. Two options...
First, the gap is (most likely) original, right from day one. The lug is not really pulling apart from the tube. I could be wrong as I am basing my guess on pictures, rather than personal inspection.
Fix one includes simply brazing or silver soldering the lug/tube junction. Minimal heat, to get the parent metal warm enough to accept melted brass or silver solder. Either the brass or silver solder will be drawn into the gap, completing the repair, except for paint work.
Option two is to use less heat, flux and ordinary solder. This will not impart much more strength but it will fill the gap. Paint touch up will be required, but not much.
Again, this sort of repair is good only if the joint is original and not moving.
First, the gap is (most likely) original, right from day one. The lug is not really pulling apart from the tube. I could be wrong as I am basing my guess on pictures, rather than personal inspection.
Fix one includes simply brazing or silver soldering the lug/tube junction. Minimal heat, to get the parent metal warm enough to accept melted brass or silver solder. Either the brass or silver solder will be drawn into the gap, completing the repair, except for paint work.
Option two is to use less heat, flux and ordinary solder. This will not impart much more strength but it will fill the gap. Paint touch up will be required, but not much.
Again, this sort of repair is good only if the joint is original and not moving.
Thank you for the sound advice. The joint is not moving but the top lug looks to have moved quite a bit. The yellow substance looks like brazing material and it's where the lug should've been. The bike is nice enough that I am strongly leaning for a repair if it's reasonable.
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The joint has to cleaned of all rust and debris. Either sandblasting or wire wheel. On repairs such as that I use oven cleaner, rinse and silver braze.
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Can you use silver solder to fill such a wide gap?
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The images are not the sharpest overall but I see poor initial brazing and trauma as miamijim mentioned.
I don't agree that the gap of the one lug is an easy silver fix. Both silver and brass need a clean surface to attach to.
Cleaning that out might be done by a product like pickle-x pro... But a senance would need to be held to ask Fred Parr.
Now for a practical matter.... Ride or retire? I have become conservative. Retire. A real fix is not economical, you might do it as a learning experience. I would cut the head tube in half, watch the frame spring, then torch off the head lugs and braze in a new head tube, and maybe a new top tube or down tube depending on what the frame tells you after you bisect the head tube.
I don't agree that the gap of the one lug is an easy silver fix. Both silver and brass need a clean surface to attach to.
Cleaning that out might be done by a product like pickle-x pro... But a senance would need to be held to ask Fred Parr.
Now for a practical matter.... Ride or retire? I have become conservative. Retire. A real fix is not economical, you might do it as a learning experience. I would cut the head tube in half, watch the frame spring, then torch off the head lugs and braze in a new head tube, and maybe a new top tube or down tube depending on what the frame tells you after you bisect the head tube.
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I'd check the inside of the head tube to see if the crack is confined to the joint or extends through the head tube. If the head tube itself is cracked, you're looking at a much more extensive repair.
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What kind of frame is this? Some are worth fixing, and others are not.
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#13
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Those lug points look really short. In fact, they look too short to provide the necessary surface area for a good joint. Are you sure it's a Waterford frame?
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#16
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Does the fork have round blades? From the limited view of the crown, it looks like a track fork (round blades) instead of a road fork with oval blades. If it has round blades and the bike is a road bike, the fork is likely a replacement.
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I can confime that it has been in a front end collision. Downtube has rippling (toptube seems fine), but this probably caused the lugs to give out and separate. I'm wondering if this would be a worthwhile project to pursue or just trash the frame.
#18
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Now for a practical matter.... Ride or retire? I have become conservative. Retire. A real fix is not economical, you might do it as a learning experience. I would cut the head tube in half, watch the frame spring, then torch off the head lugs and braze in a new head tube, and maybe a new top tube or down tube depending on what the frame tells you after you bisect the head tube.
#19
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poor penetration .
sand blast the whole thing since it has to be repainted any how , and have some one re braze the lug, then re ream, out the head tube .
it will distort some ..
top . (out of focus) already looks like scorched paint. that one was Bad Too?
sand blast the whole thing since it has to be repainted any how , and have some one re braze the lug, then re ream, out the head tube .
it will distort some ..
top . (out of focus) already looks like scorched paint. that one was Bad Too?
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That information upfront would have got you to the same result quite a bit faster.