timvanderet

Hi All!

I found this site earlier in the week and was excited to see a resource with so much great information. I have a 1987 Schwinn Voyageur that my dad purchased new from a local bike shop. Pictures here. When I moved out, he gave the bike to me and I absolutely love it. I recently started riding the bike to work every day through the hills of San Francisco, and frankly it needs some work. I toyed with buying a new bike, but this one holds such sentimental value that I want to restore it. I don't have a ton of experience working on bikes, but I am a mechanical engineer and have done a lot of work on cars. I'm willing to put in the time, research, and effort to do most of the work myself.

Most important to me is functionality. Right now changing gears is very difficult and finicky, the chain skips, etc. Second most important to me is improving the bike cosmetically. I would really like to take it apart, polish all of the metal, restore the finish on the frame etc. It's not a hard requirement that I keep the parts original, but I do find it cool to be riding the same components that my dad did. I don't mind spending some money to get this thing riding really well.

Before I dive in to the project I was hoping to get a couple questions answered:

1) From what I've read the Wolber Super Champion Rims are worth keeping, but as you can see from the photos, the wheels need work. I have a broken spoke in the front wheel, and cosmetically the metal looks terrible. In my head I am envisioning replacing the bearings in the hubs, polishing the rims and hopefully the hubs. From what I've read, it sounds like taking the spokes out all at once is a bad idea. When restoring wheels, do people typically work between the spokes to clean and polish? Should I rethink this approach and just get new wheels?

2) The bike shifts really poorly. What is the right approach here? Do I simply replace cables and clean the derailleur? Is a full derailleur overhaul an ok idea if all I'm doing in cleaning and re-greasing? Should I simply buy new components?

3) Anything else I should be aware of? I plan on cleaning and replacing the bearings in both the bottom bracket and the headset. I will for sure end up replacing the saddle and the pedals. I think I need new brake pads and am debating getting a different style handlebars.


Sorry for the wall of text. I did my best to do some research upfront. I'm excited to get started on this work, but want to make sure I don't do any damage in my eagerness.

Thanks for any help!

-Tim

CliffordK

Have fun with the bike. It looks like an interesting setup.

I usually just work around the spokes for cleaning, but usually don't get a spit-shine polish either. You've got some pitting which may be difficult to work out with just ordinary rubbing.

There is no problem with de-lacing a wheel. However it is a major pain to put it back together. I wouldn't do that unless you have an upgrade planned such as stainless double-butted spokes, or perhaps a different hub or rim. If you haven't done it before... maybe 4+ hours to put your first wheel back together after taking it apart. But it is excellent practice.

That spoke looks cut. Or, did it break and someone cut it shorter? It is easy enough to replace, and then should give you some practice with truing the wheel before you decide if you wish to tear the wheel apart.

Get your valve stems straight. I usually let the air out, and squeeze the bead as I roll the rim around in a circle until the valve is straight.

What are your shifting woes?

Oil and grease never hurts. With "friction shifters", it takes some practice to find the gears. Personally I thought my bike shifted smoother the more gears I put on (now running 9spd on my old Colnago with friction shifters).

bikemig 

After getting the bike set up right, you'll want to work on bike fit as well (the saddle should be level and you'll want to check the saddle height as well).

You want to replace all the ball bearings (BB, hubs, and HS). Also you'll want to grease the seatpost and stem.

There are lots of reasons why you may be having shifter issues but I'd start with all new cables and housing. You may well need to buy a new freewheel and chain as well. Without more info as to your shifting problems, it is hard to be more specific but there could well be too much wear on the chain and freewheel.

Also you will need new brake cables and housing as well as pads.

The wheel can probably be fixed with a new spoke. If you're not familiar with truing wheels, you may want a shop to do this and re-tension the wheels. Spokes tend to lose tension over time and that is a problem.

Great bike. Bottom line when fixing up an old bike is that all the consumables need replacing.

timvanderet

Thanks for the replies.

You're right. It does look cut. I left my bike in a sketchy area of the city and didn't notice the spoke until the next morning. Perhaps someone cut it.


I will put some more thought in to the wheels. Perhaps I will de-lace them to get a great polish on the rims and hubs and have a shop build them up with new spokes.


Regarding shifting: It takes the bike a long time for the bike to actually change gears after I move the shifter, Sometimes when shifting in lower gears the chain will come off the rear gears and get lodged between the frame. Also, when going up hills if I stand up and apply a lot of torque the chain will actually skip, meaning it will feel like everything was disengaged for a moment (like a car went in to neutral momentarily). This is incredibly dangerous and has caused me to fall a few times.

