Hit a wall - major training slump . . .
#26
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Glad things are looking up for you. Great community here.
#27
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After a couple very long (90-120 mi), huge hill (11,000+ ft) rides, my legs felt similar. Actually measured FTP on my KICKR and I was down 10 watts, in spite of doing these monster climbs. Mentally, I was sick of riding and depressed at my declines. Took nearly two weeks off...and had my strongest effort ever on the closest thing I have to a race, the Park Hill Peloton group ride in Denver.
When I googled overtraining, I had all the classic symptoms and it seems like you do as well.
When I googled overtraining, I had all the classic symptoms and it seems like you do as well.
#28
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Glad to hear rest and food fixed it. Two pounds is not a slide backwards at all, my friend. Even if it is 2 pounds of fat, it's just fuel for your next 60 mile ride. And you may have put on two pounds of muscle in those days off - or maybe you're slightly constipated, or maybe you're finally fully hydrated.. point is, on a body your size, two pounds is in the "Don't worry about it" category.
When I have a ride that feels like you describe, I take 1-3 days off and I obey these three rules:
1. EAT. EAT ALL THE THINGS. Carbs, double protein, whatever sounds good. No junk, though! You want carbs, go ahead and have them, but make sure they come from things you'd feed people you love. Nothing with a wrapper or ingredients you can't pronounce. Besides, if you're going to hit the cheesecake, why would you save a couple bucks and douse yourself in guar gum and yellow #5 ?
2. DRINK. DRINK. DRINK. I use Ultima for my on-bike hydration and on those "uh-oh" days, I down half a gallon as well. Can't hurt, right? It's low calorie and has the things in it I might be low on. The other 1.5 gallons those days are water.
3. SLEEP. RIGHT NOW. THEN SLEEP AGAIN. Sleep is where you rebuild and build up. Take a nap. I've been amazed at how much less sore I am after a 1-hour midday nap when taken at my body's demand.
These get me back in the saddle (on the saddle?) and, when I ignore them, I stay down longer.
When I have a ride that feels like you describe, I take 1-3 days off and I obey these three rules:
1. EAT. EAT ALL THE THINGS. Carbs, double protein, whatever sounds good. No junk, though! You want carbs, go ahead and have them, but make sure they come from things you'd feed people you love. Nothing with a wrapper or ingredients you can't pronounce. Besides, if you're going to hit the cheesecake, why would you save a couple bucks and douse yourself in guar gum and yellow #5 ?
2. DRINK. DRINK. DRINK. I use Ultima for my on-bike hydration and on those "uh-oh" days, I down half a gallon as well. Can't hurt, right? It's low calorie and has the things in it I might be low on. The other 1.5 gallons those days are water.
3. SLEEP. RIGHT NOW. THEN SLEEP AGAIN. Sleep is where you rebuild and build up. Take a nap. I've been amazed at how much less sore I am after a 1-hour midday nap when taken at my body's demand.
These get me back in the saddle (on the saddle?) and, when I ignore them, I stay down longer.
#29
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Food is important, especially what you eat and when. I cycle poorly if I eat a lot before riding. I cycle even worse if I eat crap the night before.
Drinking a lot of water, especially on hot days, is absolutely critical. Yesterday, I drank a quart before and during my morning commute, three quarts at work and another quart and a half on the way home. I've already downed two quarts this morning. Like I said, definitely drink enough water.
Sleep. Man, years back sleep did not matter. I could party until 4 AM and be up and ready to ride at 8. Nowadays, if I'm not in bed before 11PM, I know I will be hurting on my rides the next day.
Drinking a lot of water, especially on hot days, is absolutely critical. Yesterday, I drank a quart before and during my morning commute, three quarts at work and another quart and a half on the way home. I've already downed two quarts this morning. Like I said, definitely drink enough water.
Sleep. Man, years back sleep did not matter. I could party until 4 AM and be up and ready to ride at 8. Nowadays, if I'm not in bed before 11PM, I know I will be hurting on my rides the next day.
#30
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Wayyy to high a cadence... think KNEES ........long term. Mid 60's to 70.. plenty. Consistent ticker levels comfortable for you.. 100ish plus.. depends on you.
Being on the 'straight and narrow' then jumping off got your insulin levels UP. Your added/back to BLOAT.. meaning your body wants to go back to storage mode. Holding water, salt... graving SUGAR.
