nlerner

This one came to me via the big auction site, and I thought I might crowd source possible origins. Distinguishing features include

--fastback seat cluster
--Carlton-type head tube lugs
--Cinelli-like fork crown
--Campagnolo dropouts
--two top tube cable guides (and that's it for braze-ons)
--two horizontal holes drilled for a head badge
--English threading
--takes a 27.2mm seatpost
--serial #7349 on the non-drive side rear dropout.

Any guesses? Thanks!

lostarchitect 

My gut reaction is that it looks like of like a Raleigh Pro, but that's not based on much.

nlerner

It certainly shares features, but the head tube rivets would be at the top and bottom if a Raleigh, not side to side. And that's a different serial # location and format than what Raleigh did. But thanks for guessing!

rhm

Does the serial number repeat on the steerer?

lostarchitect 

Hmm, could it be a MurfDog then?

TimmyT 

+1 It's a MurfDog Professional 531 with fastback stays.

CliffordK

Any markings on the bottom bracket? Photos?

Cinelli used a similar seat stay to seat tube connection, but I don't think it is an exact match.

Many large manufactures used thier own marks on the dropouts, so using Campy dropouts may put it as being made by a low volume manufacturer.

nlerner

It does not. I also couldn't see remnants of an original color on the fork steerer.

No marks on the BB. That four-digit serial # does indicate to me that it's a small manufacturer. And perhaps the first two digits indicate 1973?

rhm

+1, yes, that's the important point. Alternatively, perhaps not.

CliffordK

My Colnago has no S/N.
My Litespeed has a 4 digit S/N.

I suppose having a S/N indicates that it isn't a one-off home-built. But, also probably isn't a Trek or Peugeot.

unworthy1

Prugnat longpoint lugs and a Haden (or Davis) full-sloping forkcrown, Campy dropouts...I'd start thinking "Holdsworth Super Mistral" except the fastback version of that frame never had that "Dutch"pinch-bolt treatment...nor the serial number stamped on the LH DO.
So either repair/reworked or (more likely) some other Brit bike of similar quality (which is a good thing).

nlerner

Ah, excellent--thanks!

I was building it up last night and had a few moments of uncertainty when the English-threaded BB I wanted to use didn't seem to want to thread in. I wondered if the BB threading might be Italian, but I don't have any Italian-threaded cups on hand to try. Next, I tried a different English-threaded BB, and it went in without a hitch.

RobE30

Whatever it is, it'd look better at my house

noglider 

For some reason, I feel like I've seen a Witcomb that looked like that, but I might be fabricating a memory.

nlerner

But you already have a murf dog.

lostarchitect 

But this one won't poo in the yard.

RobE30

Precisely.

unworthy1

looking again, it has some odd juxtapositions. The fastback/Dutch pinch bolt is rather more "modern" and combined with the 2 (very "Colnago") TT cable guides seems a little out of place (more '80s) on a frame with no other braze-ons (except the slightly antique cable loop and stop for RD on the chainstay) and obviously older Campy 1010A dropouts (shaved off eyelets?), a headbadge and nutted brakes.
I'd guess that the TT cable guides were definite add-ons, and it's possible that the fastback work might have been done at the same time.
All speculation, of course, but other than those touches the rest of the frame seems very much in the right style for 1973, UK.

nlerner

One of the reasons this frame caught my eye is that it shares many of the features of my Wes Mason, as well as MKM frames overall. But the serial # isn't right for those, and I haven't seen any examples of that sloping fork crown on MKM frames. I've actually built it up in the last day or so and will subject it to a test ride in the deep puddles that are covering Boston-area roadways. Without trying for any kind of light weight components, total weight built up is a bit shy of 23 lbs, so it definitely leans towards high end.

non-fixie 

Well, whatever it is, it's a very nice frame. At a first glance I thought '84 Raleigh Competition, but too many details are off. But then again, Raleigh did make some bikes that were never documented in the catalogs.

lostarchitect 

My Wes Mason has a sloping fork crown like that. Seatstay cluster is totally different, though. (I still haven't built this up, by the way.)

mechanicmatt

Well no downtube shifters for me would mean 70's bike. The fastback stays look like Eisentraut or some apprentice of his, but there are Ron Cooper's (first light blue bike in this thread https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...er-thread.html) that look similar. That Ron Cooper looks way similar in fact, fork looks about right too. I was going to say that the front fork shape looks British as well. The thing throwing me off is the flair of the head tube lugs.

Still looks a little 70's british to me. Are there grooves in the bottom bracket lug for cables? Or is it meant to have one of those Campy band things?

RobE30

Murphdog

mechanicmatt

from that thread, "cranky old road" 's bike:

nlerner

I have an '84 Raleigh Gran Course, which has the same seat stay treatment and a sloping fork crown, but lugs are quite different, plus it has typical 80s braze ons (e.g., one water bottle mount, downtube shifter mounts, derailleur guides).

Interesting! That's the one with the effed top tube, right?

No grooves under the BB, and, yes, I installed a clamp on Campy derailleur guide. Interesting to see those resemblances to the Ron Cooper--though the serial # is in a different place.