I'm happy to replace anything that needs it. I'd rather spend some money and be happy with the bike. I was planning on buying a new chain as well.

timvanderet

Also, I'm pretty sure the shifter is indexed if that matters

BluesDaddy

Sounds like a new freewheel and chain are in order. Besides replacing the other things that wear out like tires, cables and brake shoes, the saddle and tape are reasonable upgrades. Unless you know components really well, you could easily downgrade the bike by buying new. It is already set up with quality, long-lasting components.

cb400bill

With a little bit of work, this bike should clean up just fine. I do hope you are a tall person as it is a fairly big frame. You will want to level that saddle, too.

tarwheel 

Definitely worth fixing up if it fits you, particularly with its sentimental value. In the long run, learning how to work on it would be ideal since you have mechanical skills. However, you might want to just get it serviced at a local bike shop so you can ride it now.

timvanderet

Thanks everybody. Really appreciate all of the insight. I am 6'5 so the bike definitely isn't too big. I'll make sure to post some pictures when I'm done.

John E

It is definitely worth repairing if you do most of the work yourself. If you do not like reaching for the downtube shifters, consider barcons.

timvanderet

I didn't realize this was an option. What equipment would I use for the shifters? I'll be able to run the cable down to the derailleurs ok? Is it possible to move the brake levers to a more upright position as well? I basically never ride in a position where my hands are on the brake levers.

SkyDog75

You'd need the bar end shifters themselves, obviously. And you'd need cable stops on the downtube like these Shimano SM-CS50 cable stops. Then run cable housing from the shifter to the cable stops and run new (longer) cables from the shifters to the derailleurs. If you do a Google image search for "bar end shifters", you'll see tons of examples.

Well, yes, you could, but if the levers are positioned so far forward that riding with your hands "on the hoods" isn't comfortable, maybe a shorter stem would be a better way to get them into reach. That way, you can reach them up top and you could still reach the levers if you're ever riding with your hands down in the bends of the handlebar, too.

As was mentioned above, this is a bike for a tall guy. If you're not as tall as your dad, difficulty reaching the brakes might be a sign that the frame's too big for you.

timvanderet

Sorry for not being clear. I often ride with my hands on the bare metal part of the handlebars directly adjacent to where they connect to the stem. Perhaps this is just a poor riding habit that I need to get out of

I am 6'5 so I can't imagine the bike is too big for me. My dad is 6'3, but its certainly not a guarantee that he was fitted properly when he bought it.

SkyDog75

Ahhh... Yeah, that's something you'd probably want to change, for a few different reasons. For one, it would really suck if you needed to stop in an emergency and then had to fumble for the brakes. Staying outboard on the bars gives you better steering control, too.

In that case, it's probably not too big, but you've got some work to do to dial in the fit. If your dad was two inches shorter than you and you've got the saddle set as low as it'll go, and if you're often riding with your hands at the stem, I've got a feeling you might be riding pretty upright with the saddle too low. There are a TON of different fit guides and videos out there, many of them with contradictory opinions, but this YouTube vid from Performance Bicycle and this one from Art's Cyclery give some pretty conventional methods to get your fit in the ballpark and you can fine tune from there.

CliffordK

One of the problems with old bikes is that it is easy to put quite a bit of money into them, especially if paying "shop rates".
Assuming you have a freewheel on the rear, you will probably need to remove the freewheel (special tool) before removing the spokes.
However, talk to your shop before doing the polishing work. It will probably cost you $50 to $100 for each wheel to get the wheels built plus the cost of the new spokes if you do it.

I'm wondering if your father did some upgrades to the bike over time such as the indexed shifting.

Is it only the rear that is a problem, or both the front and rear shifting?

Dropping the chain on either end is usually a derailleur adjustment problem (stops).
Skipping may also be an adjustment problem. Does your chain rattle when in gear? Or it could be a worn chain or freewheel/cassette.

I'm a bit late to the indexed shifting, and still diagnosing problems on my bike that I never had with friction shifting. So far I've come up with several different components of rear shifting.

• Obviously you need good derailleur adjustment.
• The Upper Jockey Wheel has a little built in float with the bushings. This actually helped with friction shifting and getting the derailleur into the right gear. However, with indexed shifting, this float may be problematic as it can reduce the shifting force. So, tighter jockey wheels might help.
• Newer derailleurs may have more internal spring tension to improve up-shifting.
• Old clusters had square teeth. New ones have teeth designed to facilitate shifting. Presumably this will help a bit.
• The "B-Screw" should be adjusted as tight as possible without allowing the derailleur to rub the larger sprockets. Having the derailleur closer to the sprockets means less sideways flex in the chain and better shifting.
• A worn chain may also have extra flex. Also don't use a chain designed for more speeds than you have.

Anyway, you might talk to your father about some of the history of the bike, and upgrades that were previously done.

Obviously oil and grease everything up.

