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Thread: Here we go...

  1. #1
    Air
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    Destroyer of Wheels Air's Avatar
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    Here we go...

    I now have a roadbike! I'm excited and a bit scared for some reason...

    The story: My friend's old roomate left it behind. We were about the same height. It's been kept outside for the last two years, definately not ridden the last 4 months but probably not for most of the 2 years.

    I went there today and started oilin' her up. Pretty light bike (at least compared to my 44 lb mtb!).

    Specs:
    - Nishiki Sport
    - Frame: Chromoly 4130
    - Cranks: Sugino VP (only 2 - how do I find out if this is a compact double or not? Top ring is 52)
    - Wheels: Araya 27 x 1 1/4"
    - Hubs: Maillard with quick release front and rear
    - Derailleurs: Suntour SVX
    - Brakes: Dia Compe sidepulls
    - Stem: Custom
    - Saddle: Vetta
    - Brake levers: Dia Compe
    - Handlebar: Champion
    - Grips: Squishy
    - Misc: The bike has 2 water bottle cage mounts and mounts for racks and fenders though it doesn't seem like there's room for a fender.

    Pros:
    - Obviously - free is great
    - Seatpost freely moved
    - A little liquid wrench and the derailers moved easily
    - Crankset is in excellent condition - the teeth look spankin' new.
    - Spokes are in pretty decent condition - two spokes are a little rusty but some steel wool should take care of that.

    Cons:
    - Here's the big one. There is a kickstand. Seems like the kickstand was down and someone leaned against it - there's a decent sized dent on the bottom of the bottom tube leading from the bb to dropouts. However the dent doesn't seem to be in a structural place and he probably rode that way on it for a while by the looks of it. I'll include shots of that this weekend, see what y'll think.
    - A tad tall. No fist is getting from the top tube to the tackle shop, though I think if I had to jump off I wouldn't get stuck as if I was on a fence.
    - According to the man the 27's are equivalent to 630 mm. Would prefer to have 700's since it's easier to get tires/tubes for it. Doesn't look like there's enough room for them though.
    - Tires are shot. Sidewall is peeling off - I'm surprised I made it the 2 miles back! I was hoping to pick up some tires for cheap but if this is a speciality then this may start getting expensive.
    - Took the front wheel off and spun it - very crunchy. Might just be rusty bearings or could be an eaten hub; there felt like there was a lot of resistance probably in the hubs and some rubbing of the brakes.
    - Handlebars too low.
    - Cables are a bit rusty, will have to change those.

    Weird things
    - If I move the brake cables it seems like the brake engages. And my hands have to go under the cables in order to fit.

    If I'm going to put money into this I'd like it to go towards parts I can transfer. The frame has me a little worried and the 27" tires seem like they'll cause some problems.

    Again, I'll take pics this weekend and post.

    [Edit]
    The Adventures of Dialing It In Continues Here
    Rear wheel spokes rubbing against deraileur when sitting on it
    Last edited by Air; 05-14-07 at 11:38 PM.

  2. #2
    Perma-Clyde (51)'s Avatar
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    I guess you don't need a seatpost anymore
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  3. #3
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Air
    I now have a roadbike! I'm excited and a bit scared for some reason...

    The story: My friend's old roomate left it behind. We were about the same height. It's been kept outside for the last two years, definately not ridden the last 4 months but probably not for most of the 2 years.

    I went there today and started oilin' her up. Pretty light bike (at least compared to my 44 lb mtb!).

    Specs:
    - Nishiki Sport
    - Frame: Chromoly 4130
    - Cranks: Sugino VP (only 2 - how do I find out if this is a compact double or not? Top ring is 52)
    - Wheels: Araya 27 x 1 1/4"
    - Hubs: Maillard with quick release front and rear
    - Derailleurs: Suntour SVX
    - Brakes: Dia Compe sidepulls
    - Stem: Custom
    - Saddle: Vetta
    - Brake levers: Dia Compe
    - Handlebar: Champion
    - Grips: Squishy
    - Misc: The bike has 2 water bottle cage mounts and mounts for racks and fenders though it doesn't seem like there's room for a fender.

    Pros:
    - Obviously - free is great
    - Seatpost freely moved
    - A little liquid wrench and the derailers moved easily
    - Crankset is in excellent condition - the teeth look spankin' new.
    - Spokes are in pretty decent condition - two spokes are a little rusty but some steel wool should take care of that.

