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  1. #1
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    *gasp* fatty with wheel questions

    hello world,

    i've been lurking on this board for a while after discovering the clydesdale sticky and reading every thread in it multiple times. i've recently gotten into cycling as an adult as part of a weight loss regimen, and am really enjoying riding. however i'm plagued by the same problem all lardos must deal with...wheels that won't stay in true. when i started riding i was 275lbs in dec, i'm now down to 225lbs. i ride a 2007 trek xo-1. i use the bike for commuting/group rides. mostly on road.

    when i bought my bike, it came with 32h Alex 450 rims, tiagra hubs, with 32c bontrager cross tires. the tires are comfortable, but very loud and kind of slow. the wheels however are real pieces of crap. they won't stay in true for very long at all. i constantly have to loosen my brake cables to avoid rubbing between trips to the LBS to get the wheels trued again. i want to get some new wheels made, but i wanted to ask the advice of others who've been in may have been in my situation.

    i don't know how to true wheels myself, nor do i really care to know how. i have enough hobbies as it is...for me cycling is just about riding. i want to make some wheels that are pretty bombproof and will stay in true for a while. I'm thinking of velocity deep Vs with either ultegra or dura ace hubs made by a local wheel builder. so now, my questions:

    1. spoke count? I'm thinking 32 in front and 36 in the rear. i know at 275lbs this would be the minimum, but at 225 is it overkill? Does the number of spokes affect performance so much that i would notice an increase in speed dropping down to 28/32? or is the difference between 28/32 and 32/36 so minimal that i might as well get more spokes so i have less to worry about? is the number of spokes mainly a weight issue or a aerodynamics issue?

    2. hub/bearing quality? i'm a fisherman with a taste for expensive reels (we're called 'tackle hos') so I understand the difference in price and performance of quality bearings vs crap bearings. are the bearings in dura ace hubs significantly better than those in ultegra hubs? are dura ace hubs more expensive because the bearings are better, or just because the housing/total assembly is lighter? are the ratings used in higher end hubs ABEC rated? also, i know dura ace track hubs are not sealed, but what about the bearings in dura ace road hubs? i don't want to have to repack the bearings...

    3. tires: i'm currently riding the size 32 tires that came with the bike. I want to run something narrower with a less knobby tread pattern. I'm thinking 28. Is this too thin for my weight, or is it ok? Are there any suggestions on good slicks in this width?

    4. wheel builder? i'm looking for a good wheel builder in the los angeles area. i bought my bike used, so i don't really have much of an established relation with any of the shops in the area. i've read that hand built is the way to go, and that initial build quality will have a huge impact on the life of the wheel. does anybody know a good wheel builder in LA to build the kind of wheel i'm looking to have made? also, will wheelbuilders build the wheels if i only order the rims/spokes/labor/tires through them and provide my own hubs? or will this be seen as the greatest of insults?

    sorry for all the questions, but i don't have the money to experiment with multiple wheelsets and I want to get this done right the first time and back to enjoying riding.

    thanks in advance for any responses

  2. #2
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    I run 40 rear, 36 front, but then again, I ride a touring bike primarily. The bike I use for road races is 36/36 and my mountain bike is 40/36. I believe in overkill though......
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


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  3. #3
    No one carries the DogBoy
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    1. You won't notice the difference.

    2. Significant difference in hub quality, but I personally don't know the answers to your question other than yes, bearing quality and weight improve with higher end hubs.

    3. Conti ultra-gatorskins 700-28. Tougher than a typical tire, but still fairly light. I ride it with no issues at 230.

    4. If you don't get local suggestions, I think peterwhitecycles.com will build a wheel and ship it to you. He has a very good rep as a wheel builder.

