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-   -   Weight loss for clydesales with minimal fat (https://www.bikeforums.net/clydesdales-athenas-200-lb-91-kg/1038325-weight-loss-clydesales-minimal-fat.html)

Buffalo Buff 11-14-15 10:53 AM

Weight loss for clydesales with minimal fat
 
I'm 6'4 and I've been athletic my entire life.

Before I got into road biking I was into weightlifting, so I was pretty heavy. I was around 225lbs at my peak, with a body fat % of around 11-12%. I've never been above 15% BF at any point in my life.

Since road biking has become a bigger passion than weightlifting, I've been wanting to lose weight. I'm just not sure about how to do this while staying healthy and active, because I've never had a reason to try to lose weight.

I've stopped weightlifting, and do rock climbing instead for my upper body. I enjoy it more and it results in less overall mass, while still burning calories.

Cycle daily.

I'm reducing my overall caloric intake, shooting for 200-400 under maintenance, but cheating on days where I do a lot of physical activity. I just know from experience I feel like crap after a day of heavy activity if I under eat.

Any advice is welcome. I was down to 203 after my last tour, now I'm about 208, currently shooting for the 185-190lb range.

arex 11-14-15 12:00 PM

If you're already pretty fit, why would you want to actively lose weight?

Not a expert, but I think that if you continue to ride heavily, your body will eventually normalize down to whatever weight it needs to be at for the exercise you're making it do. I wouldn't sweat it.

10 Wheels 11-14-15 12:05 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Wiggins 2012

6-4 160 lbs

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=488053

Zweivoss 11-14-15 12:33 PM

Amputate.
Yes, I know, I'm brilliant. No need to thank me.

Buffalo Buff 11-14-15 12:48 PM


Originally Posted by arex (Post 18318935)
If you're already pretty fit, why would you want to actively lose weight?

Not a expert, but I think that if you continue to ride heavily, your body will eventually normalize down to whatever weight it needs to be at for the exercise you're making it do. I wouldn't sweat it.

I hover around 210 if I ride when I want, eat what I feel like eating, and don't do much else in the way of exercise. I feel in shape at that weight, but when I look at pro bike riders I'm no where near their weight. Granted I don't have aspirations to be pro, but I want to be as fast as I can on my bike.

https://www.******.com/r/peloton/comments/3c2s1k/who_are_the_largest_riders_in_the_peloton/


EDIT: Seriously? ****** is blocked out? Well, you can copy and paste the URL and replace the stars with R E D D I T with no spaces if you care enough.

dr_lha 11-15-15 04:09 PM


Originally Posted by Zweivoss (Post 18318993)
Amputate.
Yes, I know, I'm brilliant. No need to thank me.

Agreed. If you go with a head amputation that'll get you sub 200lb easily.

DrIsotope 11-15-15 04:32 PM

With the pros, it's not about losing weight, it's about reducing mass-- look at that picture of Wiggins-- he's just lean muscle and bones. Upper body strength is of little use on the bike, really. All the Tour guys have spindly arms, because they're trying to keep their mass down. Magnus Backstadt is the biggest guy to have competed in the TdF, 6'4" and 207lbs-- so it can certainly be done. But I can attest that taking on hills at 187lbs is a completely different experience than at 207lbs. I got there through more and more miles.

The only thing that has consistently worked for me (unfortunately for my somewhat lazy nature) is to increase the amount of exercise and force my body to adapt to it. 15-20 mile rides a few days a week do not cut it anymore, unless I'm forcing those rides into Z4/Z5 sufferfests. And even then I have to have 30-40 mile "recovery" rides in between. I'd rather just ride more miles and not worry so much about the measured effort. So if you're already fit, you have to take it up another level of effort or intensity.

Buffalo Buff 11-15-15 05:19 PM


Originally Posted by DrIsotope (Post 18321314)
But I can attest that taking on hills at 187lbs is a completely different experience than at 207lbs..

Glad to hear confirmation. That's exactly what I'm hoping for.

