Dealing With Tragedy: The Passing Of The Quill Stem
02-03-15, 05:53 AM
#26
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My Cinelli XA had to be put down with the help of some caustic soda a few years ago. I replaced it with a 1A, which I know is supposed to be a classic but I prefer the neatness of the XA's underside bolt. So when I finally came round to the realisation that I prefer compact bars to classic Cinelli Campione Del Mondo, my only choice was to pay a hefty import surcharge for some Nitto M106 bars, which I've paired with the Nitto Dynamic stem. ("Dynamic 10" replacing a 110m Cinelli, for reasons already explained up-thread.) The finish on the Nitto stems really is classy, including the etched logo, and although the shape is essentially the same as the XA stem, it feels just that little bit chunkier, which in turn seems to make it more stiff. Possibly a trick of the mind, but I'm happy with that. 
W.r.t. modern style, some of the nicer ones I've seen have been custom jobs to match custom frames. That's one way to go, if a little expensive! Check out Field Cycles for some inspiration (and general bike p0rn...) Gallery : Field Cycles
W.r.t. modern style, some of the nicer ones I've seen have been custom jobs to match custom frames. That's one way to go, if a little expensive! Check out Field Cycles for some inspiration (and general bike p0rn...) Gallery : Field Cycles
02-03-15, 07:35 AM
#27
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Many nice stems in this thread. My favorite is the Dura Ace stem:
02-03-15, 08:25 AM
#28
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Well, bearing in mind that the title of the thread implies the tragic passing of a quill stem...
Fortunately I was not riding the bike when it happened. Took it out of the shed one day and the handlebar was loose. Hmmm!
Fortunately I was not riding the bike when it happened. Took it out of the shed one day and the handlebar was loose. Hmmm!
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02-03-15, 11:26 AM
#29
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I think it came off of a modern, low-end Masi, at least that is the product line that the small shop had where I acquired the stem in a consignment/trade deal.
It's an ugly stem though, perhaps 9cm at the longest, with very blocky clamp structure attached to a thick extension with quite-bulky heli-arc weld bead.
Although I am mostly partial to Nitto's better stems for their sleek solidity, I have to also give this thread's first nod to the ubiquitous SR Custom, which, though heavy and perhaps only available in a few even-numbered lengths, was spec'd on a zillion, mostly Japanese bikes in the 1980's for it's economical good function. Well worth polishing imo.
02-03-15, 11:27 AM
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Let's talk about quill stems that fully open, either a hinged clamp or a removable clamp. Criteria: that don't look awful.
I think 3T kept trying to make graceful quill stems that had open faces. The Motus, Evol, Mutant, and maybe others. Cinelli made the Oyster; also the open face Frog, but it fails the "awfulness" criteria IMHO. Mavic made the 370 stem with a notched clamp that lifted off, I've never seen one in the flesh. What are some others? These were all pretty unsuccessful. Any thoughts on why? Maybe there just isn't a need.
I think 3T kept trying to make graceful quill stems that had open faces. The Motus, Evol, Mutant, and maybe others. Cinelli made the Oyster; also the open face Frog, but it fails the "awfulness" criteria IMHO. Mavic made the 370 stem with a notched clamp that lifted off, I've never seen one in the flesh. What are some others? These were all pretty unsuccessful. Any thoughts on why? Maybe there just isn't a need.
Quill stems went through all the evolution, removable face plates, 1-1/8", 1-1/4", alloy binders and wedges, they were incredibly light too, but ultimately the threadless system is better. We're seeing threads disappear on other areas of the bikes too. BB's gone. Axles, reduced... Now it is just the oversized QR axle that has threading on the end and the hubs have no threading left at all.
Quill stems are beautiful but would not fit on anything made today. Thankfully we are seeing a resurgence of classic components following the resurgence of classic frames and a few have been posted. I like the new thread less stems that have an extension to do away with the spacers. Those look pretty good IMHO. but I also think a modern bike with threadless and no spacers on top still looks good.
store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/stems/threadless-stems/vo-tall-stack-threadless-stem-31-8-rise.html
there are also fancy steel type of stems like this I believe.
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02-03-15, 11:35 AM
#31
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I like quill stems for two reasons:
the look, even the best of the threadless do not have the simple elegance of a quill stem
the functionality. I can as needed easily adjust and tune my fit in terms of height. Theadless are much more limited in range once they are cut.
the look, even the best of the threadless do not have the simple elegance of a quill stem
the functionality. I can as needed easily adjust and tune my fit in terms of height. Theadless are much more limited in range once they are cut.