  4. #4
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatandfast
    when i bought my bike, it came with 32h Alex 450 rims, tiagra hubs, with 32c bontrager cross tires. the tires are comfortable, but very loud and kind of slow. the wheels however are real pieces of crap. they won't stay in true for very long at all. i constantly have to loosen my brake cables to avoid rubbing between trips to the LBS to get the wheels trued again. i want to get some new wheels made, but i wanted to ask the advice of others who've been in may have been in my situation.

    i don't know how to true wheels myself, nor do i really care to know how. i have enough hobbies as it is...for me cycling is just about riding. i want to make some wheels that are pretty bombproof and will stay in true for a while. I'm thinking of velocity deep Vs with either ultegra or dura ace hubs made by a local wheel builder. so now, my questions:

    1. spoke count? I'm thinking 32 in front and 36 in the rear. i know at 275lbs this would be the minimum, but at 225 is it overkill? Does the number of spokes affect performance so much that i would notice an increase in speed dropping down to 28/32? or is the difference between 28/32 and 32/36 so minimal that i might as well get more spokes so i have less to worry about? is the number of spokes mainly a weight issue or a aerodynamics issue?
    I'd probably go with a 36 spoke hub front and rear. You aren't losing much in terms of weight or aerodynamics and you are gaining a lot in terms of strength. With 28 spoke rims, you're asking a lot of just a few spokes. The way I look at it is that if the wheel is busted, light weight doesn't account for much.

    Quote Originally Posted by fatandfast
    2. hub/bearing quality? i'm a fisherman with a taste for expensive reels (we're called 'tackle hos') so I understand the difference in price and performance of quality bearings vs crap bearings. are the bearings in dura ace hubs significantly better than those in ultegra hubs? are dura ace hubs more expensive because the bearings are better, or just because the housing/total assembly is lighter? are the ratings used in higher end hubs ABEC rated? also, i know dura ace track hubs are not sealed, but what about the bearings in dura ace road hubs? i don't want to have to repack the bearings...
    If you don't want to repack bearings you best bet is Phil Wood or King hubs. As expensive as any reel and as pretty. Not light weight but durable...we're talking hierloom durable

    In hubs...at least the Shimano family...there are small differences between the higher end and the next step down. However, most people wouldn't notice. The Dura Ace is going to be a nicer finish and perhaps a little lighter with some extra features thrown in. But the Ultegras aren't going to be crap. Kind of like comparing a Chevy and a Caddy. Both are good, ones a little nicer.

    Quote Originally Posted by fatandfast
    3. tires: i'm currently riding the size 32 tires that came with the bike. I want to run something narrower with a less knobby tread pattern. I'm thinking 28. Is this too thin for my weight, or is it ok? Are there any suggestions on good slicks in this width?
    28's should be fine but your ride will be harsher. Can't really give you a suggestion. Most of my tires are touring oriented.
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  5. #5
    Perma-Clyde (51)'s Avatar
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    I'm Uber running 36's front and rear. A good hand-built wheel will do you fine. I have mine respoked/trued every 2,000 miles. I have put over 5,000 miles on my stock Bontrager 750 wheels. No tacos thus far...although I did pop a spoke once. Keep in mind these are road miles.
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  6. #6
    Dolce far niente bigbossman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatandfast
    1. spoke count? I'm thinking 32 in front and 36 in the rear. i know at 275lbs this would be the minimum, but at 225 is it overkill?
    Depends on what wheel components are in play. At 225, you have a lot of choices and a custom wheel builder can most certainly guide your decision. For instance, I'm at 230lbs, and had a custom 24/28 set built on very stiff semi-aero rims. about 5,000 miles and 10 or so centuries later, absolutely no issues. Still true, stiff, and smooth.

    Quote Originally Posted by fatandfast
    2. hub/bearing quality? I'm a fisherman with a taste for expensive reels (we're called 'tackle hos') so I understand the difference in price and performance of quality bearings vs crap bearings. are the bearings in dura ace hubs significantly better than those in ultegra hubs? are dura ace hubs more expensive because the bearings are better, or just because the housing/total assembly is lighter?
    Any quality name brand hub will be built well and many "generics" are , as well. Typically, higher end within a given brand are that way because of weight. Get whichever one suits your needs and gives you the bling factor you're looking for. You won't go wrong with either Dura Ace or Ultegra.

