Funky 8 speed Helicomatic?
02-28-15, 09:27 AM
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Funky 8 speed Helicomatic?
Never seen one of these before. I wanted to take it off and lose the dork disc until I realized it's integrated with the 32 cog, stamped and pressed. Dis-assembly is awkward requiring chainwhips to remove the outer small freewheel to get access to the second helicomatic freewheel. They were frozen and wouldn't separate so I'll just rebuild. I spins well. It's also 126 old spaced so it has big dish with an MA rim.
Anyone know if it will index? maybe it would make a nice 1 X 8 large wide range ride. Bright ideas welcome.
Anyone know if it will index? maybe it would make a nice 1 X 8 large wide range ride. Bright ideas welcome.
02-28-15, 10:24 AM
#2
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I did a quick search and it looks like they were Mae until approximately 1980? That predates indexed shifting. However I've used "pre- indexing" rear derailleurs, for example and they indexed just fine. So I'd just try it and it it works, you could tell us how you did it. More information for the next one who comes along.
It it requires a particular, specialized tool I think.
It it requires a particular, specialized tool I think.
02-28-15, 11:53 AM
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I've got the tool but what the picture doesn't show is that the engagement splines are recessed about 2 or 3 cogs in, requiring a two step removal process.
02-28-15, 12:53 PM
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02-28-15, 02:59 PM
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03-01-15, 04:47 PM
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Wow. I sold Treks and Peugeots in the 80's and have never heard of a Maillard Helicomatic greater than 6 speed. Obviously, I am looking at the picture os an 8 speed. Interesting, with the spoke protector punched out of the largest rear sprocket, which others have also done. You need a special Helicomatic round tool to unscrew the silver ring to remove the freewheel , and then chain whips to take the first 2 or 3 cogs off. The rest usually have 4 splines on them that fit into the helicomatic body.
03-02-15, 10:15 PM
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This is interesting, and I thought it was perhaps kluged until seeing the mysterious "SDS 8/8" markings.
Even the 6-speed Helicomatic freewheels were narrow-spaced, for use with the then-new Sedisport chain.
These hubs were poorly designed in terms of preserving needed space for both the cog stack and for wheel dish considerations.
Dish was poor both because of the excessive space toward the spokes and because of excessive axle extension at the dropout.
Bearing size somehow also fell victim to the Helicomatic hub's design.
It looks like someone at long last optimized the Helicomatic design mess, and in so doing made use of the wasted space.
I used to tinker with Helicomatic freewheel hubs and found I could use the screw-together smallest cogs to expand a six-speed to seven.
I stopped using Helicomatic after first having one freewheel loosen up during a ride, and later finding that my conversion to Command indexed shifters allowed the chain to skate over the primitive Maillard cogs.
This one seems to have perhaps moved the freewheel's largest cog closer to the spokes, in a possible mimicking of Shimano's freehub optimizations, but as the OP stated there is still a whole lot of dish to this 126mm hub.
The integral (and sturdy-looking) spoke protector ring is clever, but I've seen this done with large chainrings so may not be an original idea.
Can anyone guess what SDS means? Sedis Drive System?
Even the 6-speed Helicomatic freewheels were narrow-spaced, for use with the then-new Sedisport chain.
These hubs were poorly designed in terms of preserving needed space for both the cog stack and for wheel dish considerations.
Dish was poor both because of the excessive space toward the spokes and because of excessive axle extension at the dropout.
Bearing size somehow also fell victim to the Helicomatic hub's design.
It looks like someone at long last optimized the Helicomatic design mess, and in so doing made use of the wasted space.
I used to tinker with Helicomatic freewheel hubs and found I could use the screw-together smallest cogs to expand a six-speed to seven.
I stopped using Helicomatic after first having one freewheel loosen up during a ride, and later finding that my conversion to Command indexed shifters allowed the chain to skate over the primitive Maillard cogs.
This one seems to have perhaps moved the freewheel's largest cog closer to the spokes, in a possible mimicking of Shimano's freehub optimizations, but as the OP stated there is still a whole lot of dish to this 126mm hub.
The integral (and sturdy-looking) spoke protector ring is clever, but I've seen this done with large chainrings so may not be an original idea.
Can anyone guess what SDS means? Sedis Drive System?
03-02-15, 10:24 PM
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Try it out. It seems to lack all the shaped teeth that are supposed to augment indexed shifting. However, it might work, especially if the derailleur is set close to the sprockets and has minimal play in the upper jockey wheel. Can you verify if the cog spacing is the same as a standard 8 speed cassette?
03-02-15, 10:26 PM
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Sedis Dorkdisc System??
Sorry I could not help myself...
Sorry I could not help myself...
03-03-15, 01:48 AM
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I've read somewhere that SDS was the name of a short-lived integrated shifting system by Sachs-Huret, indexed or at least primitively so. All further info seems to have vanished.
03-03-15, 08:18 AM
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I was always intrigued by Helicomatic, so went poking around - seems to be lots of mention in German of the SDS system on the web.
I didn't find a SDS answer, but did find "The Helicomatic Museum" here.
I didn't find a SDS answer, but did find "The Helicomatic Museum" here.
Or that translation.
There's some neat information in there, but what I find interesting is that on a site that's dedicated to the Helicomatic- this is in there:
I would suggest to all but the most fanatic about originality to stay away from Helicomatic or replace any Helicomatic hub with a model for Which It is Easier to source spare parts.
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Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
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03-03-15, 08:29 AM
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Here we have it, German answer to Positron:
Sursee Klassiker Da.. City Sport Rad aus der Schweiz in Baden-Württemberg - Heubach | Gebrauchte Damenfahrräder kaufen | eBay Kleinanzeigen
Sursee Klassiker Da.. City Sport Rad aus der Schweiz in Baden-Württemberg - Heubach | Gebrauchte Damenfahrräder kaufen | eBay Kleinanzeigen
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