Zweivoss 11-16-15 01:38 AM

See? Even the good Doctor agrees with me.

brawlo 11-16-15 09:30 PM

Have you looked at intermittent fasting in its various forms. I took on the 5/2 diet last year and lost 10kg in 10 weeks. It's a wellness diet rather than a weight reduction diet, although I still had good success at the weight loss aspect. I got lazy and have put the 10kg back on progressively over the past year, although some in muscle mass (my legs are bigger this year than at the same time last year). Back on track - the 5/2 option is aimed at the visceral fat in your body, that being the fat within your body like around your organs. Last year, I got lighter and stronger and faster in doing the diet. I could still work out on a fast day, just not with full intensity. I would have to drop a big weight exercise from my lifting, so do 1 big lift instead of 2.

Another option with IF is what I seem to read a lot of body builders doing which is condensing your eating to an 8 hour window for the day while still watching your calories. I know of a masters sprinter who uses this sort of principle and he's one of the fastest in the world in his age group and 6'4" too! It won't slow you down!

brawlo 11-18-15 02:25 PM

Intermittent Fasting Methods | What Is The Best Diet Plan For You? - The Zone

TacomaSailor 11-28-15 01:21 AM

I started running, riding, and weight lifting in my late teens and continued very seriously for the next 40-years. I also kept pretty detailed records about food, exercise, and weight. My overall experience was that my weight found it's natural level and stayed there IF I managed my caloric intake at a comfortable level. I found that I felt best at 185# but could easily balloon to 210# when I made a significant reduction in my exercise or allowed my wife to bake too many cookies and cakes. A couple months of extra exercise and moderation of my diet would get me right back to where I felt best.

My BMI was always in the obese range while I was in super shape and could compete in almost any sport with anyone I knew. I felt good, fast, and loose so I just stayed at those "obese" weights. A climber friend was long and very lean, his BMI was in the anorexic range. He went up vertical walls like a spider and could run like a deer. But, he could not carry the gear on a two day approach march nor could he push a big gear like I could.

I am not quite as tall as you but built pretty solid (measured BF at about 10% at 180#). I did a lot of weight work and also ran, pretty fast, a lot as well as riding a bike hundreds of miles a week. I was also a serious rock climber and expedition climber. I found that I did not have to work at losing weight - it just came off naturally as I increased my exercise and would stabilize at the proper level.

I guess my point is - balance your caloric intake to your work level and let your body tell you what is right. While I was climbing all the time I was also a high level competitive racquetball player. A difference of a few pounds was quite noticeable when on the court with another top level player. But, I found that another hour a week of RB, running, riding, or a combination would adjust the weight as needed. Or, a few less beers each week would drop a couple pounds a month.

I suggest you let your body and how you feel while exercising hard determine your best weight.

The BAD news is that when I hit the early 60s (age) the whole scheme went to hell. I could no longer easily drop the pounds, no matter how much I exercised or cut my calories. I found I had to dramatically cut my calories and move to very long and lower intensive rides just to keep my weight at 215 - or about 30-pounds above my "optimum" level. It has been 5 - or 6 years since my body betrayed me and I am now resigned to not being the lean mean runner/rider I was at age 50.

OH Well!

Null66 12-01-15 01:10 PM


Originally Posted by brawlo (Post 18324407)
Have you looked at intermittent fasting in its various forms. I took on the 5/2 diet last year and lost 10kg in 10 weeks. It's a wellness diet rather than a weight reduction diet, although I still had good success at the weight loss aspect. I got lazy and have put the 10kg back on progressively over the past year, although some in muscle mass (my legs are bigger this year than at the same time last year). Back on track - the 5/2 option is aimed at the visceral fat in your body, that being the fat within your body like around your organs. Last year, I got lighter and stronger and faster in doing the diet. I could still work out on a fast day, just not with full intensity. I would have to drop a big weight exercise from my lifting, so do 1 big lift instead of 2.

Did you happen to notice if this was as effective regarding Blood Pressure as it was with body comp?

