willydstyle

One of the sellers on my local craigslist periodically puts up vintage-ish bikes for sale, with photographs taken in the exact same location.

Is it more likely that this seller is a thief, a flipper, or just cleaning out their garage? Is there any way to tell?

https://corvallis.craigslist.org/bik/4924458626.html

https://corvallis.craigslist.org/bik/4904656868.html

Kactus

Probably a flipper. If you think he's a thief, call the PD and ask if the bikes are on the stolen list.

72Paramount

I don't see anything that would indicate stolen goods.

daf1009

Nothing indicates a thief...probably an entrepreneur that buys and sells bikes...I am starting to hate the word "flipper"...as it is used here...the context seems to always be "trying to get something over on someone"...or...

It seems that this relationship is becoming more true... Flipper = con artist

There are "flippers" that are bad for what we do...but...many are simply wanting to take an older bike, make it better for someone, get them on it...and make a little bit of additional $$$ to fund our N+1 habit. Personally, I am not really a flipper...I typically part bikes out (unless they have some significance...like almost totally original or something)...while many do not like the extra online work of parting out, I enjoy it. But, again, all I am trying to do is provide a service (which I think I do...) and to make enough on each bike that I buy to "put some in the N+1" kitty...so that I can buy that next bike for my collection.

Ok...sorry for a bit of a hi jack...but...from the ads shown here, the guy and/or gal doing it seems to "flip" bikes...but...prices seem about right for a market like Corvallis...the Fuji may be a tad high. For my Atlanta market, the Fuji would probably be about $200 and the Trek is right on point...so...it seems he is not a "flipper" trying to get rich...and they both seem to be in rideable shape as is. Maybe not completely overhauled, you cannot tell from the ads...but reasonably so.

Also, the pics are well done...and show most of the detail you would want...at least they are drive side! And the fact that they use the same spot? Well, when you talk about taking good pictures of bikes, background is often a key...and his/hers is decent. When I take pictures of the frames I am selling...it is generally, almost always, the same spot in my yard...

OK...one last thing...it is the middle of the night for me...and I cannot sleep...so am looking here to distract me...so...if anything I said offends and/or does not make sense...take that into consideration!

eschlwc

please move thread to trollheim where it belongs

Road Fan

Just to be fair, for a while C&V seemed a few years ago to be dominated by discussions among flippers, about what was worth what, where in the country there was demand and where not, et cetera. Some of whom I knew well and respected as local bike buds, to again be fair. I knew pretty well how they came by their "raw materials," and I firmly believe it was honest hobby/business.

I even bought a few bikes from them - one 3-speed to set up for a friend who was convalescing, and another frame to build up for my Rando/Cheapo idea (still under development).

I don't see any reason to assume a CL seller is a thief, and I don't think flippers are necessarily shady. I know some who are not.

Thumpic

What if he's neither one? What if (as he states) he just got a new bike? I've got a couple of boats. If I dropped 60k on a new rig; I'd probably sell off one or two.

I don't understand (or care really) about the undertone of disdain for flippers. I think it's jealousy driven.

I agree about the trollish nature of this thread.

thinktubes 

+1 - this forum needs to get over posting about people engaging in free enterprise.

Bill Kapaun

I 'flip" bikes on this same local CL, although the last couple years I've been busy with home maintenance instead.
There are several people in this area that are obvious flippers. More so in Corvallis because of OSU.
There's nothing in the ad that allows you to tell either way about the honesty of the seller.
All it tells me is I've been selling too cheap!

BTW, I always used the same background for my bikes. I figure people that bought from me before would recognize it and buy again because they know they got a well serviced bike.

I've also "recruited" at least one BF member when we did a parts transaction.

Cougrrcj

I find lots of good, rideable bikes in the trash. Most just need a tire/tube or some other component. Granted, I'm not talking a mid-high level bike, but rather BSOs. One that I sold to a buddy for $25 looked brand new other than the rear derailleur was broken -- probably from maladjustment that allowed it to go into the spokes. I took the rear-d from another garbage-picked BSO and he has himself a 'pit bike' for riding around our local dragstrip.