    Quote Originally Posted by fatandfast
    3. tires: I'm currently riding the size 32 tires that came with the bike. I want to run something narrower with a less knobby tread pattern. I'm thinking 28. Is this too thin for my weight, or is it ok? Are there any suggestions on good slicks in this width?
    Again, depends on what you're looking for. I run 23c Michelin Pro Race 2's and am VERY, VERY happy with them. A narrower tire will give a somewhat harsher ride, but the trade-off for performance and light rolling resistance is more than worth it for me. I won't ride any other tire - but that's just me for the conditions I ride in. you're requirements may be different.

    Quote Originally Posted by fatandfast
    4. wheel builder? I'm looking for a good wheel builder in the Los Angeles area.
    Cant' help with the L.A area, but there are several excellent wheel builders as close to you as the phone. Do a search on the forum, and you'll see several very respected names that do quality work. I chose a fellow named Mike Garcia, and he built me a fantastic set of wheels at a very good price.
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  7. #7
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    Sounds like my sitch. I've rode at 340 for a brief time heavier on a hybrid,short rides.I'm 230-240 now,I have a long way to go as far as conditioning. wheels haven't ever been a problem,unless I was to include tubulars.I just this week changed tubular(sew-ups) to sun rims 36spk. front and rear.I believe 38 rear..30 front is enough,it doesn't work that way.36 is over-kill for the front,it won't hurt though. I bought the very best tires I "could" 28 Specialized All Conditions. They roll WAY better than 32's,HONEST..I like 'em better than my old "racing" tires,on every level. You stated hand-builts,expect to pay 2 to3 hundred.Colorado Cyc. or Excel come
    to mind. If you get wheels through your LBS, he's more apt to back 'em -up.Many folkes are big on re-truing wheels,you had a problem ,maybe I'm lucky,I plan to have my wheels checked in a month or so. Many claim to
    be hooked-up with great wh.builders,I'd try the two I said. Hub brand is no big deal.Most builders use mid-level hubs. DON'T let anyone talk you into anything other than a low-profile BOX rim. Hand -built box rims are what the pros use in Europe for the Classics over rough terrain,cobbles,rural roads and such.Semi-aero are strong
    but std-box are laterally more durable.I read what's been written,I just went through this so.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatandfast
    hello world,

    i've been lurking on this board for a while after discovering the clydesdale sticky and reading every thread in it multiple times. i've recently gotten into cycling as an adult as part of a weight loss regimen, and am really enjoying riding. however i'm plagued by the same problem all lardos must deal with...wheels that won't stay in true. when i started riding i was 275lbs in dec, i'm now down to 225lbs. i ride a 2007 trek xo-1. i use the bike for commuting/group rides. mostly on road.

    when i bought my bike, it came with 32h Alex 450 rims, tiagra hubs, with 32c bontrager cross tires. the tires are comfortable, but very loud and kind of slow. the wheels however are real pieces of crap. they won't stay in true for very long at all. i constantly have to loosen my brake cables to avoid rubbing between trips to the LBS to get the wheels trued again. i want to get some new wheels made, but i wanted to ask the advice of others who've been in may have been in my situation.

    i don't know how to true wheels myself, nor do i really care to know how. i have enough hobbies as it is...for me cycling is just about riding. i want to make some wheels that are pretty bombproof and will stay in true for a while. I'm thinking of velocity deep Vs with either ultegra or dura ace hubs made by a local wheel builder. so now, my questions:
    I would think that the problem is inadequate spoke tension, this means either the LBS employs a moron in their wheel truing department, or they want you to have your wheels go out of true, so you need to keep going back for another truing. I suggest you try and find a wheelbuilder in your area, and have them properly true and tension the wheels, before you decide you need new wheels.