    Cons:
    - Here's the big one. There is a kickstand. Seems like the kickstand was down and someone leaned against it - there's a decent sized dent on the bottom of the bottom tube leading from the bb to dropouts. However the dent doesn't seem to be in a structural place and he probably rode that way on it for a while by the looks of it. I'll include shots of that this weekend, see what y'll think.
    - A tad tall. No fist is getting from the top tube to the tackle shop, though I think if I had to jump off I wouldn't get stuck as if I was on a fence.
    - According to the man the 27's are equivalent to 630 mm. Would prefer to have 700's since it's easier to get tires/tubes for it. Doesn't look like there's enough room for them though.
    - Tires are shot. Sidewall is peeling off - I'm surprised I made it the 2 miles back! I was hoping to pick up some tires for cheap but if this is a speciality then this may start getting expensive.
    - Took the front wheel off and spun it - very crunchy. Might just be rusty bearings or could be an eaten hub; there felt like there was a lot of resistance probably in the hubs and some rubbing of the brakes.
    - Handlebars too low.
    - Cables are a bit rusty, will have to change those.

    Weird things
    - If I move the brake cables it seems like the brake engages. And my hands have to go under the cables in order to fit.

    If I'm going to put money into this I'd like it to go towards parts I can transfer. The frame has me a little worried and the 27" tires seem like they'll cause some problems.

    Again, I'll take pics this weekend and post.
    Yeah, it probably weighs around 20lbs! Looking forward to seeing the pics.

    Bu the way, IRC makes a reasonable gumwall 27" tire, and surprisingly, Walmart carries a fair 27" tire from Bell that's even a folding tire, both 90 psi, and Continental makes a decent 27" 100psi tire and the Araya rims will hold them perfectly!

    AS to switching to 700c? You might need longer reach brakes because 700c is actually smaller than 27"

    See this from the thread I linked:
    Quoting Dexmax-
    dexmax

    Originally posted by shrimpx
    cycletourist, 700c wheels are 622mm in diameter. 27" wheels are 685mm. so the difference is about 63mm = 2.48 inches. So the distance between the fork ceiling and tire is about 1.2 inches greater on 700c wheels.

    i will see if i can come up with something as per the sheldon brown article, unless i find something at the LBS.

    many thanks to everyone. it's good to know that there are products out there for that.

    No, I don't think 27" = 645mm

    700C = 622mm dia
    27" = 630mm dia

    thus there is 8mm difference.. you only need to adjust your brakes/pads 4mm lower...
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

  4. #4
    Senior Member DieselDan's Avatar
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    Compact cranks have two chainrings and have a BCD of 110mm. Since compact cranks are a new thing, you don't have one. Don't fret too much over the wheels, especailly if the rims are aluminum and true. 700c tubes work in a 27" wheel, as evey 700c tube I have is label 27"x1". Tires can be more of a problem with varity, but isn't impossible. A good LBS will order them, and many stock them. You have an older brake lever design that work well enough. You can replace them with a aero lever design, the type with the cables under the bar tape. I have a set laying around.

    Older mass market road bikes had nortoriously narrow handlebars. For comfort's sake, get a saddle you like, then a wider handlebar. I highly recommend gel padding under the bar tape.
    Bikes use brakes to stop.

    If your bike has breaks, don't ride it.

  5. #5
    Senior Member mkadam68's Avatar
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    Please don't let me dampen your enthusiasm and take whatever I (or anyone else) says on these boards with a grain of salt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Air
    I now have a roadbike! I'm excited and a bit scared for some reason...
    Congratulations.

    - Cranks: Sugino VP (only 2 - how do I find out if this is a compact double or not? Top ring is 52)
    If it's a 52, probably not compact. They're usually in the 50-tooth range.

    - Brakes: Dia Compe sidepulls
    Be careful going down steep or long hills. Not exactly the strongest brake, especially for us clydes.

    - Saddle: Vetta...
    - Grips: Squishy...
    Make sure these are comfortable. Might not be good for longer rides.

    - Spokes are in pretty decent condition - two spokes are a little rusty but some steel wool should take care of that.
    I'd recommend getting a pair of new wheels. Or at least taking the old ones to your LBS for replacement of rusted spokes and truing.