Do you supplement with magnesium or ? others?
Relax... get back into your routine. Have a sense of humor.. the body/mind rules.. knows what it wants.. the easy FAT life. Just.. move on and forward.
You'll be fine.
Being on the 'straight and narrow' then jumping off got your insulin levels UP. Your added/back to BLOAT.. meaning your body wants to go back to storage mode. Holding water, salt... graving SUGAR.
Do you supplement with magnesium or ? others?
Relax... get back into your routine. Have a sense of humor.. the body/mind rules.. knows what it wants.. the easy FAT life. Just.. move on and forward.
You'll be fine.
#31
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90-100 is fine.
Lower at an easy recovery pace or climbing with reduced inertial load, higher with added intensity to recruit more muscle fibers and limit fatigue.
They do better with lower forces which dictates higher cadence at a given power output.
Not for endurance at higher power levels. As an extreme example _Training and Racing with a Power Meter_ tells the tale of a racer who got dropped every time after spending 5 minutes at his one hour power but under 70 RPM.
Sprinting also calls for about 120 RPM for maximum power.
Grabbing a few representative samples from my data:
[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]Intensity[/TD]
[TD]Duration[/TD]
[TD]Time Riding[/TD]
[TD]Distance (miles)[/TD]
[TD]Work (kJ)[/TD]
[TD]Average Power (watts)[/TD]
[TD]xPower (watts)[/TD]
[TD]Max Power (watts)[/TD]
[TD]Average Heart Rate (bpm)[/TD]
[TD]95% Heartrate (bpm)[/TD]
[TD]Average Cadence (rpm)[/TD]
[TD]Average Speed (mph)[/TD]
[TD]Elevation Gain (feet)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #efefef"]
[TD="align: center"]active recovery[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1:59:09[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1:55:15[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]26.6[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]595[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]83[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]90[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]474[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]96[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]108[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]82[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]13.9[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]139[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]endurance[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3:48:26[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3:42:17[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]60.9[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1813[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]132[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]139[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]646[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]126[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]137[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]91[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]16.5[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1129[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #efefef"]
[TD="align: center"]threshold[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1:00:02[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1:00:02[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20.4[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]743[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]206[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]207[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]615[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]159[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]164[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]92[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20.4[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]129[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]long VO2max[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10:03[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10:03[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3.6[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]146[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]242[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]236[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]588[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]171[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]179[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]95[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]21.3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]33[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
although averages don't tell the whole story, especially at higher intensities with higher cadences where things like acceleration pull down the average more:
Threshold histogram:
Lower at an easy recovery pace or climbing with reduced inertial load, higher with added intensity to recruit more muscle fibers and limit fatigue.
think KNEES ........
long term. Mid 60's to 70.. plenty.
Sprinting also calls for about 120 RPM for maximum power.
Grabbing a few representative samples from my data:
[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]Intensity[/TD]
[TD]Duration[/TD]
[TD]Time Riding[/TD]
[TD]Distance (miles)[/TD]
[TD]Work (kJ)[/TD]
[TD]Average Power (watts)[/TD]
[TD]xPower (watts)[/TD]
[TD]Max Power (watts)[/TD]
[TD]Average Heart Rate (bpm)[/TD]
[TD]95% Heartrate (bpm)[/TD]
[TD]Average Cadence (rpm)[/TD]
[TD]Average Speed (mph)[/TD]
[TD]Elevation Gain (feet)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #efefef"]
[TD="align: center"]active recovery[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1:59:09[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1:55:15[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]26.6[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]595[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]83[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]90[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]474[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]96[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]108[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]82[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]13.9[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]139[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]endurance[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3:48:26[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3:42:17[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]60.9[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1813[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]132[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]139[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]646[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]126[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]137[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]91[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]16.5[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1129[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #efefef"]
[TD="align: center"]threshold[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1:00:02[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1:00:02[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20.4[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]743[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]206[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]207[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]615[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]159[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]164[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]92[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20.4[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]129[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]long VO2max[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10:03[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10:03[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3.6[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]146[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]242[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]236[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]588[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]171[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]179[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]95[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]21.3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]33[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
although averages don't tell the whole story, especially at higher intensities with higher cadences where things like acceleration pull down the average more:
Threshold histogram:
Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 07-30-15 at 03:28 PM.