Work on the derailleur adjustment first. But, it is possible a new rear derailleur would help with the shifting, or just upgrading bits like new Jockey Wheels.

Are your late shifts only with up-shifting (going from big rear sprockets to smaller ones, and higher gears) or do they occur with both up-shifts and down-shifts (to larger sprockets and easier gears)?

CliffordK

As far as braking, it depends on where you are. One can learn to be pretty quick at reaching the brakes from the tops of the bars to the drops and braking.

Older bikes used to have an auxilliary brake lever that could be reached from the top of the bars, but they got a lot of bad rap from the racing community.

You can buy an auxiliary (interrupter) brake lever, but I believe it requires aero brake wire routing which you don't have.



If you're new to the road bike, I'd encourage you to give it a good shake-down as is. Try out the downtube shifters before buying bar end shifters or "brifters". Try the current brakes before moving to aero and interrupter brakes.

I do think the new brake levers are easier to use "from the hoods" than the older levers.

timvanderet

I've been doing a bit of googling and tallying up costs in an excel sheet and I totally see what you mean. San Francisco has a great place called The Bike Kitchen that has stands, tools, and volunteer mechanics to help you. I plan to all activities (other than truing) there, so luckily i won't have to splurge for any tools.


Upon further research, it seems as though it is in fact a friction shifter I previously misunderstood the difference

I only notice issues in the rear, yes.

I'm not sure if there is any rattling coming from the chain. The front wheels have these tabs of metal that clip in to posts on the frame, and these rattle constantly. It's hard to hear any other bike noises over this.

This is a good question. I've been avoiding riding the bike since the spoke broke as I didn't want to do any damage, so my memory is a bit hazy. The chain only becomes dislodged when downshifting, but the late shifting seems to be a bit more unpredictable. I tend to have more issues with downshifting though.

Thank you for all of the tips regarding the derailleur.

timvanderet

I've been reading around on brake lever and bar positioning. There is an incredibly relevant thread that is also trending right now.

Thanks for the videos. That is very helpful. I've ridden this bike a lot (I even did a 75k race with it :x) and have never bothered to mess around with the fit. I've gotten the point that it is incredibly important, so I will be working on it as soon as this guy is back up and running. I didn't describe my hand position on the bars properly though. I don't hold the bars adjacent to the stem, but on the flat part of the bars that connect to the stem. That flat part is far enough away from the levers that I can't reach them without moving my hand.

timvanderet

I've been riding this bike for a few years, but haven't put the effort in to make it my own. I agree I should give the features a try as they are after I do proper fitting and adjustments.

CliffordK

There are both friction downtube shifters and indexed shifters.

Anyway the friction shifting may be like a lost art, kind of like shifting a car with a manual transmission, or heaven forbid, a car with a manual transmission and no synchros.

The indexed shifting will click to the right spot. But, doesn't necessarily go past the correct shift spot (which then requires more precise components).

With the friction shifting, I just naturally push the lever slightly past where I want it, then after the shift, pull it back slightly to center the derailleur on the sprocket.

I'm not sure what you're saying is rattling, but rattles can be annoying. Fix your rattles so you can hear and feel your bike.

timvanderet

Here is a picture of what is rattling. Based on some research I think they're called lawers lips or tabs.

mstateglfr 

Those tabs were on Schwinn bikes in the 80s and early 90s- they were a way to ensure a wheel wouldn’t just fall off when someone didn’t properly tighten the quick release when reinstalling a wheel.

If one is rattling, just bend it outwards, meaning push it away from the wheel and spokes just a bit. No need for a lot as the rattling is just a lack of pressure against the fork. Once it is bent slightly outward, it will fit snug against the fork and wont rattle.





I really cant add much to the thread except this- take pictures. Take lots of pictures. 2 reasons- post em here so others can reference the pictures in coming months and years when looking for info of their own. Also, pictures help reduce confusion. When you take a downtube shifter apart to clean, take a picture of all the washers and spacers in the order they need to be. Same for hubs. Pictures keep frustration, improper rebuilding, and time delays down.
Take pictures of the bike and its parts before and after. Especially when starting out, it helps a ton. Being able to see how cables are routed, the direction of the seat post, etc is invaluable and you don’t have to search the internet as much.

mstateglfr 

dp

CliffordK

Ahhh, I think I got some of those tabs on some hubs I picked up recently.

Any reason not to just take those tabs off when one is rebuilding the hubs?

And, of course, get the QR tight and either pointed towards the fork, or straight back.

mstateglfr 

I keep them, really only because it keeps the period correctness in tact. I just don't need to remove my wheels so often that it’s a pain to disconnect and connect the tabs.

From the ones I have seen and worked with, the tabs can be removed, and I would think they should be if they don’t fit the fork you are using.