The next tier is usually found at garage sales. I bought a like-new Trek 1100 for $85 that still had the nibs on the original dryrotted tires. New tires and tubes and I sold it for $125. I didn't make anything over cost, but someone got themselves a decent bike (that was too small for me). Another is the much-too-tall Nishiki that I bought for $75 for the more modern components to upgrade one of my older bikes. I did not follow through with that plan, so it sits in the garage awaiting a very tall new owner.

The Cleveland Craigslist has a couple of 'bike fixers' that are always selling multiple bikes. I'm sure they are getting them from the curb, garage sales or thrift stores. He probably puts a little elbow grease and new consumables on them and sends them on their way, usually at the 'going market rate'. I don't know his story, but who is to say he's not out-of-work and trying to make ends meet, or maybe simple retired and tinkering around on bikes for something to do and get a few bucks in his pocket.

Now if someone is advertising a high-end bike for $35, then I'd get suspicious.

bradtx

A clue could be that the two bikes are the same size...

Brad

daf1009

Interesting...

I do not see this as trollish...if you do not want to discuss what is in the thread, then don't...

I think that the OP had a legit question...as maybe he was interested in those bikes and did not want to get involved with potential legal issues...and the thread progressed into a bit of discussion on flipping, a fairly common topic for C&V...but...always needing more exploration and discussion.

Dave Cutter

I am old retired guy... and a cyclist. I ride a couple thousand miles a year in a short Midwestern cycling season. In the winter months (to pass the time) I step-up my weight-lifting and calisthenics, read the cycling forms, watch bicycle-related movies on DVD, AND I wrench on old bicycles.

Some of the bikes I obtain at yard sales... that I pass when cycling. Some I get on CL... often for cheap (and needing repairs). In the spring I sell my extra bikes... as I only have so much space for my collection. Some times a make some money, sometimes I don't even break even. I also enjoy [the advocacy of] giving away a bike from time to time. On a whole I make a few extra bucks.

I don't think of myself as a bad person for finding a way to more easily afford my cycling hobby. I don't even consider myself as a flipper.... although some bikes I have quickly repaired, cleaned, and flipped on CL. Some of the bikes I sell hung on my man cave wall for a while as part of my collection. Or I may have ridden the bike for a while.

I consider myself a bicyclist, hobbyist, and enthusiast.

Here is an example of a bike I bought last year I paid the full $25 dollar asking price. The bike was incomplete needing rim strips, new tires, handle bar tape and more:



Now... it's not a bad looking... and a great riding old bike. I will list it soon on CL and if I am lucky I might may a few bucks for the bicycle kitty. That's money... I can spend on a charity ride.

bmthom.gis

I think a clue is the seller putting a triple on the fuji ... no thief is going to take the time to do that

Cougrrcj

A guy like Dave Cutter is exactly who I was referring to in my previous post. There really ARE guys that like fixing bikes. Some do it in the off season, some do it year 'round.

tarwheel 

I think a lot of so-called "flippers" are providing a legitimate service. That is, refurbishing old bikes with new cables, tires, bar tape, and providing much-needed maintenance. I presume that most of these "flippers" are buying old bikes at garage and estate sales for cheap prices and then trying to resell them for a moderate profit. From the ads and prices I see on our local Craigslist, many of these refurbished bikes are bargains when you consider what it would cost someone to refurbish an old bike at the LBS.

The typical old bike sold at garage sales or Craigslist ads is dirty, dusty and greasy with rotting tires, rusted cables and ratty bar tape. The gears and brakes are probably out of adjustment, and who knows what condition the BB, headset and wheel bearings are in. Someone buying such a bike would have to invest a fair amount of time and/or effort to refurbish them.

Our local Craiglist has one particular "flipper" who typically has 10-20 bikes for sale at any one time. He has a link to his website, and I've looked at his inventory. I would not hesitate to buy a bike from him at his usual asking prices. I don't understand why anyone would object to this, unless it's just sour grapes.

Thumpic

if you assume (as you did) all the motives of the OP then maybe you're right. However the OP expressed no interest in anything about the bikes; size, value, condition, age, upgrades, etc. He simply started a thread casting aspersions on a seller and flippers. Whether or not people participate in a thread does not define it as being trollish.

mstateglfr 

Nothing about either ad would make me think anything other than those are nice rehabs available at what seems like decent prices. No idea the local market, but I cant imagine they are more than $50 off.