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02-03-15, 11:47 AM
#32
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Yeah they sucked too. They were ugly and prone to failure. There are still lots of cheeps stems out there for quill with removable plates but they are ugly. The threadless stem was a great innovation. I can't stress enough how superior this is in terms of weight savings and ease of maintenance. Think of the bike fitters changing stems out on floor bike etc... and what a PITA it would be if they were quill stems with a single pinch bolt. Scratched bars and re-taping all the time. It sucked.
Quill stems went through all the evolution, removable face plates, 1-1/8", 1-1/4", alloy binders and wedges, they were incredibly light too, but ultimately the threadless system is better. We're seeing threads disappear on other areas of the bikes too. BB's gone. Axles, reduced... Now it is just the oversized QR axle that has threading on the end and the hubs have no threading left at all.
Quill stems are beautiful but would not fit on anything made today. Thankfully we are seeing a resurgence of classic components following the resurgence of classic frames and a few have been posted. I like the new thread less stems that have an extension to do away with the spacers. Those look pretty good IMHO. but I also think a modern bike with threadless and no spacers on top still looks good.
store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/stems/threadless-stems/vo-tall-stack-threadless-stem-31-8-rise.html
there are also fancy steel type of stems like this I believe.
Quill stems went through all the evolution, removable face plates, 1-1/8", 1-1/4", alloy binders and wedges, they were incredibly light too, but ultimately the threadless system is better. We're seeing threads disappear on other areas of the bikes too. BB's gone. Axles, reduced... Now it is just the oversized QR axle that has threading on the end and the hubs have no threading left at all.
Quill stems are beautiful but would not fit on anything made today. Thankfully we are seeing a resurgence of classic components following the resurgence of classic frames and a few have been posted. I like the new thread less stems that have an extension to do away with the spacers. Those look pretty good IMHO. but I also think a modern bike with threadless and no spacers on top still looks good.
store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/stems/threadless-stems/vo-tall-stack-threadless-stem-31-8-rise.html
there are also fancy steel type of stems like this I believe.
As far as outfitting steel-frame bikes, the oversized and threadless stems will always stand out as bulky unless the frame tubing is oversized, which is pretty much the opposite of what C&V is about, sorry to say.
I found the picture of the fractured TTT stem clamp very disturbing. Usually it is the sleeker, lighter stems that crack in the clamp area, forged stems such as Cinelli and Modolo.
One never knows what stem clamp might fail in tension like that, just as one never knows what hub might suddenly be found with a chunk of the flange torn off (reason enough not to use radial lacing imo). I can't recall ever seeing a failed Japanese production stem, and there are a lot of them out there.
02-03-15, 12:03 PM
#33
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Yeah, those quill stems sure can get stuck inside steerers like no other.
Likes For nlerner:
02-03-15, 12:04 PM
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I have been a fan of the 1A for a number of years. Have a few collected in the parts bin and prefer using them. Then I bought a Pinarello with this:
[IMG]
P1020201 by superissimo_83, on Flickr[/IMG]
Other than the distracting gasket, the shape is quite attractive!
[IMG]
P1020201 by superissimo_83, on Flickr[/IMG]Other than the distracting gasket, the shape is quite attractive!
02-03-15, 12:06 PM
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Oh I forgot about the Le Champion with the 3TTT: I liked it too but it rocked in the steerer tube.
[IMG]
LC_Stem by superissimo_83, on Flickr[/IMG]
[IMG]
LC_Stem by superissimo_83, on Flickr[/IMG]
02-03-15, 12:27 PM
#36
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I think the Cinelli 1A epitomizes the classic quill stem:
But on the other hand, a custom hand-built threadless stem can be a thing of beauty as well, such as this fillet-brazed stem with integrated hanger from Brian Chapman:
But on the other hand, a custom hand-built threadless stem can be a thing of beauty as well, such as this fillet-brazed stem with integrated hanger from Brian Chapman:
02-03-15, 12:42 PM
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I think clamp-on threadless stems would be prettier if they didn't have bolts protruding everywhere. It is like a dirtbike or mountainbike aesthetic, and is jarring on a sleek road bike. I've seen a few models with the steerer pinch bolts forward of the steerer, embedded in the body of the stem. The other thing I don't like is how fat the threadless stems are. I've not seen any that have a slim profile.
02-03-15, 12:55 PM
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My grail stem, if ever made would be a .833 d. Cinetica adjust 90-100 mm.
I've found plenty of the 1" d. stems, but I have a beautiful fork from Santana but why oh why did they use a .833 steerer?!!!
.jpg)
I've found plenty of the 1" d. stems, but I have a beautiful fork from Santana but why oh why did they use a .833 steerer?!!!
Last edited by crank_addict; 02-03-15 at 01:23 PM.
02-03-15, 02:20 PM
#40
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There are actually two ways to measure a stem.