#32
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I'm certainly no expert on training and fitness, but I'm old enough and had enough physical problems to know that your body talks to you, you need to listen. First, I'd cut back for awhile. Muscles, ligaments etc need time to rest, recuperation and recover, and build. If you don't give it time to do this, you'll suffer. Second, I'd check your diet to see if you getting all the nutrients you need, especially basic stuff like carbs, salt, potassium. If you don't know, you can die from too much or too little potassium. IT can cause major heart problems. If that doesn't do it in a week or two, I'd see a DR.
Finally, hows the stress level in your life. Work, a new baby, and training may be more than you can handle at one time. Losing the weight is not an emergency situation.
Finally, hows the stress level in your life. Work, a new baby, and training may be more than you can handle at one time. Losing the weight is not an emergency situation.
#33
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You have a full plate my friend. Congratulations on your newest family member!
I suggest taking it easy (you read that right), you may be over stressing your body although you may not think so. Go for a few light rides, just focus on relaxing and having fun, forget the numbers. Your body has to deal with the mental stress of all you have going. Give your brain a chance to relax, it's working over time!
- when I was into weight lifting I would always take Sundays off as a rest day. I would do 2 days a week for each muscle group, that gave my body enough time to properly recover and doing 2 days still kept my body building muscle.
Clean up your earing. You know this, I know this. You just need to buckle down and commit to it. Not only will your performance improve on the bike but also off the bike (more energy for chasing kids, running errands and dealing with everything else life entails).
Your body is your engine. If you want full octane performance you need a full octane, high grade fuel. In this case that means eating high quality foods. This doesn't mean give up everything you enjoy but pick one day a week to treat yourself. One beer, one steak or even one snack of sweets. There are plenty of healthy and natural solutions such as blueberries, mangos, nuts, etc.
Lastly, find some "You" time. Personal time. Who cares what you do, just don't let it involve a screen or keyboard. Read a book, meditate, go for a short walk. Bikes are great but too much can start to feel like work instead of play. This way when you get on your bike you don't feel like it's the only time you have to enjoy and you aren't mentally stressed. More important you aren't jamming gears and using improper techniques just to get it done and over with.
Hope this helps.
Happy, safe riding!
I suggest taking it easy (you read that right), you may be over stressing your body although you may not think so. Go for a few light rides, just focus on relaxing and having fun, forget the numbers. Your body has to deal with the mental stress of all you have going. Give your brain a chance to relax, it's working over time!
- when I was into weight lifting I would always take Sundays off as a rest day. I would do 2 days a week for each muscle group, that gave my body enough time to properly recover and doing 2 days still kept my body building muscle.
Clean up your earing. You know this, I know this. You just need to buckle down and commit to it. Not only will your performance improve on the bike but also off the bike (more energy for chasing kids, running errands and dealing with everything else life entails).
Your body is your engine. If you want full octane performance you need a full octane, high grade fuel. In this case that means eating high quality foods. This doesn't mean give up everything you enjoy but pick one day a week to treat yourself. One beer, one steak or even one snack of sweets. There are plenty of healthy and natural solutions such as blueberries, mangos, nuts, etc.
Lastly, find some "You" time. Personal time. Who cares what you do, just don't let it involve a screen or keyboard. Read a book, meditate, go for a short walk. Bikes are great but too much can start to feel like work instead of play. This way when you get on your bike you don't feel like it's the only time you have to enjoy and you aren't mentally stressed. More important you aren't jamming gears and using improper techniques just to get it done and over with.
Hope this helps.
Happy, safe riding!
#34
Senior Member
Try throwing a wrench in the works: reset expectations by starting out early some morning to do a 70 mile daytrip...
#35
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sounds like good case over training.
Commute should be the easiest part of the rides you want to do. treat them as maintenance miles
Intervals should be 1-3 times a week outside of commute rides.
But for now, take a week off, if you must commute shift 3 gears easier than you normally would on ever part of the commute. Just spin w/o mashing or effort. You will only be a few mins slower than normal on those 10 miles. For me, when I stack miles, I ride for 5 weeks, take 1 off. I can avoid burnout and over training this way.
Commute should be the easiest part of the rides you want to do. treat them as maintenance miles
Intervals should be 1-3 times a week outside of commute rides.
But for now, take a week off, if you must commute shift 3 gears easier than you normally would on ever part of the commute. Just spin w/o mashing or effort. You will only be a few mins slower than normal on those 10 miles. For me, when I stack miles, I ride for 5 weeks, take 1 off. I can avoid burnout and over training this way.