    - Here's the big one. There is a kickstand. Seems like the kickstand was down and someone leaned against it - there's a decent sized dent on the bottom of the bottom tube leading from the bb to dropouts. However the dent doesn't seem to be in a structural place and he probably rode that way on it for a while by the looks of it. I'll include shots of that this weekend, see what y'll think.
    Definitely need pics. But...take it out, find a short steep hill (with no traffic), and jam on those pedals. Can you flex the frame? Bend it? Hurt it? Test those chainstays!

    - Took the front wheel off and spun it - very crunchy. Might just be rusty bearings or could be an eaten hub; there felt like there was a lot of resistance probably in the hubs and some rubbing of the brakes.
    Sounds like it needs new bearings. Hopefully the inside of the hub is still okay, or you'll need a new hub. Easy enough job if you have the tools.

    - Cables are a bit rusty, will have to change those.
    Definitely.

    - If I move the brake cables it seems like the brake engages.
    Because of the rusty cables--they've locked up on you.

    If I'm going to put money into this I'd like it to go towards parts I can transfer. The frame has me a little worried and the 27" tires seem like they'll cause some problems.
    You might want to be careful about the amount of money you do put into it. I don't think it would be worth it. Then again, if it gets you out riding... The money you spend might be better spent going toward a bike on craigslist or ebay. My two cents.

  6. #6
    Senior Member big john's Avatar
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    Before you spend any money on it , you should look around for a good used bike. Deals can be found. Rusty spokes? Any decent spoke is stainless. Check the frame for rust, especially where the dent is.

  7. #7
    Air
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    Wow, thanks all!

    Yeah - the saddle was way too narrow so that'll have to go. I did think the handlebars felt a little narrow too and now that I compare it to my mtb width they are.

    There is some rust around where that dent is - I'm running out the door so pics will be tomorrow.

    Oh man, I feel like an idiot about the 27" vs 700 tires! It was right on that page, silly me assuming 700=700mm! No more posting at 4 AM....

    I don't want to put a lot of money into this. I think I can get wider handlebars (maybe even the brakes) used at the bike co-op for cheap. Maybe there'll be some 27" tires hangin' around

    I also really like the idea of pushing that chainstay and seeing how it feels. I think the kickstand is actually giving it more stability because it's clamped (way too hard) against both chainstays right up against the bb.

    I've actually been looking at used (and I've got a few others from far away keeping their eye out too ) but haven't seen anything in my size or pricerange. Since this is probably slightly on the big side I don't think I'll stop looking if a sweet deal comes a long, and could sell this for the amount that I'll put into it.

    Thanks again all - pictures this weekend, promise!!

  8. #8
    Air
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    One more question: if the rim says 27 x 1 1/4" what's the thinnest tire I can use on it?

  9. #9
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    27X7/8....I have the same rims and I am quite happy with them. They are hookwalls and are quite strong. I agree about repacking the bearings, and the doubles aren't compact from the gearing, they are sports touring gearing. You'll find likely that you like them for road riding.

    As to that dent, I'll definitely need to see it. Take a detail pic and PM it to me or email it. You have my email, right? Give me as clear and large of an image as you can. I was assuming cables would need replaced, that's easy. Plan on new brake pads as well, those are likely hard as a rock! Clean the rims with rubbing alcohol to remove excess brake compound and the brakes will perform better.

    Bottom bracket: Sealed bearings?

    Tires: Walmart, less than $15 for the Bell 27", and they are actually fairly decent

    Around $9 for IRC gumwalls, both are 90psi tires. 27" is actually easier to find if you are touring and trash a tire in Backwoods, Alabama!
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

  10. #10
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Air
    I now have a roadbike! I'm excited and a bit scared for some reason...

    The story: My friend's old roomate left it behind. We were about the same height. It's been kept outside for the last two years, definately not ridden the last 4 months but probably not for most of the 2 years.

    I went there today and started oilin' her up. Pretty light bike (at least compared to my 44 lb mtb!).

    Specs:
    - Nishiki Sport
    - Frame: Chromoly 4130
    - Cranks: Sugino VP (only 2 - how do I find out if this is a compact double or not? Top ring is 52)
    - Wheels: Araya 27 x 1 1/4"
    - Hubs: Maillard with quick release front and rear
    - Derailleurs: Suntour SVX
    - Brakes: Dia Compe sidepulls
    - Stem: Custom
    - Saddle: Vetta
    - Brake levers: Dia Compe
    - Handlebar: Champion
    - Grips: Squishy
    - Misc: The bike has 2 water bottle cage mounts and mounts for racks and fenders though it doesn't seem like there's room for a fender.