Another option with IF is what I seem to read a lot of body builders doing which is condensing your eating to an 8 hour window for the day while still watching your calories. I know of a masters sprinter who uses this sort of principle and he's one of the fastest in the world in his age group and 6'4" too! It won't slow you down!

What you guys have achieved is exactly where I need to go. BP is to high, don't respond to low sodium (not even w/ elevated potassium), don't tolerate the meds (every class did something bad to me (1 the negative still hasn't totally subsided after a year))... I'm naturally heavy, and dense so just can't see myself at <210...

SO please, please post at length...

brawlo 12-01-15 07:14 PM


Originally Posted by Null66 (Post 18357815)
What you guys have achieved is exactly where I need to go. BP is to high, don't respond to low sodium (not even w/ elevated potassium), don't tolerate the meds (every class did something bad to me (1 the negative still hasn't totally subsided after a year))... I'm naturally heavy, and dense so just can't see myself at <210...

SO please, please post at length...

I'm not sure if the IF had any effect on my BP. Last time I had that done was about this same time last year, and it was fine. I can't remember the exact figures, as I've never had to worry about BP before, so haven't paid particular attention to it.

I am quite active, especially as the warmer weather rolls around. I race both road and track bikes, so once the summer season kicks in, I will be doing 4-5 days on the bike at a relatively high intensity, although relatively short sessions. I don't like to just sit in and enjoy the scenery. I like to race and push myself. Many years ago, I came to the realisation that competition is what I need to keep me from turning into a balloon. After retiring from rugby union (relatively young at 25 but due to injury) and heavy weightlifting before that, I struggled to cope with just being fit for the sake of being fit. After a few years, I found cycling and more to the point, racing, and it's what keeps me motivated to stay fit. I'm also active outside of sports, running a farm, and an indoor/outdoor work life. Despite being overweight, I've never been inactive. I'm on the young end of things at 37 (about to hit 38) and 6'5" and 120kg, but I think my active lifestyle has been the main reason I've avoided diabetes and high BP, because damn I've been a bad boy over the years with diet!

Even though I'm uneducated on BP, I have heard enough to believe that lifestyle plays a big part (but of course there are genetic factors that can contribute as well). I would guess you need to get more active, eat better, and de-stress. Over the last few years I've made big inroads to improving my diet. Primarily I stay away from processed foods, keeping an eat clean kind of approach. Portion size is my biggest issue now! On the stress side of things, I don't let many things get to me. I don't hold onto negativity, and don't bother worrying about anything that I can't influence.

Over the last week, I've been trying out the 8hr IF and haven't liked it. I found it a lot easier to do the 5/2 thing, and so I'll switch back to that. Besides, the 5/2 has a lot of sciency medical stuff behind it if you read the info and watch Michael Mosley's doco.

Null66 12-08-15 12:04 PM


Originally Posted by brawlo (Post 18358822)
I'm not sure if the IF had any effect on my BP. Last time I had that done was about this same time last year, and it was fine. I can't remember the exact figures, as I've never had to worry about BP before, so haven't paid particular attention to it.

I am quite active, especially as the warmer weather rolls around. I race both road and track bikes, so once the summer season kicks in, I will be doing 4-5 days on the bike at a relatively high intensity, although relatively short sessions. I don't like to just sit in and enjoy the scenery. I like to race and push myself. Many years ago, I came to the realisation that competition is what I need to keep me from turning into a balloon. After retiring from rugby union (relatively young at 25 but due to injury) and heavy weightlifting before that, I struggled to cope with just being fit for the sake of being fit. After a few years, I found cycling and more to the point, racing, and it's what keeps me motivated to stay fit. I'm also active outside of sports, running a farm, and an indoor/outdoor work life. Despite being overweight, I've never been inactive. I'm on the young end of things at 37 (about to hit 38) and 6'5" and 120kg, but I think my active lifestyle has been the main reason I've avoided diabetes and high BP, because damn I've been a bad boy over the years with diet!

