Katiesmalls

Is there a way to tell from the serial number which P model Paramount it is? L7528 is the number, it has fender and carrier screw holders on the drop outs. It has very ornate ( almost flame looking Chrome drop outs, and Italian threaded Bottom Bracket. Thank you in advance for any help. I plan to send it to Waterford for complete restoration. It is actually beautiful, not a dent ding or rust but after 40 years could use fresh paint. Just tryi ng to figure out which model it actually is. thanks

Katiesmalls

All the original equipment on it led me to believe it is a P10-9. Large flange hubs, strada crank, rear weinmann center pull, campy front side pull, ?? Brooks team pro, Nuovo rear derailleur, etc etc but the Schwinn catalogue shows the picture of what appears to be 3 top tube brake cable screw on clamps. Mine has the welded on brake stop bosses, front and rear. thanks

Kactus

It was made in 1975. The fender eyes mean it is either a P-10 or P-15.

Metacortex

L7528 indicates the 28th frame in Nov. '75. The rack/fender eyelets indicate that it would have been either a P10 or P15, however a pic of the top tube with brazed on cable stops would confirm. I don't think Schwinn ever used Italian threaded bottom brackets on Paramounts.

Katiesmalls

there is a 36X24 in there Would the thread not have have started if it was not threaded for Italian? Or was it forced in? The bike was actually pretty well maintained, in my opinion, the seat post came out without me losing any blood, and so did the stem. Is it possible the BB was threaded Italian, or is that a definite no no. Either way its going to Waterford for a once over, I am sure they can re-tap but my question is this. Italian and English I know are different widths, would a Italian thread BB go into an English/American/Japan frame BB shell without destroying it. One thread is smaller than the other I remember, can't say which is which anymore, if the Italian was the smaller or finer of the two, is it possible it went into an English BB ( bigger ) without ruining it


Just found this " Italian: 36mm x 24 TPI. Both sides of the shell have right-hand threads. The 36 mm diameter is slightly larger than the English 1.370". If you try to insert an English bb set into an Italian shell, it will just slip in. When the threads of an English bottom bracket get stripped, it can usually be be reamed and re-threaded Italian. You still have to use a 70mm spindle, however. "

Katiesmalls

So in all likelihood, someone stripped the English BB threads and put a Italian threaded cone set in. Not a game changer, as long as when I order my newer parts thats what I know I need. I don't think once the steel material is gone on a Bottom Bracket you can go back to a smaller ( English thread ) that I know of unless there is some sort of insert I never knew of. The Italian would be fine if it was done properly. I just picked up the bike this evening so I know enough to give it a rest before doing more damage. Will see how smoothly the BB comes out tomorrow and what the threads look like. to all who contributed Thank You very much
My options are to send it to Waterford for a repaint $1000, have a local body shop do it for about $300, or clean it up, hang some nice Campy mid level stuff on it, and use it as my daily rider. I have about $350 into the bike with almost all the original parts.

Katiesmalls

OK, 3AM couldn't sleep until I looked into it more. The headset is marked only on the under/inner side of the top race cone England Or English, 1x24 I forgot this second and don't want to have to go into garage and wash my feet again when I come in. The BB came out easily,( not to easily ) I put the fixed cup in a vice and used the frame for leverage ( turning ) It is right handed threads. The threads inside the BOTTOM BRACKET SEEMED CRISP AND NO SIGNS OF TOOL MARKINGS, cross threading or problems. ( TO THE NAKED EYE ) BUT IT IS 3AM SO WILL LOOK TAKE BETTER PICS IN MORNING. Is there any chance the bike may have come with a Italian bottom bracket? Either way, the threads are so nice inside the Bottom bracket that any Italian newly purchased bottom bracket should fit well. Kinda a relief as I really wanted to do a beautiful build and knowing the Bottom bracket may be an issue in the future when re-building, would be a head ache. The way the threads look I would not hesitate to going the full boat and sending it to Waterford for a complete repaint, stickers, badges, chroming. I think I will go just Gloss black with gold pin striping, and re-chroming. Any thoughts I do appreciate them.? Definitely a 23 inch P-10, Every piece of component matches the 1975 catalogue, some pics show it without top brake cable housing stops welded on, others show it with a front and rear closer to the drive side.
I recently sold a Trek 970 on the Bay, it had a Cinelli BB and Shimano drop outs. According to their website ( TREK ) this combo never happened. Basically cannibalizing parts from a bin and building them quickly if possible w/o waiting for new drop outs to come in. I sold it for $600 plus the shipping and the buyer has it on display, not for riding, ( or touching ) It was his holy grail the red and yellow one. Again the only reason I mention the Trek, is to say sometimes these companies in yrs past utilized all their parts to stay above water. Maybe Schwinn did the same

pastorbobnlnh 

It is safe to say all of the Chicago and the Waterford Paramounts used English BB threading, not Italian. Most likely the threads on your P10 were stripped as you surmised and a proper fix was accomplished correctly.