    Pros:
    - Obviously - free is great
    - Seatpost freely moved
    - A little liquid wrench and the derailers moved easily
    - Crankset is in excellent condition - the teeth look spankin' new.
    - Spokes are in pretty decent condition - two spokes are a little rusty but some steel wool should take care of that.

    Cons:
    - Here's the big one. There is a kickstand. Seems like the kickstand was down and someone leaned against it - there's a decent sized dent on the bottom of the bottom tube leading from the bb to dropouts. However the dent doesn't seem to be in a structural place and he probably rode that way on it for a while by the looks of it. I'll include shots of that this weekend, see what y'll think.
    - A tad tall. No fist is getting from the top tube to the tackle shop, though I think if I had to jump off I wouldn't get stuck as if I was on a fence.
    - According to the man the 27's are equivalent to 630 mm. Would prefer to have 700's since it's easier to get tires/tubes for it. Doesn't look like there's enough room for them though.
    - Tires are shot. Sidewall is peeling off - I'm surprised I made it the 2 miles back! I was hoping to pick up some tires for cheap but if this is a speciality then this may start getting expensive.
    - Took the front wheel off and spun it - very crunchy. Might just be rusty bearings or could be an eaten hub; there felt like there was a lot of resistance probably in the hubs and some rubbing of the brakes.
    - Handlebars too low.
    - Cables are a bit rusty, will have to change those.

    Weird things
    - If I move the brake cables it seems like the brake engages. And my hands have to go under the cables in order to fit.

    If I'm going to put money into this I'd like it to go towards parts I can transfer. The frame has me a little worried and the 27" tires seem like they'll cause some problems.

    Again, I'll take pics this weekend and post.
    See the red: Are you sure this isn't a manufacturers design? Specifically a crimp in the tubing to provide a flat spot for the kickstand?
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

  11. #11
    SERENITY NOW!!! jyossarian's Avatar
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    Air, I have some aluminum road drops I'm not using that I'll let you have for the price of a cheeseburger or some donuts. And none of that Mickey D's crap either.

    If I were you, I'd change out the brake and derailleur cables and housings, put Kool Stop brake pads on it and get some new tubes & tires. 27" tires are still around b/c there's lots of older bikes around so they won't be hard to find. And Tom mentioned the chain stay might have an indentation specifically for kickstand clearance so I wouldn't worry about it.

    BTW, if the only way to grab the brakes is when you're in the drops, you might want to get some aero brake levers (Nashbar has 'em for $15/pr) or you could get the aero levers and some in-line cross levers so you can brake from the tops.
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  12. #12
    Dolce far niente bigbossman's Avatar
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    The Nashbar aeor levers are quite good, install easily, and are inexpensive. Also, they sell Continental Sport 1000 tires in 27". They are a good solid tire that roll well and are inexpensive, too.
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  13. #13
    Air
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    Hey guys, thanks for all your comments!

    OK, here are the pics (click for larger):







    Drivetrain looks barely used!
    Last edited by Air; 12-20-06 at 09:34 AM.

  14. #14
    Air
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    Here's the spots on the chainstay before and after I took the kickstand off:





    So looking at it in the daylight those dents may very well be part of the design. What do you think?

    I'm going to hopefully pick up some used tires tonight, maybe regrease the rear hub or at least have someone take a look at it. The front was really crunchy but after being at my place and the ride it seems to have loosened up a bit. The rear is really resistant though, may need a new rear wheel.

    Also - can I get brifters for this? I really don't like having the shifters so far away. Figure if I get those then I'll replace all the cables after that.

    What's a good way to take some of that rust off? Steel wool? Sandpaper? Figure I'll knock it off then hit it with some black Rustoleam.

    Any other suggestions welcome, thanks!
    Last edited by Air; 12-19-06 at 03:22 PM.

  15. #15
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Steel Wool and WD 40 or Naval Jelly to remove the rust....wear gloves. Sand the frame area with a 00 grit sandpaper and prime with a Rustoleum Rust Inhibitive primer where the kickstand was. There's that stuff from rustoleum to prime metal that has started rusting that converts any residual rust into a component of the primer. Flat spots do indeed look like they were manufactured for the kickstand area.