Even though I'm uneducated on BP, I have heard enough to believe that lifestyle plays a big part (but of course there are genetic factors that can contribute as well). I would guess you need to get more active, eat better, and de-stress. Over the last few years I've made big inroads to improving my diet. Primarily I stay away from processed foods, keeping an eat clean kind of approach. Portion size is my biggest issue now! On the stress side of things, I don't let many things get to me. I don't hold onto negativity, and don't bother worrying about anything that I can't influence.

Over the last week, I've been trying out the 8hr IF and haven't liked it. I found it a lot easier to do the 5/2 thing, and so I'll switch back to that. Besides, the 5/2 has a lot of sciency medical stuff behind it if you read the info and watch Michael Mosley's doco.


THANK YOU!

One of doc's prescriptions boils down to miles and more miles...
Will check out the Mosley referenc...

FrenchFit 12-08-15 06:48 PM


Originally Posted by Null66 (Post 18374729)
THANK YOU!

One of doc's prescriptions boils down to miles and more miles...
Will check out the Mosley referenc...

Are we talking IFing and blood pressure? I started IFing, I guess it was 3 years ago, I started running at the same time, so the results are somewhat confused. But my blood pressure dropped dramatically around this time, frankly my whole metabolism changed. To some extent my burst power output went into the negative and my available sprint effort diminished. On the other hand, my sustained energy is much higher. Going IF is probably the best decision I ever made, bad for a professional athlete perhaps but terrific for daily life. i started with Ori Hofmekler's book and evolved from there.

brawlo 12-10-15 05:04 PM

Something I might add, that was a real eye opener for me was just how you could function with just 5-600 calories in a day on the 5/2. Before I started I was literally crapping myself with how I thought my body would react with such a small calorie intake. Once I got into it and incorporated exercise on starve days, I was pleasantly surprised. I was starving on Mondays (initially Tuesdays) and Thursdays last year. I was racing road on Wednesday evenings (short 20-25km races) and track on Friday nights. I did notice a slight drop off in available energy at the end of the road racing when I was starving on the Tues, which was why I switched to Mondays. I found it didn't noticeably affect track racing as the races are fairly short.

On Mondays, my routine was a weights session, that day incorporating squats and Romanian deadlifts as the last 2 exercises. What I found was that I didn't have enough energy to punch out both heavy lifts. By only doing one of them each week, I was still able to progress with increasing the weight which was still a pleasant surprise.

Bronze Potato 12-20-15 07:30 PM


Originally Posted by Buffalo Buff (Post 18318848)
I'm 6'4 and I've been athletic my entire life.

Before I got into road biking I was into weightlifting, so I was pretty heavy. I was around 225lbs at my peak, with a body fat % of around 11-12%. I've never been above 15% BF at any point in my life.

Since road biking has become a bigger passion than weightlifting, I've been wanting to lose weight. I'm just not sure about how to do this while staying healthy and active, because I've never had a reason to try to lose weight.

I've stopped weightlifting, and do rock climbing instead for my upper body. I enjoy it more and it results in less overall mass, while still burning calories.

Cycle daily.

I'm reducing my overall caloric intake, shooting for 200-400 under maintenance, but cheating on days where I do a lot of physical activity. I just know from experience I feel like crap after a day of heavy activity if I under eat.

Any advice is welcome. I was down to 203 after my last tour, now I'm about 208, currently shooting for the 185-190lb range.

I say don't do it man.

I was like you, big/fit (but taller/heavier] and wanted to loose as much weight as I could to make myself a competitive cyclist. No matter how much muscle you sacrifice you'll never climb or do repeated accelerations with the <160 crowd. My epiphany was realizing that I could do 100 mile training rides with 10,000' of climbing but had sacrificed healthy overall functional strength in pursuit of a goal I could never reach (racing with people weighing >20 less).

You life you body but I'd do your best without getting extreme about it because "we" just aren't built for it.

ColaJacket 12-22-15 11:03 AM


Originally Posted by Bronze Potato (Post 18403734)
I say don't do it man.