First, there is the drafting-board, center-to-center-on-center method that puts a number on the actual center (bars) to center (handlebar) along the centerline of the extension.
This is mostly used today, since the demise of race-quality quill stems, and was almost universally used on Japanese stems (but for a few of the higher-end ones).
The second method better suits the needs of field measurement, perfect for determining what stem length is on the bike without having to withdraw the quill from the steerer as is usually needed to find a number. This method is done by laying a ruler or tape measure across the top of the stem's extension and measuring from the center of the expander bolt to the top-center of the clamp (the tangency point where the ruler touches the OD of the stem clamp.
This method applies to racing stems like Cinelli, ITM, TTT and to certain top-level Japanese quill stems, such as Shimano's Nitto-made "aero" stems (which accept 26.4mm bars BTW).
The difference in measurement methods means that a typical racing quill stem is 4mm or so shorter than a same-sized (designated size) Japanese stem.
This difference arises from the vertical distance from the stem extension's centerline up to the top of the clamp and quill bolt, up along the canted quill axis, which makes for a larger measured dimension when laying a ruler across the top (field measurement method).
I agree that it can be a bit of a dilemma coming up with the right stem and bars for a particular quill-stemmed build. Being as there are potentially four clamp diameters and three quill diameters, on top of having to find the right extension length, I have to keep a stockpile of parts on hand.
I like these stems, which I've found only in 60, 90 and 110mm extensions and with reduced 21.1mm (.833") quill diameter.
First, there is the drafting-board, center-to-center-on-center method that puts a number on the actual center (bars) to center (handlebar) along the centerline of the extension.
This is mostly used today, since the demise of race-quality quill stems, and was almost universally used on Japanese stems (but for a few of the higher-end ones).
The second method better suits the needs of field measurement, perfect for determining what stem length is on the bike without having to withdraw the quill from the steerer as is usually needed to find a number. This method is done by laying a ruler or tape measure across the top of the stem's extension and measuring from the center of the expander bolt to the top-center of the clamp (the tangency point where the ruler touches the OD of the stem clamp.
This method applies to racing stems like Cinelli, ITM, TTT and to certain top-level Japanese quill stems, such as Shimano's Nitto-made "aero" stems (which accept 26.4mm bars BTW).
The difference in measurement methods means that a typical racing quill stem is 4mm or so shorter than a same-sized (designated size) Japanese stem.
This difference arises from the vertical distance from the stem extension's centerline up to the top of the clamp and quill bolt, up along the canted quill axis, which makes for a larger measured dimension when laying a ruler across the top (field measurement method).
I agree that it can be a bit of a dilemma coming up with the right stem and bars for a particular quill-stemmed build. Being as there are potentially four clamp diameters and three quill diameters, on top of having to find the right extension length, I have to keep a stockpile of parts on hand.
I like these stems, which I've found only in 60, 90 and 110mm extensions and with reduced 21.1mm (.833") quill diameter.
120 / cos(-17) = 125.4 mm.
TTTs and Cinellis measure roughly 116 for that 120 stated measurement. That near cm is the difference between Nitto Pearls and TTT/Cinelli.
I cannot vouch for any other Nitto stems or any other Japanese manufacturers. I bought a Pearl 13 for my custom fixie and ended up replacing it with a Pearl 12 because it was too long. (Too long a stem is a very rare event for this ape, so I investigated very carefully to see how that could have happened, esp on a big $$ custom ti bike designed and built to be perfect with a 130 stem.) My Cinelli 130 worked perfectly (and lays over the Nitto 12 exactly). I rode the 12 for a year plus. I have taken it off and replaced it with a Cinelli 135 and slightly shorter reach bars (better width). The Pearl 13 is on my "new" gravel grinder which wants the longest stem I have. And I have a beautiful Pearl 12 (130) sitting in a box, awaiting its next assignment. (Probably top replace the 1A on the fixie pista setup when it is tape time again.)
Ben
02-03-15, 02:57 PM
#41
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Per 79pmooney's comments; I just measured my Holdsworth's Nitto stem, the one I thought was a Pearl stem. It's unmarked, but measures about 107mm c-c on centers.
It doesn't say Pearl on it though. It is exactly as a Nitto Technomic deluxe, but with standard-length quill.
I also find a Nitto stem with script embossing that reads "Pearl 10". I measured it again and it is 105mm C-C horizontally, (on center with the extension centerline).
So this seems to jibe with 79pmooney's observation of a completely unique measuring standard as pertains only to Nitto Pearl stems.
This has me wondering though, is "Pearl 10" perhaps just a model name? ...None of my other Nitto stems (including different model Technomics and those branded for Specialized) have any extension length designation on them!