    Quote Originally Posted by fatandfast
    1. spoke count? I'm thinking 32 in front and 36 in the rear. i know at 275lbs this would be the minimum, but at 225 is it overkill? Does the number of spokes affect performance so much that i would notice an increase in speed dropping down to 28/32? or is the difference between 28/32 and 32/36 so minimal that i might as well get more spokes so i have less to worry about? is the number of spokes mainly a weight issue or a aerodynamics issue?
    The more spokes you have, the stronger the wheel, fewer spokes is supposed to be more aerodynamic, but it is a very small amount, a solid wheel on a bike where everything is made as aero as possible and the rider is in a level flat back situation, you might gain 20 seconds over 100 miles. A good wheel builder will take your riding style and weight into account, and can recommend a good spoke count. Your idea of 32 front and 36 rear sounds reasonable, UNLESS you decide to use the bike for loaded touring, then go 36 on both ends. Some tour riders go even higher with 36/40 or even 40/40, but then those guys put 100lbs of gear on their bikes

    Quote Originally Posted by fatandfast
    2. hub/bearing quality? i'm a fisherman with a taste for expensive reels (we're called 'tackle hos') so I understand the difference in price and performance of quality bearings vs crap bearings. are the bearings in dura ace hubs significantly better than those in ultegra hubs? are dura ace hubs more expensive because the bearings are better, or just because the housing/total assembly is lighter? are the ratings used in higher end hubs ABEC rated? also, i know dura ace track hubs are not sealed, but what about the bearings in dura ace road hubs? i don't want to have to repack the bearings...
    Most hubs should be reasonably similar quality wise, the difference is often that more expensive is lighter in weight, I don't know if Shimano seals their road bearings or not, or what grade of bearings they use, but mechanically all hubs are created equal, you have cups, cones, axles and bearings inside a shell. Even the best ones need occassional service, you just make sure you use good quality bearing balls.

    Quote Originally Posted by fatandfast
    3. tires: i'm currently riding the size 32 tires that came with the bike. I want to run something narrower with a less knobby tread pattern. I'm thinking 28. Is this too thin for my weight, or is it ok? Are there any suggestions on good slicks in this width?
    The narrower the tire, the higher the allowable pressure, higher pressure means less rolling resistance, but it also means a harsher ride, now tread patterns can be interesting, for strictly pavement riding, you really don't nead any. However, there is always that situation where a little tread can be handy like that pile of sand or mud at the bottom of the hill, where it curves, and a completely smooth tire would leave you eating tree

    Quote Originally Posted by fatandfast

    4. wheel builder? i'm looking for a good wheel builder in the los angeles area. i bought my bike used, so i don't really have much of an established relation with any of the shops in the area. i've read that hand built is the way to go, and that initial build quality will have a huge impact on the life of the wheel. does anybody know a good wheel builder in LA to build the kind of wheel i'm looking to have made? also, will wheelbuilders build the wheels if i only order the rims/spokes/labor/tires through them and provide my own hubs? or will this be seen as the greatest of insults?

    sorry for all the questions, but i don't have the money to experiment with multiple wheelsets and I want to get this done right the first time and back to enjoying riding.

    thanks in advance for any responses
    Can't help you select a wheel builder in LA, check to see if there are any cycling clubs in the area, who could recommend one, you can also check the local forums, on here. I can't see why you want to supply your own hubs, if there is a particular brand or model you want, then the wheel builder can order it out of the same QBP catalogue everyone else uses. Your wheel builder does not need to be local, either, it's possible to get wheels built in another state and shipped ground for a reasonable price. Check the old threads I think someone recommended a guy a week or two back, who was in CA.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatandfast
    hello world,
    2. hub/bearing quality? i'm a fisherman with a taste for expensive reels (we're called 'tackle hos') so I understand the difference in price and performance of quality bearings vs crap bearings. are the bearings in dura ace hubs significantly better than those in ultegra hubs? are dura ace hubs more expensive because the bearings are better, or just because the housing/total assembly is lighter? are the ratings used in higher end hubs ABEC rated? also, i know dura ace track hubs are not sealed, but what about the bearings in dura ace road hubs? i don't want to have to repack the bearings...
    The Shimano hubs mentioned show semi-labyrinth type seals in the exploded diagrams so they are somewhat sealed but not totaly. If you don't ride in lots of wet/muddy conditions and you pay attention to them you should get a very long life out of them. You will have to have them overhauled (cleaned/repacked/adjusted) every few thousand miles. Your LBS should be able to do that for a very reasonable price i think mine is 14 plus new bearings which is a couple bucks at worst. Whether the cost of a Phil Wood, or White Industries, or Chris King is worth it... Hard to know. They are much more expensive on the front end, but sealed cartridge bearings probably last longer and are certainly easier to replace, and they are reputed to be utterly indestructible.