I was like you, big/fit (but taller/heavier] and wanted to loose as much weight as I could to make myself a competitive cyclist. No matter how much muscle you sacrifice you'll never climb or do repeated accelerations with the <160 crowd. My epiphany was realizing that I could do 100 mile training rides with 10,000' of climbing but had sacrificed healthy overall functional strength in pursuit of a goal I could never reach (racing with people weighing >20 less).

You life you body but I'd do your best without getting extreme about it because "we" just aren't built for it.

I agree.

To the OP, don't sacrifice overall health and fitness to become better at a hobby. Train to get better at what you're weak at. Maybe try to find a velodrome or flat track for the cycling, where the extra muscle mass won't hurt you if you decide to race, and it may actually help you.

To me, while some of the Pros are incredible, if you see them shirtless, you'd say that they didn't look healthy. If you've got <12% body fat, then don't try to actively lose weight.

Now, if there is a possibility that you can make money cycling, and you need to lose muscle mass to do that, then it might be worth considering. Maybe.

GH

FBinNY 12-22-15 11:08 AM

It's going to be hard because you're basically talking about shedding some muscle mass.

The best thing I can suggest is to focus on riding gears to the low side and maintaining high cadence. This will encourage changes favoring speed vs. strength, and eventually ---- VERY eventually ---- you might see some transformation from bulk to more wiriness in your legs. But don't expect miracles because this is a long slow process, and if there are hills in your area, might be impossible.

I'd stop sweating my size and weight, and focus on riding better/faster if that's what you want, and enjoy myself, and let my body do what it will.

colnago62 12-23-15 10:25 AM

Some years ago, I needed to do summer school at a university on the other side of the state which put me 300 miles away from the velodrome. That summer, I did more of a road program of 50-60 miles a day and road racing. I got dumped on every hill, even though I went from 220 to 178 lbs. When I got back to the velodrome, I got my butt handed to me. Losing all that muscle killed my sprint. You are who you are. If you have predominantly fast twitch muscles, you will always be limited to some extent on your ability to climb with the smaller riders.

RomansFiveEight 12-23-15 01:01 PM

Something that has worked for me on the food front (cheating when heavy working out, as you mentioned) has been this;

After 30 minutes or more of activity, one snack. And one snack every hour after that.

That 'snack' is something high in protein and carbs and other good fats and sugars. Like a banana, peanut-butter and banana half-sandwhich with honey, a cliff bar, etc. Something like that. Keeps my energy up, and I keep losing so that much mean I'm not overeating by doing it.

Buffalo Buff 12-28-15 09:09 PM

Well this is ironic. I had just decided, **** losing weight, I'm gonna powerlift again and put that muscle mass back on.

Next day after my first day back in the gym, I caught some kind of virus. Been losing over a pound a day since then, and I'm the lightest I've been since high school. Just about to dip under 200.

ypsetihw 01-11-16 10:32 AM

I'm in a similar boat, I'm 6' at 210 right now (been bulking and lifting for the last couple months) and hovering in the low 20-22% BF range right now. I do NOT have a cyclist physique (broad shoulders, strong neck and back, large bone structure) and I've had training buddies in the past who told me I should really considering getting more into heavy weight training because of my build. At the peak of my cycling fitness in summer I was just about 190. Talking to my doctor and doing caliper calculations on myself, my leanest possible weight without losing any muscle mass/power would be 180-5 or so, and that would be at BF %s I don't think I could maintain.

I did a hilly cat 5 race last season and was absolutely SMOKED within the first 3 miles by these tiny little guys who I could break in half, but at the end of the day their power to weight ratio is just really high because they are so small. With that said, on our weekly group rides, I can sprint with the front of the pack, and I'm great at putting together a team lead out because I'm so big I create a HUGE hole in the wind for the little guys to shelter in. I just can't climb for $H1T lol. I have been advised to find a team who needs a domestique to work for the team and setup attacks or pull the group back in, and look to flat courses and crits to capitalize on my ability to create pure watts over climbing ability. That's my plan for this season . . .


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