NYSteve

I took my bike to the LBS to have my front wheel fixed, and for an overall tuneup.

When the mechanic was looking over the bike he says "You have front brakes too!" Apparently I burned through my rear brake pads. I cross posted this on Mechanics, my question for them was how long should brake pads last.

I did between 700 and 750 miles this year on my brand new schwin.

I kept thinking about it, and thinking about it, why do I brake with the rear brakes so much. I think I am scared to stop with the front in fear of going over the bars. How long did it take you to get rid of the fear of your front brake and ending up over the handle bars. Any tips you have or used that helped you get over that fear?

indyfabz

You should be more worried about skidding or not being able to stop in time from using your rear brake as the primary. The front brake has more stopping power. Unless you are locking up the front brake you are not going to go over the bars. If you do have to slam the front on in an emergency, throw your weight back, behind the saddle.

chasm54

I don't use the rear brake much, except in slippery conditions.

The front brake is far more effective at stopping you. As the bike slows your weight moves forward, increasing the traction on the front wheel and reducing that at the back. That's why it is much easier to provoke a rear-wheel skid than a front-wheel skid. As for being afraid of going over the handlebars, that's actually quite difficult to do. Your fear of it will disappear with practice.

When the road is slippery, that's when to use your rear brake - carefully - as much as or more than the front. That's simply because if you do skid, a rear-wheel skid is readily correctable whereas if the front wheel breaks away, you're down.

All this comes with practice, but do make a conscious effort to brake at the front. It'll keep you safer.

dim

I use both at the same time .... but apply more pressure on the back brake

Podagrower

I never had a fear of going over the bars when using the front brake, but it took several months of riding to train my left hand to modulate the front brakes the way my right hand knew to control the back. I always reach for the front brake first now, and add the back brake for panic stops. Probably the only time I use just the back brake is for scrubbing speed in pacelines. Regardless of whether you intend to use the front brake or not, I think everybody should practice in case you have an issue with the back brake, your hand, or brake lever (I had an issue last month with a yellow jacket inside my jersey-I had him trapped inside my jersey with my right hand, and I had to stop while rolling down a slight hill with front brake only, it could have hurt a lot if I wasn't familiar with it.)

corrado33

I don't understand the irrational fear of going over the handlebars when squeezing the front brake of a bike. The only time I can see ANYONE going over the handlebars on a bike without any external influences is when someone inexperienced is FLYING down a VERY steep hill and grabs the front brake as hard as they can (Panic stop). It's never going to happen on flat ground because most people that are inexperienced aren't going fast enough to make it happen. Seriously, it takes a good deal of EFFORT to make yourself flip over the handlebars. Simply touching the front brakes isn't going to make it happen. (Off road is a different story.)

As for the OP: I generally brake with 70-95% front 5-30% rear. In the winter on ice it's mostly 90-100% rear 0-10% front. This is on my road bike of course, mountain bike is different and requires different styles of braking.

Jarrett2

I have no idea. It's subconscious at this point.

I'm left handed, so maybe more front brake? I dunno.

I do know I like my brakes set up tight though. I have big, strong hands from genetics and years playing bass guitar so I never feel like I don't get enough stopping power with calipers.

dr_lha

I probably use the back break more, but only because I learned to brake on a British bike where the brake levers are reversed, and only noticed this fact a few months back!

cyccommute 

You other guys can start stacking the wood but here goes:

The mechanic is right that you have front brakes. You should use them. You should use them in conjunction with the rear brake. You shouldn't brake with only one brake or the other but use both. If you are braking hard and the rear wheel starts to slide (aka skid), release pressure on the front brake. When you brake, push your body back and drop your upper body down a little. And, finally, if you really want to learn how to brake, get a mountain bike and learn how to ride it.

Now the explanations. 1. Use both brakes. Lots and lots of people will tell you to use "only the front brake". I won't tell you that because their ideas are based on an incorrect premise. (I can hear the flames crackling now:roll eyes. Yes, most of your braking comes from the front brake. Yes, if you do the math, the maximum possible deceleration is achieved when the load on the rear wheel is zero but, what others either ignore or don't understand (probably the latter) is that there is more to that statement. The maximum possible deceleration before the rider goes over the handlebars is achieved when the load on the rear wheel is zero and when the bicycle/rider center of gravity is positioned directly over the front axle. If you stop to think about that for even an instant, you'll realize that this isn't a practical method of braking. While there are people who have the talent to stand the bike on it's front wheel (i.e. do a nose wheelie), it's not really a practical way of stopping the bike.

