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  1. #1
    Clyde Rider/Racer
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    Clyde Divisions starting at 200lbs...WTF!

    Don't know if anyone else has an opinion of this and I don't mean to make any enemies when I say, I've already heard the diatribes of the 210 pounders opinion's but any other folks out there that just want to spit every time you roll up to the start of the Clyde division and there's half a dozen racers that are weighing in under 225lb....even under 250lbs, look as if they're carrying maybe ten percent body fat and MOST DEFINITELY should be gritting up and racing the sport class. In my opinion, it's just another form of sandbagging and race organizers should recognize this garbage and do something about it (say, weight classes, going up every fifty to a hundred pounds). I dig that you're six foot five and that has you weighing in at 232lbs. but c'mon man, take your thirty-six inch waist and get in one of the sport divisions and let us truly large fellas not let all of our training and hard work have to take a backseat in the standings to your sandbagger ways.
    I can't tell you how many times I was racing (mountain bikes) and I'm beating the other big big clydes and come rolling into the finish only to find out I'm fifth in my division and the cat that finished fourth was in about ten minutes before me...I'm NOT being a sore loser, what I'm being is an experienced racer that recognizes when the first second third and even fourth place finishers are upwards of fifteen/twenty minutes in before the rest of the field, those are individuals racing in the wrong class and the divisions have been set too lax to allow for serious competition.
    There must be a way to start a grassroots push to make the lowest Clyde weight 250lb. and a recognition of division dedicated to the REALLY big racers. I dunno, this rant comes after looking at the comical results of last years Clydesdale National Championships...a bunch of really tall, a bit over two hundred pounders calling themselves Clydes...

    Okay "skinny clydes" you can begin your attack now...

  2. #2
    Fat yet photogenic obelix67's Avatar
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    Ask to sit on their bike and pop the frame or forks then apologise that he has his bike in the wrong section - or maybe I am too aggressive
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  3. #3
    Solo Rider, always DFL
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    Well, in the true circular firing squad that the sport seems to be, I guess you can lobby for that...

    Once you do, guys who are 300 pounds will start asking for that to be the cutoff etc. etc. etc.

    I go about 215, and I'm 6'3" so I suppose I would be in that zone by your definition but am not super quick, and don't have 10% body fat, do I get my own category?

  4. #4
    Fat yet photogenic obelix67's Avatar
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    nah you just have to pick 3 inches to cut off
    On a 2007 GT Avalanche 1.0 disc http://i18.tinypic.com/4d2d89s.gif Time to break from the Union

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    I could see a split at 250 for a 'SuperClyde' category, but then where do you stop? >300 = MegaClyde? >400 = UltraClyde? >500 = PlanetClyde?

    I kid. Of course I understand your frustration, but aren't most of us in this to get fitter? If you're a big boy at 255, aren't you hoping your athletic endeavors will help you drop weight and get stronger? At what point would you decide to stop 'sandbagging' and join your age group?

    I've not been below 200 since college (except when I had a post-surgery illness and dropped to 187). That said, in triathlon shape I go about 6'2" 205, and may drop below 200 at some point. If that happens, I'll go with my age group, but I assure you I'm not going to be one of the top clydes or age-groupers in any race I enter (my >10min/mi run pace will see to that).

    Jim

  6. #6
    Clyde Rider/Racer
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    Quote Originally Posted by superslomo
    Well, in the true circular firing squad that the sport seems to be, I guess you can lobby for that...

    Once you do, guys who are 300 pounds will start asking for that to be the cutoff etc. etc. etc.

    I go about 215, and I'm 6'3" so I suppose I would be in that zone by your definition but am not super quick, and don't have 10% body fat, do I get my own category?
    No. You get the age group sport class...I'm 6'3" and know exactly what 215 looks like on a 6'3" frame...it doesn't look like a Clydesdale.