If you have the funds, a Waterford refinish is the way to go. I'm guessing they could install a new English threaded BB for you at this time if you feel this is important. Do you plan to update it with modern SIS/Ergo gear? I know they can properly spread the rear dropouts to 130mm by replacing the chain and seat stay bridges as well.

repechage

Before a respray decision is made, clean up all the chrome and polish it. Then decide on what to do, rationally. Personally, I would build the bike up and ride it before investing $1k in a restoration. If it passes that test, go forward.

With the added diameter of an Italian bottom bracket, it does not surprise me that there is no evidence of its English past.

As to where to get it painted... Not an auto body shop, but I would reference other specialized bicycle painters, then decide. The ultimate value of the frame will be held back due to the bottom bracket re thread.

Katiesmalls

Pastor thank you for the response. I would like to use a new pair of Dura ace barons and a 6 speed Regina. I would like to keep the paint at under $1000 if thats possible. Just a glossy black some pinstripe and new decals. I have some beautiful Campy stuff sitting in bins here. I can't see putting in a new bottom bracket shell if the Italian one (now it is ) will allow mine just use Italian cups. I know it may take away some of the collector value, but at this stage in my life its really not an issue. Eventually after I finish enjoying it my sons will probably sell it in a garage sale for $35 dollars or so. Anyway, thank you again. Charlie

CV-6 

Oh how true. LOL

Kobe 

If you have any problems with the Italian bottom bracket, Velo-Orange makes a thread less bottom bracket adapter. I am like you and would go with the Italian too if it works.

Grand Cru Threadless Bottom Bracket - Bottom Brackets - Components

Ex Pres 

This part of the instructions are wrong. Now you can either:1. use a 2mm spacer on either side of the BB shell and adjust your chainline, or 2. you use the 68mm spindle. If you don't use the spacer, and use a 70mm spindle, you end up with a protruding cup - just like yours.

I have a French frame rethreaded Italian. It's never really been an issue, and I've gone both spacer and spacer-less.

bikingshearer 

All good answers and info here. There is one more possibility regarding the model, though - it is possible, though not at all likely, that the eyelets are on it not because it is a P-10/P-15 (whichever of those designations Schwinn was using in 1975), but because it was a special/custom order. Paramounts could be had as custom orders, although my sense is that such beasties were far less common than the usual stock offerings.

Katiesmalls

Received a rough quote over the phone today from Waterford. Without getting into specifics, ( too tired ) I could think of better things to do with $1500. Anyway as you can see in picture, garage is dark, its late, fork is already repainted, frame is the next few days project. Will fill you in on progress thank you

pastorbobnlnh 

A top shelf refinish from a top self company is never chump change. Careful thought is always needed before proceeding. I learned this the hard way. Experience!

OldDog1

P10 / P15 - the P15 came with the rare Campy Triple in 36/49/54 tooth rings. I have a 1972 P-15, I am the original owner. To the right collector those Campy triples will sell for more than the complete bikes alone these days..

repechage

I would hope it included chrome for that price.

rhenning

This is what a Waterford paint job looks like on a Paramount. Bike is a Dec 1967 and paint is basic black but has the best shine depth that I have ever seen on a bicycle. Roger

Katiesmalls

Rhenning that bike is beautiful. I also have 3 black Waterford Paramounts. They truly are stunning. Too nice to ride, that is why this one will be perfect when I am finished. Roughly $750 for Chrome, $225 for a head badge, $75 for decals, Clearcoat $200. Now that doesn't include the fork, or Chrome. Also add $400 for a new Bottom bracket, and shipping both ways, its just a losing deal. Its gonna ride beautiful,I gaurantee that, all Super Record, and Mavic 700s I just laced up on a small flange with DP Dbl butted spokes cross 4. Will go outside and see if I can get a Pic. thanks

