ppg677

I've finished my winter project and i've resorted to taking my first test ride on a trainer :-/

Anyhow my first bike with non-aero levers. And I hypothesize that because there is less of a "grip" at the brake hood, that the rider needs more core strength. Either to hold up the body more when gripping around the hood area or if riding more in the drops (which I think was more common with c&v road bikes). Does that make sense? With big hoods you can put more of your body weight on the handle bars (and yeah, that isn't necessarily good either).

All I know is that my back is sore and the fit is near identical to my other C&V frame that has big grippy brifters!

Paramount1973 

I like big grippy aero levers.

Whit51 

For me, non-aero levers seem to work quite well from the drops, not as well when riding on the hoods. I agree, when I startrted riding road bikes in the 70's riding in the drops was much more common. On the hoods was not as good of an option as today because the hoods weren't as conducive to this practice. I spent a lot of time with my hands incorrectly placed about 6-8" either side of the stem.

greg3rd48 

I definitely agree that aeros are more conducive to riding the hoods. I had not pondered this prior to this thread but there is a definite increase in the utilization of core body muscles when you ride the drops and use non-aero levers. I certainly feel the core body workout more when using these. Just adjust your riding posture to alleviate the pressure on your lower back and your core will strengthen.

John E

Aero brake handles offer about a 10% leverage advantage over non-aero, meaning you have to pull the lever 10% farther, but you can squeeze with 10% less force. For me, the most important aspect of a brake system is how well the handles fit my hands, which is why I strongly prefer Weinmanns, DiaCompes, and some Shimanos over Mafacs, Modolos, and Campagnolos, which require too long a reach for me to grab quickly and securely enough in a panic stop. The next most important parameter is the brake pad itself, which is why I have converted to KoolStop (mostly salmon, a few black) on every bicycle I own. Third is the return spring tension -- I have removed or disabled the return springs in my Shimano aero handles, which work just fine using just the calipers' return springs. Fourth is to make sure my cables move freely and that my cable housings and their stops do not have excessive compression or flex.

rhm

Strange. You guys seem to be talking about brake levers, but I think you're really discussing bicycle fit and handlebar shape.

Brake levers are obviously designed to fit handlebars. Less obvious is that they are designed to work with specific types of handlebar shapes. "Aero" levers are mostly designed for a different shape of handlebar than older "non-aero" levers.

The beauty of the older style was that your hands are always moving. Different places on the bar depending on terrain, speed, wind, etc. Reaching down to the shifters frequently. And so on. When people complain about the older gear, I wonder if it's the riding style they don't get. Similarly, when I ride a bike with modern bars and aero levers etc, there's something I'm not getting.

John E

I am sure that is partly true, but I think the introduction of aero levers predates some of the changes in handlebar shape. Pretty much irrespective of handlebar shape, I do need the shorter reach afforded by both my nonaero Weinmanns and my aero Shimanos. In contrast, non-aero Mafacs and Modolos and aero Campagnolos demand more reach than I can instantly deliver at full force.

79pmooney

In the old days, the hoods were a place you spent less than a third of your time. Good on or approaching hills to be ready to stand. But anytime the race got fast, the road rough or there was likely contact with other riders, we were taught to be in the drops. You set up bikes so the drops were all day comfortable. I don't know if we had more core strength. We did kill gloves much faster riding the hoods!

Ben

repechage

I agree with rhm. Even if when I type in his user name it wants to come up rum.
"Almost the same position" means it's not.
Not all aero levers are mechanically equal.
There was no mention of the brand(s) used in the original post, lever or brake. Or pad age even.
Plenty of variables. Including the bar brand/shape mentioned by rhm.

On my bikes with unique bar and or brake levers (anything not with Cinelli #63 's with Campagnolo levers), I have an assistant measure some key dimensions such as when I am "on the hoods" to insure my hand to pelvis distance is the same. The result is on many bikes I use an 110 mm stem but on a few I am using a 90 mm to obtain the same reach to the hoods. Test, don't guess.

Dave Cutter

Back in 1964 when riding my 63 Schwinn Varsity... I had neither... a (cushioned) "grip" at or over the brake... or the suicide lever extensions on the tops. We/I did at times ride with my hands on the tops, as well as with thumbs draped over/on the brake levers. But I would say that your hypothesis that much more riding time was spent in the drops was correct.

However. I can't say we had greater core strength. What Americans did have was lower body weight on average.

OldsCOOL

Pffffft.

Y'all need grippo for your grouppo.

Bandera

The Aero Gran Compe levers were mated to the de facto standard Cinelli 64/66 bars for our 84' racing season, worked a treat w/ DA single pivots.



That exact set-up is still in service on my Vitus today.

Riding on the hoods "back when" was what one did in a paceline, moving to the drops to pull, sprint or against a headwind.
With DT controls one moved about a fair good bit, and with higher gearing than today's (sissy) machines getting out of the saddle was more frequent and necessary.
We did just fine somehow. Changing hand positions and standing more will go a long way to alleviate complaints about numb hands and uncomfortable saddles.

-Bandera

jimmuller 

The OP asked about core strength. I'd say it isn't so much a function of the levers or hoods as about core strength. Really. Strictly anecdotal of course, but before I knew any better I used to think my UO8 fit well though I'd often end a ride with a sore back. Now I have bikes where the bar is closer and the bike feels better. But I can ride the UO8 with no discomfort at all. Give me 5 minutes on each bike and though they are all different they all feel just great. The difference is me, not the bike.

eschlwc

i never brake from the drops anymore, no matter the lever.

core strength? never had it.

Numbskull

I am no authority on any of this but since this is the internet, here goes.

If your bike position is correct the size of the brake hoods should not be a major issue. The weight on your arms should be minimal. Finding this position is no different on a vintage vs modern bike, although modern saddle and bar shapes may make it easier to achieve than with vintage stuff. Most likely the larger hoods on the first bike have been hiding a fit issue that now becomes apparent when that support is removed.

It is likely that seat height and position is a much bigger factor than the hood size for the OP.

Numbskull

This picture of Coppi vs Contador is helpful to understand the similarities/differences
1950coppi-contador.png

Numbskull

This is helpful as well ... a comparison between Coppi's 1949 bike and a new specialized. You can see the hood and seat positions are very close.

compare1.jpg

ppg677

Exactly, the older style of moving your hands more (and not riding the hoods as much) requires you to support your body more with your back instead of with your hands. It is probably a good thing, however it does require building more core strength if you are used to always riding the hoods and supporting more weight on big hoods.

rhm

Here's an experiment you can try, if you ride with your hands on the hoods a lot. Oh, you need a speedometer or cyclocomputer, too. Here it is:
Get up to a comfortable speed on a flat road you're familiar with. Go your normal speed and note to yourself what speed you're going. Now take the weight of your arms. Relax your arms, bend your elbows, and settle in to your comfortable speed again. Now look at your speedometer again. What happened to your speed?

Bandera

That is proper Old School technique, which works today.



edit:
A firm, relaxed elbows bent position lets the bike work under the rider w/o jarring stresses.
The machine will follow your eyes and go where you look, let it work under you especially on rough surfaces.
When one is inevitably bumped/elbowed/shouldered you are in control when firmly relaxed w/ bent elbows to fend/absorb any jostling.
Works from any position: hoods, drops, tops, sitting or standing.
Who needs a suspension fork w/ proper Old School technique?

-Bandera

OldsCOOL

I did this about 4yrs ago when riding the hoods in a decent headwind. My speed jumped 2.5mph and I could feel it. I have trained in the drops ever since.