  7. #7
    Senior Member yeamac's Avatar
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    I would think most clydes that are far from being "athletically proportioned" are not really interested in racing. I mean, lets face it, being overweight does not lend itself to being competitive in athletics. That's great that you are racing and doing well, but I don't see how realistically you can get things to change.

    Trying to get a 250+ lb racing league will probably be as successful as trying to start a pro basketball league for guys under 6 ft tall.

  8. #8
    Clyde Rider/Racer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus
    At what point would you decide to stop 'sandbagging' and join your age group?
    I think you join your age group when the time you've finished in for the Clyde division breaks into the finishing times of the sport div racers...that's my deal; these yahoos were winning the Clyde division but coming in at times that would place them out of "win/place/show" finish of the sport class but still in the top ten of the sport division...Trophy chasing sandbaggers!!!!

    As far as how far do you take the divisions, well I just like a "super clyde" or something at 300lbs. because there aren't many of us 300+ racers but we're big, bad and out there. And while I can ride the same distance and even have a close to the same burst off the line as a 225lb. clyde, how in the world is it fair that a 375lb. guy be competing against a guy that weighs 208lbs.

    I wonder how hard it is to put a race together?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by The CLYDE
    I think you join your age group when the time you've finished in for the Clyde division breaks into the finishing times of the sport div racers...that's my deal; these yahoos were winning the Clyde division but coming in at times that would place them out of "win/place/show" finish of the sport class but still in the top ten of the sport division...Trophy chasing sandbaggers!!!!
    OK, agree with this. If you're winning the Clyde division with times that are competitive in age group, you should be competing in age group, no doubt.

    As far as how far do you take the divisions, well I just like a "super clyde" or something at 300lbs. because there aren't many of us 300+ racers but we're big, bad and out there. And while I can ride the same distance and even have a close to the same burst off the line as a 225lb. clyde, how in the world is it fair that a 375lb. guy be competing against a guy that weighs 208lbs.

    I wonder how hard it is to put a race together?
    So you're talking BIG boys. Gotcha now. I think an all-clyde race with different weight classes would be a blast, personally.

    Good topic.

    Jim

  10. #10
    Sensible shoes. CastIron's Avatar
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    The number is what it is. Make it 190 or 290. There's always room to *****. Same with road racing. It's the category you're in so go compete if you can, zip it if you can't.
    Mike
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  11. #11
    Gears? CliftonGK1's Avatar
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    6'6", 245 pounds.
    If I were to go back and race a tri, I'd easily be among the more "average" body type of the Clydesdale div racers.

    Back in my racing heyday I was under 10% bodyfat. 6'6", 215 pounds. Yeah, I'll admit to taking advantage of the Clydesdale division for many a race. I was 18 at the time. I just capped out of an age division I was dominating: 15-17. I pulled my first race in the 18-22 age div. and got slaughtered, and very disappointed, so I took full advantage of the only weapon I had; my size. At 6'6", it's been a looong time since I've seen the lighter side of 200 pounds. I first saw the Clyde division in a Budweiser sponsored race in Columbus, Ohio back in 1992. There were 5 of us on the starting line for the entire division, and everyone was in similar shape to me. The end of that season, and my tri-racing career, was a horrible wreck that put me off riding for over a year, so I never saw the further development of the Clyde Division past those few races I was in with very few other racers.
    "I feel like my world was classier before I found cyclocross."
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  12. #12
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Clyde comes from the triathlon world. 200 was the initial setpoint and 300+ is an Uberclyde, as I understand it.
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


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  13. #13
    Senior Member BLIZZ's Avatar
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    Being a clyde and 55 years old. I'm hear to tell you it doesn't get any easier with the age groups. A 55 year old will have to go in the over 40 or sometimes the over 35 age group. Twenty years difference is as hard to make up as 100lbs. plus in the age group you have guys who have ridden all their lives {some retired pros**and never stoped like I did to raises a family or meet commitments. If you look at the times the over 40 group will usually beat the 20 somethings.
    I'm not totally useless....I can be used as a BAD example.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Bill Kapaun's Avatar
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    30 years ago, I weighed about 230, but performed streenous work on a daily basis. Now I'm 245 and am relatively sedentry. Similar weight, but about 8" more around the waist.
    Should I compete against myself? 2 very different bodies!
    I don't see how one can really divide things up to suit everybody without having many divisions with 1 or 2 riders.
    If you are really doing it for "fun", than just compete against yourself and try to set new personal bests.