Katiesmalls

This Paramount was a gift to me from someone I never even met. My wife works in a Dept where her Lieutenant is a avid rider. Minumim, 10,000 miles each and every year and has toured every corner of our Country on Bicycle, a lot of it with his dad. Anyway, the Paramount was in big time disrepair, and had already been painted twice since his father bought it new in 1975. ( His father is deceased ). Anyway, he knew my love of Paramounts and told my wife to just come and take it as his bike room was over flowing. Couldn't just take it so found a bike local that was modern and probably even or maybe slightly higher value than a Paramount in the condition it was in. But, can you imagine, and I know a lot of people here hate cops, this man gave me his dead fathers bike out of the goodness of his heart. He had no idea I had a trade waiting outside for him. Long story short the Paramount has seen better days. It came with all Campy original stuff but hart to find an area on any part that isn't used ( worn ) very very much. I have too many show bikes. They just sit on a few racks in my bedroom and I enjoy staring at them until I fall asleep. This Paramount That was a gift I am hoping gives me ( transfers ) from his dad my love of cycling again. It has been gone a long time. It is getting treated to a well applied rattle can black paint, all new repacking the bearings as need be, and any new parts that are worn past the originals use. Otherwise it will be a VERY VERY well tuned Campy bike with a stealth ( nice name for Rattle can ) paint job, DA bar cons, Mavic 700s I just laced up specifically for this bike, and a new Brooks Union Jack Red saddle. As someone suggested, I thank you I picked up a 2mm spacer for the crank fixed cup, gonna re-assemble, a little blue loctite, Campy SR front rear Derailleur, and enjoy the ( excuse my language S$#T out of it ). To all who responded I thank you, please stand by as I post pics and may need your technical help as the build progresses. thank you.
Quick clarification- I don't want to debate, argue, prove , disprove, ( too much negative energy involved ) that there are quite a few members here ( granted, in other Forums, mostly younger, ) that surprised me by having vile things to say about Law Enforcement. I am no hero of Cops, like all jobs some are bad some are great, just the way it is, but there is a lot of anti Police posts on this Site. Right wrong I don't know, I know if someone just ran my wife over the first thing I would do is call 9/11, for help, but maybe I am living past my usefulness. I suspect even those haters who hide behind key boards would do the same, even with there disapproval of Police.

Katiesmalls

Bought two 1 MM spacers at a local shop. Put them on the fixed cup, locked it in on a vice, with a little blue loctite, put the adjusting side in, everything lined up better than imaginable. Now that the messy part is mainly over, gonna try to do one small project a day on the bike, and not rush it. The Bike came with a Weinmann rear side pull. Interesting because I read some literature where there was an issue with Campy rear brakes and the welded on brake stops of the frame. They are both on opposite sides, the adjuster barrel, and the stop, so a Weinmann center pull alleviated that by having the cable go from the stop to a center seat post hanger stop. Much aesthetically more pleasing. I am going to stay with that set up. However, now that I have 700s the original front brake is too short to reach the rim. Any suggestions please. A cheaper long reach single front caliper off EBAY? A drop bolt? another center pull for the front?. Thanks to all here are some quick pics, have lots of nice stuff coming from EBAY in the next few days. Non Aero Hoods, a decal package, and a few others.

pastorbobnlnh 

A drop bolt, 27" wheels, center pull, or long reach caliper? Choices, choices, choices!

Your best bet might be to move to 27" wheels. In which case a drop bolt might still be needed, depending on the reach of the caliper. I needed a drop bolt in the rear on the '66 P13 I used to own. It was designed for and used 27" wheels, but the Campagnolo caliber still did not have enough reach.

On the '71 P13 I currently own and ride, I don't need a drop bolt, but that is only because while it was designed for 700c tubular wheels, I run 27"clinchers. It's a tight fit, but they work. You can see approximately how much space I have left for a downward adjustment I have left.





Since you own a P10 or P15 (the top tube brake cable stops were used on these models in '75), and it was designed for 27" wheels, I'd suggest going that route.

Katiesmalls

Decided I can not keep pouring money into these bikes. It is a bad cycle ( no pun intended ) and losing proposition at that. The rear Weinmann fit perfectly no modification, gonna stay with that. Reamed out the front brake caliper arms slots and was able to lower the front pads enough to become friends with the rim. Waiting for the rest of the small parts to come, maybe I will throw on the DA Bar end shifters and gears today.
As others here have correctly pointed out, this bike has no collected value, and just needs to ride as nice as possible for the least amount possible.
Just picked up this 50th anniversary post for the 50th anniversary paramount

Katiesmalls

A Few minor details left to do coming in the mail. Rode It about 20 miles today, very nice. Would write a quick funny story about it, but a few ignorant people here took my writing for me being an idiot, as their "odd neighbor", I'm not and that is an insult. To everyone else here's just a nice pic of an old 75 Paramount and no story. A few stickers, a 15 speed campy crank, and a brooks saddle, all on order and a nice old riding bicycle, not to worry about scratches and paint nicks.