    Brifters? I'd look at Barcons or an old set of Suntour Thumb shifters, non indexed friction type. I'll look on my parts bin, I may have a pair of the Thumbies! Either one would work, put the Thumbies down on the drops like a barcon and that way you can also get the Aero look at least with the shifters. Put out a hail on C7V's for trade thread for barcons as well!

    Personally, I really like downtube shifters, but they are even further away than stem.....they just look so retro and when you get used to them, they are great! Simplicity itself!

    Yellow Cineli bar tape too!

    Black Brooks to go with it!

    You go with downtube shifters, with that lug frame, you'll end up with a ride that will be noticed.

    Tires:

    Here's a source for 27" tires with some snap, like Panaracer!
    http://www.biketiresdirect.com/searc...lts.asp?cat=27
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

  16. #16
    Air
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    Sweet Tom, thanks!

  17. #17
    Senior Member big john's Avatar
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    It looks a lot better than you made it sound in your first post! I'm not sure about that dented area, I'd get that rust off of there and keep an eye on it for cracks. Those hubs are simple, you need 2 cone wrenches to service them. You might be able to just replace the axles (cheap) if the bearings are bad. You'll get used to the shifters, no brifters for that bike. It's a big frame, you might want a shorter stem if the bars seem too far away. You might want to look into servicing the bottom bracket, too. Again, that is a simple set-up with ball bearings you can grease. You'll need more special tools, though.

  18. #18
    Air
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    Yup - I can do most of that stuff myself. Just did a quick sanding - gotta run but it doesn't look like the lugs are compromised. Doesn't quite look like it's supposed to be there but no cracks or other disfigurement. W00t!

  19. #19
    staring at the mountains superdex's Avatar
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    (I'd make it a fixie conversion )

    Congrats!

    You can throw 700c wheels in there without much ado; I put some on a 1980ish Schwinn Le Tour (27" wheels) without much problem -- had to adjust the brakes.

    Definitely change the cables.

    Remove the derailluers and clean. Months in the elements and rust can wreak havoc. Be prepared to replace...

    Then go ride the sh1t out of it!

  20. #20
    Air
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    What's the best way of cleaning the derailers? Soak in Simple Green? I put some liquid wrench on them - they're shifting great now!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by superdex
    (I'd make it a fixie conversion )

    Congrats!

    You can throw 700c wheels in there without much ado; I put some on a 1980ish Schwinn Le Tour (27" wheels) without much problem -- had to adjust the brakes.

    Definitely change the cables.

    Remove the derailluers and clean. Months in the elements and rust can wreak havoc. Be prepared to replace...

    Then go ride the sh1t out of it!
    +1 to make it into a fixie conversion.

    you can solve all the derailer/cable/ brake issues with one fell swoop....bam right in the junker.

    and if you go with a new set of 700c wheels, you don't have to worry about repacking those hubs.

    just an opinion.

  22. #22
    Air
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    So the order of new bikes I had was:

    Fix mtb
    Folding bike
    Road bike
    Fixie

    Let me get the road bike up to speed with some serious miles and then we'll talk about the fixie

  23. #23
    Air
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    Had a couple of gear heads take a look at the dent - felt it was nothing to worry about!

    For $5 I got a pair of slicks and for another $5 a pair of Aero brakes (mismatched but whatever). So now I'm not in a panic mode to get new tires.

    The front wheel was over tightened - loosened it a bit and what a difference! The free wheel feels like their's mud in the back, probably just rusty bearings. The gears are in such good condition I'm thinking about trying to overhaul it.

    REALLY need to get a higher headset. I think I may spring for one that's adjustable so I can really play with angles and heights while getting used to the road bike feel. Almost picked one up but couldn't find part of it.

    On the way over I heard some creaks coming from the rear wheel. When I checked sure enough there were about 8 spokes really loose. Tightened them and completely screwed up the trueness. Had to get a bit of help getting it to a rideable point (including slamming the rim on a table which surprisingly helped quite a bit to release tension) - will play with it more so I can concentrate on repacking the hubs and bb.

  24. #24
    SERENITY NOW!!! jyossarian's Avatar
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    Hit up Times Up and they can help you clean and repack your hubs and check out your bb. Actually, they can help you with everything else too (replacing the cables, pads, etc.) Or grab a copy of Zinn's book, a six pack and get to wrenching!
    HHCMF - Take pride in your ability to amaze lesser mortals! - MikeR



    We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!

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    Air
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    Yup - that's where I was tonight

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