  15. #15
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun
    30 years ago, I weighed about 230, but performed streenous work on a daily basis. Now I'm 245 and am relatively sedentry. Similar weight, but about 8" more around the waist.
    Should I compete against myself? 2 very different bodies!
    I don't see how one can really divide things up to suit everybody without having many divisions with 1 or 2 riders.
    If you are really doing it for "fun", than just compete against yourself and try to set new personal bests.
    That's pretty much what I do.....I could care less if I come in first or last, as long as I cross the line under my own power!
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Stormcrowe
    That's pretty much what I do.....I could care less if I come in first or last, as long as I cross the line under my own power!
    To borrow from the .sig of a fellow multi-sport poster on another board:

    DFL > DNF > DNS

    Jim

  17. #17
    Senior Member mkadam68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The CLYDE
    ...I'm fifth in my division and the cat that finished fourth was in about ten minutes before me...I'm NOT being a sore loser, what I'm being is an ...
    Yes you are. If you had finished first, this wouldn't be an issue. Life's not fair...get over it. Now go drop some weight, and compete on more level terms. Or, just beat 'em anyway.

    Me? I don't consider myself a "skinny clyde": 265 lbs. I won a race against some 175 lb-er in a cat 5 race a few years back. He felt bad. I felt great. I had many other good results, many podium finishes within my age group. Only once did I race with a clyde category (2nd place: won $25--paid registration). Today? I've been regularly outclimbing a local 125 lb woman cat 3 racer lately. Still can't climb with the 150 lb cat 3/4 men, but I can follow them on the flats and rollers no problem.

    Visit The C-Blog : the blog about cycling.

  18. #18
    Clyde Rider/Racer
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeamac
    I would think most clydes that are far from being "athletically proportioned" are not really interested in racing. I mean, lets face it, being overweight does not lend itself to being competitive in athletics. That's great that you are racing and doing well, but I don't see how realistically you can get things to change.

    Trying to get a 250+ lb racing league will probably be as successful as trying to start a pro basketball league for guys under 6 ft tall.
    With this line of thinking you're absolutely right...nothing could/would change.

  19. #19
    Clyde Rider/Racer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun
    30 years ago, I weighed about 230, but performed streenous work on a daily basis. Now I'm 245 and am relatively sedentry. Similar weight, but about 8" more around the waist.
    Should I compete against myself? 2 very different bodies!
    I don't see how one can really divide things up to suit everybody without having many divisions with 1 or 2 riders.
    If you are really doing it for "fun", than just compete against yourself and try to set new personal bests.
    They don't seem to have a problem dividing up a multitude of groups for the am, beg, exp, pro and/or age groupers...each one of those has half a dozen divisions per...there's ONE Clyde division typically.

  20. #20
    Clyde Rider/Racer
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkadam68
    Yes you are. If you had finished first, this wouldn't be an issue. Life's not fair...get over it. Now go drop some weight, and compete on more level terms. Or, just beat 'em anyway.

    Me? I don't consider myself a "skinny clyde": 265 lbs. I won a race against some 175 lb-er in a cat 5 race a few years back. He felt bad. I felt great. I had many other good results, many podium finishes within my age group. Only once did I race with a clyde category (2nd place: won $25--paid registration). Today? I've been regularly outclimbing a local 125 lb woman cat 3 racer lately. Still can't climb with the 150 lb cat 3/4 men, but I can follow them on the flats and rollers no problem.
    Don't be such a tool...do you think in racing since 1985 and several of those years as a sponsored (pays all my bills) pro, I haven't seen the podium? I have, and I still am of the opinion that the Clyde division isn't and never has been taken seriously and we're out there, just look at the membership of this sect of the forum. Now a bunch of you talk up weight loss and what's it matter yadda yadda yadda and I knew there would be a couple, "if you had won..." people talking without the know, but no, I'm not being a sore loser...a Sandbagger is a virus in the sport and a p***y in a bike race. But I'm not busting ass, training for these races, so some 6'4" 210er who wants to put on a good show for his girlfriend by cherry picking an easy win in the clyde division is bull****!