Another aspect that those advocating using "only the front brake" fail to appreciate is that up until the point where the rear wheel lifts and starts to skid, the rear wheel is providing some fraction of deceleration. It takes time for a bike under deceleration to lift the rear wheel. If you aren't using the rear brake, you are throwing away about 20% of you deceleration. In a normal riding position, when you apply the brakes the whole bike experiences about 0.5g (half the deceleration due to gravity or 4.9m/s^2). About 0.1g of that deceleration is contributed by the rear wheel. The contribution decreases as the weight is transferred to the front wheel but until the rear wheel loses contact with the ground, there is still some contribution from the rear wheel. You might as well use it.

That brings us to a skidding rear tire. Many people fear a skid but the fear it for the wrong reasons. Yes, if the rear wheel skids, the rear of the bike can start to move from side to side. You are losing control of the bike at that point. However, you can use the skid to your advantage if you know what the skid is telling you. A skidding tire is one that has lost most of it's contact with the ground. This means that your weight has shifted completely from rear of the bike to the front of the bike. You are now in danger of continuing the weight shift to the point where you'll find your weight over the front axle. You are starting the transition from stopping to falling. You've also turned your bicycle into a unicycle...a really bad unicycle!

If you only use your front brake, you won't know that your rear wheel has lost contact because the rear wheel never skids. If you use both brakes and your rear wheel starts to slide, release (or decrease) the pressure on the front brake. Since the front is providing most of the deceleration, this will cause your weight to settle rearward and put the rear wheel back on the ground. You'll lose a tiny amount of deceleration but you'll regain control of the bicycle. Use the skid as an indicator of just how far you can go in terms of braking before you are headed over the bars.

If you are still with me, remember that 0.5g deceleration, I was talking about above? You can greatly increase that with body position. To be technical, you are moving the bicycle/rider's center of gravity (CG). If you move the CG back about 4" and down about 2", you increase the deceleration before the rider is thrown over the bars from 0.5g to 0.9g. You can get more out of your brakes by pushing back from the bars and squatting down over the back of the bike. It's a trick that mountain bike riders learn very quickly...at least the ones who still have teeth:roll eyes: Take a look at this picture. The rider is in a more extreme situation then you'll experience on the road but you can see that he is pushed back behind the saddle. He is keeping the rear wheel in contact with the ground and keeping his weight from being thrown forward. Also notice that his feet are parallel to the surface he is on. Here's an off road rider in a more "normal" condition.



You can see that her feet are parallel to the ground and she is pushed back just a little. The hill isn't that steep but she's prepared for a stop that could still throw her over the bars. Even road riders should push back off the saddle...maybe not as extremely as the guy in the link but even a small change in CG will increase your deceleration.

Mountain biking teaches you all this stuff very quickly. Road riding doesn't really ever teach you how to use a skid to tell you when you are losing control nor how to get the most out of your brakes in hairy situations. You don't have to do extreme stuff like the guy in the link, however. Even easy mountain biking will teach you all kinds of things about bicycle handling that makes riding on pavement a breeze.

Finally, I would suggest you go practice. Try moving back and down on the bike as you brake and see what a difference it makes. If you start feeling comfortable with the brakes, try moving forward and actually causing the rear tire to skid. It's a good idea to know how to handle the bike in controlled situations than try to learn how to handle the bike in uncontrolled situations. Good luck.

jsigone

usually stock brake pads are hard and suck,

Replace them w/ some pads from the LBS. If you ride in weather or dirt, you will wear them faster. If you hold the brakes on decents, they will wear out allot faster.

As far as fear of superman? go practice at the park or something where you can try to find the balance of going over the bars. General riding shouldn't throw you over the bars, if someone fell in front of you and you grabbed a hand full of brakes, you better be moving your but way back off the saddle to prevent superman. Id guess 75% of the stopping power is dont from he front brakes. Rears just scrub speed.

chasm54

@cyccommute No need for wood-stacking. All that is true, and good advice. But in all that information about how to handle the bike, your most important message is in danger of being obscured, namely that it is the front brake that provides most of your stopping power. And you're addressing an OP who doesn't use his front brake at all.

Use both brakes, yes. But don't brake more at the rear than the front unless the conditions are such that you have real reason to fear a front wheel skid. I know you know this, but it's an important message for those who use the rear brake mainly or exclusively, because in an emergency they aren't going to stop quickly enough unless they change their practice.

cyccommute 

I've been riding bikes for a very long time and, to be honest, I don't think about how much pressure I put on either brake lever, especially in a panic situation. I do think about what to do when the rear wheel skids. As long as the bicyclist remembers to release the front brake when the bike starts to skid, that covers about 99.9% of the situations for using brakes. Even when doing something stupid like riding on ice and snow, I can recover from a small front wheel slide if I remember to release the front brake.

In practice, I usually release both brakes and then get back on them while shifting my weight further rearward. This is largely due to how quickly things happen during a panic stop. I find that I just don't have the time to think about which brake is being pulled how much. Even in normal stopping situations, I don't think too much about which brake is being pulled how much. I pull on both levers, slide rearward and the bike stops.