So again, here I have a 105mm C-C "Pearl 10" stem that would measure 110mm using the "top-side field-measurement" method/standard (as used by TTT, Cinelli, Shimano AX and other racing-quality quill stems).
What perhaps are the Nitto folks smoking?
Make sense of this, anyone?
It doesn't say Pearl on it though. It is exactly as a Nitto Technomic deluxe, but with standard-length quill.
I also find a Nitto stem with script embossing that reads "Pearl 10". I measured it again and it is 105mm C-C horizontally, (on center with the extension centerline).
So this seems to jibe with 79pmooney's observation of a completely unique measuring standard as pertains only to Nitto Pearl stems.
This has me wondering though, is "Pearl 10" perhaps just a model name? ...None of my other Nitto stems (including different model Technomics and those branded for Specialized) have any extension length designation on them!
So again, here I have a 105mm C-C "Pearl 10" stem that would measure 110mm using the "top-side field-measurement" method/standard (as used by TTT, Cinelli, Shimano AX and other racing-quality quill stems).
What perhaps are the Nitto folks smoking?
Make sense of this, anyone?
02-03-15, 04:29 PM
#42
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Let's talk about quill stems that fully open, either a hinged clamp or a removable clamp. Criteria: that don't look awful.
I think 3T kept trying to make graceful quill stems that had open faces. The Motus, Evol, Mutant, and maybe others. Cinelli made the Oyster; also the open face Frog, but it fails the "awfulness" criteria IMHO. Mavic made the 370 stem with a notched clamp that lifted off, I've never seen one in the flesh. What are some others? These were all pretty unsuccessful. Any thoughts on why? Maybe there just isn't a need.
I think 3T kept trying to make graceful quill stems that had open faces. The Motus, Evol, Mutant, and maybe others. Cinelli made the Oyster; also the open face Frog, but it fails the "awfulness" criteria IMHO. Mavic made the 370 stem with a notched clamp that lifted off, I've never seen one in the flesh. What are some others? These were all pretty unsuccessful. Any thoughts on why? Maybe there just isn't a need.
02-03-15, 04:54 PM
#43
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jyl,
A very eloquent opening to this thread.
I am a fan of the inexpensive 2-bolt quill stems from Sunlite and the like. They're not ugly (a +), a bit heavy (a -), but oh so nice hen it comes to changing handlebars.
A very eloquent opening to this thread.
I am a fan of the inexpensive 2-bolt quill stems from Sunlite and the like. They're not ugly (a +), a bit heavy (a -), but oh so nice hen it comes to changing handlebars.
02-03-15, 05:15 PM
#45
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OK, it might not be too practical, but I like the looks of this:
(except for the bulky, horrible-looking cork handlebar tape)
(except for the bulky, horrible-looking cork handlebar tape)
02-03-15, 05:36 PM
#46
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The modified Pearl that FarHorizon shows is a thing of beauty!
I'm fortunate to have a Pearl 9 (measures close to 10cm along the top), and 1cm shorter stem engraved with "Specialized" that I'm pretty sure is a Nitto Pearl made for them, judging by the identical pearl-like finish.
I like the slightly taller ENE Gran Compe that VO sells, too. Wish the angle was a few degrees different so that it was actually horizontal with my 74 deg HT.
I'm fortunate to have a Pearl 9 (measures close to 10cm along the top), and 1cm shorter stem engraved with "Specialized" that I'm pretty sure is a Nitto Pearl made for them, judging by the identical pearl-like finish.
I like the slightly taller ENE Gran Compe that VO sells, too. Wish the angle was a few degrees different so that it was actually horizontal with my 74 deg HT.
02-03-15, 06:43 PM
#47
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"Everybody" loves the Cinelli 1R stem..........but I haven't seen one posted here yet!
02-03-15, 07:16 PM
#49
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Lots of lovely stems posted. I consider the aesthetic superiority of the quill stem to be clear, even if that custom fillet brazed threadless stem is pretty too. But let's take on a challenge.
Terrorists are forcing you to install a threadless fork and threadless and open face stem on your most beloved c&v bike.
They are implacable. But not monsters. They permit you to search the world for any threadless stem ever made.
What do you do?
Terrorists are forcing you to install a threadless fork and threadless and open face stem on your most beloved c&v bike.
They are implacable. But not monsters. They permit you to search the world for any threadless stem ever made.
What do you do?
02-03-15, 08:27 PM
#50
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The rest of that amazing Nitto Pearl
And some its story here; https://www.theillyorker.com/2011/07/...-engraved.html
And some its story here; https://www.theillyorker.com/2011/07/...-engraved.html
Last edited by m_sasso; 02-03-15 at 10:47 PM. Reason: Spelling