    Hey, good job on your win though! That rocks!

  21. #21
    Solo Rider, always DFL
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    Does the category exist in races where there is real money on the table?

    I can understand the frustration, even though I'm sure you're faster than I am (hard not to be ) But it's not sandbagging if someone qualifies for the category. It may not be as much of a challenge as they should be setting themselves, but sandbagging is kind of a bit of a vicious charge to level at someone (at least in my experience in other activities where there was handicapping.)

  22. #22
    Clyde Rider/Racer
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    Quote Originally Posted by superslomo
    Does the category exist in races where there is real money on the table?

    I can understand the frustration, even though I'm sure you're faster than I am (hard not to be ) But it's not sandbagging if someone qualifies for the category. It may not be as much of a challenge as they should be setting themselves, but sandbagging is kind of a bit of a vicious charge to level at someone (at least in my experience in other activities where there was handicapping.)
    No man, I'm not meaning to pick on the 5'9" racer that weighs in at 215 with an avg. speed of 4.5mph...more power to those guys, I'm actually trying to take a stand for the guys that have the burn to race in their blood and the guts to go do it - AWESOME! But it's those guys that really no more than their height has put them into our category, these same yahoos ride with their buddies (not clydes) every weekend, keep up and even beat them in fun training, "race ya' to the next whatever" sprints, etc. etc. Guys that could be competitive in their perspective sport class or age group but instead opt for the pursuit of easier competition by eeking their way into the Clyde division for a better final standing. Even if they just changed the min. weight to 250lb. it would force a lot of those clowns into the groups they should be. But no I agree that a qualifying weight doesn't automatically make you a sandbagger...and i DEFINITELY apologize if I offended anyone (not my intent)...I really shouldn't have even begun to name numbers at all...because I don't mean to suggest that any clyde is more clyde than another...Sandbaggers know EXACTLY who they are and they are COMPLETELY aware that they are sandbagging when doing so. When racing was my life, I never once raced below my division, not a single time ever...you don't get better that way, you get better by pushing yourself our of your comfort zone.

  23. #23
    Fred
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    Is there any evidence that a guy that's 210 is capable of higher speed than someone of comparable build who weighs, say, 240 or 270?

    It's clear that a 5'8 guy who weighs two lbs / inch of height is going to beat you in a Marathon, and probably an endurance bike race. But what about a guy who weighs three lbs / inch of height versus one who weighs 3.5 lbs / inch, with similar body fat percentage?

  24. #24
    Senior Member BLIZZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garandman

    It's clear that a 5'8 guy who weighs two lbs / inch of height is going to beat you in a Marathon, and probably an endurance bike race. But what about a guy who weighs three lbs / inch of height versus one who weighs 3.5 lbs / inch, with similar body fat percentage?
    Maybe that's the answere.......instead of a weight minimum, maybe the class should be linked to a height to weight ratio as a minimum. It could be kept simple with a scale & tape measure.

    I know what your saying about sand baggers, I always moved up in difficulty as soon as possible in order to get better, but not all people are like that. They have to live with themselves though...and everyone knows the real score.
    I'm not totally useless....I can be used as a BAD example.

  25. #25
    velosipedist
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    I'm 5'11" and when I was racing B/Cat-3 in my younger days I weighed 160 lbs dripping wet. Years later, I've rediscovered serious cycling but I weigh 220, and I am very much a "fatty".

    So chill out a bit. Not every sub-250 clyde is lean muscle.

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