#36
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90-100 is fine.
Lower at an easy recovery pace or climbing with reduced inertial load, higher with added intensity to recruit more muscle fibers and limit fatigue.
They do better with lower forces which dictates higher cadence at a given power output.
Not for endurance at higher power levels. As an extreme example _Training and Racing with a Power Meter_ tells the tale of a racer who got dropped every time after spending 5 minutes at his one hour power but under 70 RPM.
Sprinting also calls for about 120 RPM for maximum power.
Grabbing a few representative samples from my data:
[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]Intensity[/TD]
[TD]Duration[/TD]
[TD]Time Riding[/TD]
[TD]Distance (miles)[/TD]
[TD]Work (kJ)[/TD]
[TD]Average Power (watts)[/TD]
[TD]xPower (watts)[/TD]
[TD]Max Power (watts)[/TD]
[TD]Average Heart Rate (bpm)[/TD]
[TD]95% Heartrate (bpm)[/TD]
[TD]Average Cadence (rpm)[/TD]
[TD]Average Speed (mph)[/TD]
[TD]Elevation Gain (feet)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #efefef"]
[TD="align: center"]active recovery[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1:59:09[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1:55:15[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]26.6[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]595[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]83[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]90[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]474[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]96[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]108[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]82[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]13.9[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]139[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]endurance[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3:48:26[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3:42:17[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]60.9[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1813[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]132[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]139[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]646[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]126[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]137[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]91[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]16.5[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1129[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #efefef"]
[TD="align: center"]threshold[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1:00:02[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1:00:02[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20.4[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]743[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]206[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]207[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]615[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]159[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]164[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]92[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20.4[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]129[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]long VO2max[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10:03[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10:03[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3.6[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]146[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]242[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]236[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]588[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]171[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]179[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]95[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]21.3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]33[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
although averages don't tell the whole story, especially at higher intensities with higher cadences where things like acceleration pull down the average more:
Threshold histogram:
Lower at an easy recovery pace or climbing with reduced inertial load, higher with added intensity to recruit more muscle fibers and limit fatigue.
They do better with lower forces which dictates higher cadence at a given power output.
Not for endurance at higher power levels. As an extreme example _Training and Racing with a Power Meter_ tells the tale of a racer who got dropped every time after spending 5 minutes at his one hour power but under 70 RPM.
Sprinting also calls for about 120 RPM for maximum power.
Grabbing a few representative samples from my data:
[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]Intensity[/TD]
[TD]Duration[/TD]
[TD]Time Riding[/TD]
[TD]Distance (miles)[/TD]
[TD]Work (kJ)[/TD]
[TD]Average Power (watts)[/TD]
[TD]xPower (watts)[/TD]
[TD]Max Power (watts)[/TD]
[TD]Average Heart Rate (bpm)[/TD]
[TD]95% Heartrate (bpm)[/TD]
[TD]Average Cadence (rpm)[/TD]
[TD]Average Speed (mph)[/TD]
[TD]Elevation Gain (feet)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #efefef"]
[TD="align: center"]active recovery[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1:59:09[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1:55:15[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]26.6[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]595[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]83[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]90[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]474[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]96[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]108[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]82[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]13.9[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]139[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]endurance[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3:48:26[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3:42:17[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]60.9[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1813[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]132[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]139[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]646[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]126[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]137[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]91[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]16.5[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1129[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #efefef"]
[TD="align: center"]threshold[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1:00:02[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1:00:02[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20.4[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]743[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]206[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]207[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]615[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]159[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]164[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]92[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20.4[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]129[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]long VO2max[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10:03[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10:03[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3.6[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]146[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]242[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]236[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]588[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]171[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]179[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]95[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]21.3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]33[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
although averages don't tell the whole story, especially at higher intensities with higher cadences where things like acceleration pull down the average more:
Threshold histogram:
I do not see people riding a bike for a living employing high continuous cadences.. sez it all.
Bikes... most of them have gear selectors... which then are used to find the 'spot' of exertion comfort for the rider. Heart rate & expiration rate are easily monitored sans electronic nonsense.. calorie calc's are more foolish male cow dung. Who cares.. your getting fitter... maintaining.. if some charts and numbers get it done for some.. fine. But the reality is usually somewhat different.