79pmooney

cyccommuter is right on. But, OP, practice using that front brake. Practice it a lot. Get to know it really well.

Because the day will come when only a hard, hard stop is going to prevent that accident you really don't want. And you will only make that stop grabbing a fistful of front brake. (cc is right on about also using the rear to monitor the skidding, but that front brake will be the difference between the smile you love and one that is a painful reminder.)

Ben

mrodgers

I usually brake like this...



But seriously....

Not even off-road so much. Where I lived up until now and where I started 2.5 years ago, you hardly see any sky. Every road is tree covered. That puts a lot of shadow from the trees on the road. In lower sun in the early mornings or later evenings and winter time, there can be a strobe light effect when going down the road flashing from shadow to sun to shadow to sun from the long tree shadows. It can be very difficult to see the road conditions. I was cruising along at a moderate pace on a slight downhill when I went to hit my brakes. At the moment I hit my front brake, my front tire entered a hole in the road surface that I could not see. I didn't go over but I did feel my weight lift off and the rear tire start to lift. It made me very careful from then on when I went to hit the brakes.

corrado33

[/Quote]

Let me reiterate.

Albino Wino

I wouldn't exactly recommend it, but I had a bike with some chainstay-mounted u-brakes that may as well have been nothing riding in rain every day on the Olympic Peninsula. What can I say, having basically no rear brake will definitely get you more comfortable using the front.

CrippledKonaBoy

Used to work at a big-box store, building and selling their crap. Many times, I'd walk up on a co-worker TRYING to explain the bikes to customers, and ENDLESSLY heard two things:

1.) Use the BMX pegs to carry friends around on your bike.
2.) Don't use the front brake, you'll flip over.

Where did these idiots grow up?

OP, use both brakes, and squeeze rather than grab.

TWICE in my life, I hit the front brakes and went OTB. It was the result of a too-soft fork spring, combined with a too-large front brake disc. Fixed both problems, never happened again.

anomie

I've done it, on perfectly flat land, riding my uncle's road bike. That said, I was 12 years old and probably weighed seventy pounds soaking wet - and I was going as fast as I could and was actively trying to lock up the front wheel and skid it - the way I used to skid the back wheel on what was my bike at the time (it had coaster brakes).

Now I brake like I was taught to brake on a motorcycle - apply both brakes, smoothly. I don't really worry about trying to do x%/y% front/back as that happens at least a little bit naturally just by where weight is.

digibud

Off road is now on the road with powerful disc brakes on high end racing bikes that are fully capable of catapulting you over the handlebars. I second the earlier admonition to practice. Braking at high speed takes upper body strength and technique. Fully loaded touring will test your abilities when you are rolling down a mountain at 50mph and you have reason to brake hard. Being completely familiar with being able to use both brakes to their fullest extent is a pretty important skill. It may not be a basic skill, but it's on my check off list of abilities for anyone qualifying as an "intermediate" cyclist.

bakes1

Brake?
Drag one sneaker on the ground under 20 mph, both sneakers on the ground over 20 mph

ColaJacket

You are truly a Fred.


Fred Flintstone.

GH

Sullalto

You could do that on road bikes with rim brakes, and have been able to for decades. Road biking just isn't as exciting as MTBing, so there is less opportunity to imitate superman.

Sullalto

Where were you on the peninsula? Any riding suggestions for the Port Angeles/Sequim area? Road or MTB, might be moving up there soon.

Why are chainstay/bottom bracket mounted brakes so terrible? I always see it mentioned, but I'm not sure why.

ghostbhob

As others have said, like a motorcycle. Both at the same time, maybe a little more front than rear.

cyccommute 

You can't find a worse place to mount a brake for a several reasons. The U-brake was originally designed for mountain bikes. Placing the brake in that location is the best place to put it if you want to pack mud into the brake.

The brake also collects water and mud and debris from above and below so it becomes less effective more quickly. And all that crap thrown into the brake tends to gum up the works so that the brakes can become very sticky and need to be maintained more often.

The little fin (aka "shark's tooth") you see on the outside of the brake in the picture is there to prevent the chain from getting sucked into the brake if the bike experiences "chain suck" where the chain sticks to the ring and is pulled up from below into the chain stay. But looking at the orientation of the shark's tooth looks like it would direct the chain into the brake rather than away from it. It may have been turned around backwards during installation.

The brake is also difficult to work on because it is below the chain stay. Even in a stand the brake is difficult to adjust. You have to turn the bike completely upside down and there's not a lot of room down there. The brake is also further away from the brake lever than it is when it it on the seat stay so it's difficult to squeeze the brake lever and see what is going on at the brake. Working on one is almost a two person job.

It was a really dumb idea that, thankfully, has died an ignominious death.