The Fuji has a triple on the front now, a rear rack, and aero levers- all add ons. If anything, the bikes look like they have been taken care of.

As for the pictures being in the same place- oh the horror! Am I missing something here?- how is that indicative of stolen bikes? The seller took pictures in the same location- that happens thousands of times over every day across the country on craigslist.

mstateglfr 

Agree completely. I have sold 5 bikes over the last 6 months and I wouldn't consider any of them to be flipped, even though 4 of them were bought for me to work on and sell. I take them completely apart, clean out and flush all crud and dirt, get rid of any rusting, spot touch paint if beneficial, repack all bearings, change out pads tires bartape and cables if needed, and adjust everything so it is ready to ride. I see that as working to make the bikes roadworthy and giving the local market options(albeit few) that are cheaper than retail and better than big box. I don't price stuff to get rich, I price it to move once its ready to sell so I can make a little to further fund my addiction to bikes and cycling and move on.
There are some sellers that I would consider flippers in my area and its nuts to see what they do- they powerwash the bike and post a single blurry picture with no useful information and for a high price. It somehow works because they cycle thru inventory, but I dislike it. I usually think of flipping and getting in and out quickly, but in this case they are happy to hold onto bikes for a long time- they just do almost nothing(and perhaps hurt) to prep the bikes.

jimmuller 

Hmm. I recently put a triple on a Fuji with the intent to give it someone or sell it. I guess I'm not a thief either. Really, I'm not!

But seriously, there is someone in the Boston area who typically has dozens of bikes simultaneously on CL. He tries to hide his flipperness by listing them all as "by individual", not "a store", and giving the locations as at half a dozen different places around the metro area. But a comparison of the contact info or the photo backgrounds makes it pretty clear they are all from the same person. Another commonality is the prices are quite high, even exorbitant. A year or so ago someone created a bunch of abusive listings calling him out. Well, more power (and income) to him as a seller. He is keeping the bikes in circulation, and if he has done proper maintenance then he is making good bikes available for students and such.

On the other hand it bothers me a bit too for a few reasons. His listing technique is deceptive. He tries to make it look like he is "just a guy selling an unused bike he no longer rides". His high prices are more than I'd pay for a whimsical 'nother-bike purchase (though I prefer to build them up myself anyway), and his volume means he is grabbing just about any used bike or frame off the market as soon as they come up, which means I'll likely never find something interesting. In fact, I rarely see anything on CL that is both interesting and affordable, and the problem is usually the high price because it is one of his. But fortunately I never look seriously. If I were selling, which I am not, I could probably undercut his prices. So in the end I'm neutral about it 'cuz it ain't my business.

To the OP's point, yeah these guys exist. It doesn't make him a thief. He may or may not be a scrupulous vendor. Judge the bike by its condition and price.

Cyclosaurus

I see a few of these guys on CL in my area. They usually have multiple bikes, all taken from the same vantage point. But their stuff is usually 1) in great-looking condition, 2) higher-quality stuff (not low-end huffys or schwinns, etc), 3) well documented as far as size, components, etc and 4) priced reasonably. I'll take that kind of person over the all too common one-off CL seller who wants a fortune for an dirty old bike. Yes, it's clear they are "flippers", but they don't deserve to be seen as suspicious.

clubman 

The guys listings are fine. 2 bikes, just the facts, little hyperbole. We're reading way too much into it.

Anyone here sell a part on ebay for a profit? Flipping components is another name for it. Buy cheap sell dear seems to be the order of the day.

My problem is I'll buy cheap and dear and not want to sell any of it. Although I am forced to do so on occasion.

Fahrenheit531 

Definitely a thief. Vigilantism with extreme prejudice is required, like yesterday.
Please ship any and all recovered bikes to me. I can't believe they transported them so far away.

likebike23

+1. Both bikes are around the same size also. It's possible that the guy/girl fixes up bikes, rides them for a while and sells what isn't keeper material.

Velocivixen

There is a wonderful retired man, who I bought my Moto & Miyata from. He takes photos in the same location at his home and uses the exact same wording, except for the specific bike description. He buys & sells vintage "mid level" bikes, and services them. I'm pretty sure he's not a thief. I happily refer people to him.