    Paul

  10. #10
    Senior Member Luke1511's Avatar
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    Mike Garcia at www.OddsandEndos.com. Go check out his web site and then give him a call. Notice that he has no charge for shipping. I'm 225 and he built me a set of custom bomb proof aero rims w/spoke counts of 28f/32r. Customer service is first rate and if I ever need wheels again (like when I get down to skinny rider weight) I won't hesitate to call Mike.
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    I have had good luck with these wheels. XT hubs, 32 F&R DT spokes, Mavic 520 Rims. Hubs are actually dual use for both Disc or Rim brakes.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/Shimano-XT-M765-...QQcmdZViewItem

  12. #12
    Senior Member late's Avatar
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    Hi,
    I weigh 250. I suggest a compromise between roadie wheels and the much heavier touring models.

    What I have been using for 4 years is Mavic CXP33 rims on Durace hubs. I suggest going with Ultegra,
    which is what I have on my new wheels.

    The CXP33 wheels are light and amazingly strong. I used them with Rivendell's Ruffy Tuffy tire.
    They were light (for a Clyde wheel) and needed truing only twice in 4 years. If you ride a lot, get
    a different tire, maybe the Panaracer T-Serv 32c (which is actually more like 30) or the Marathon Racer.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatandfast
    hello world,

    i don't know how to true wheels myself, nor do i really care to know how. i have enough hobbies as it is...for me cycling is just about riding.
    Truing up wheels laterally for a loose spoke is very easy. I've gone thorugh 2 alex wheelsets and quickly learned how to true them up with a $25 Spin Dr stand. The biggest advantage is I didn't have to miss rides and waste tons of time running a wheel down to the lbs to get it done.


    Quote Originally Posted by fatandfast
    1. spoke count? I'm thinking 32 in front and 36 in the rear. i know at 275lbs this would be the minimum, but at 225 is it overkill? Does the number of spokes affect performance so much that i would notice an increase in speed dropping down to 28/32?
    Those would be plenty for 225#, but on a cross bike where your #1 goal is reliability it sounds right. If your #1 goal becomes speed after putting in 1000's of miles and you get a light weight cf roadie you may come to a different decision

    Quote Originally Posted by fatandfast
    2. hub/bearing quality? i'm a fisherman with a taste for expensive reels (we're called 'tackle hos') so I understand the difference in price and performance of quality bearings vs crap bearings. are the bearings in dura ace hubs significantly better than those in ultegra hubs?
    I wouldn't say there is a significant difference between even 105 bearings and D/A. Again, if you are moving to light weight, road racing equipment they can be part of the package. I had Deore bearings on my Cross/commuter and I put 15,000 miles on them in all conditions and when they were repacked there was no noticable wear. If you want and appriciate the quality of D/A thats great, but the lower levels are perfectly functional.

    Quote Originally Posted by fatandfast
    3. tires: i'm currently riding the size 32 tires that came with the bike. I want to run something narrower with a less knobby tread pattern. I'm thinking 28. Is this too thin for my weight, or is it ok? Are there any suggestions on good slicks in this width?
    Depends on your use and surfaces you ride on. If you still have the original knobbies that implies less than say 2k miles. Tires become a pretty rapid wear item so you can try different options a lot. Because I ride on relitavtively nice roads I rapidly went from 32 to 28 to 25 and now 23's. A given rim is rated for a range of tire widths so you don't want to exceed that, but your weight would have no problems with even 23's. So base your decision on the type of riding and comfort vs. rolling resistance trade offs.

    Quote Originally Posted by fatandfast
    4. wheel builder? i'm looking for a good wheel builder in the los angeles area. i bought my bike used, so i don't really have much of an established relation with any of the shops in the area.
    Ask around at the local shops/ bike clubs or the regional forum here. Realize that for the cost of custom rims you can buy off the shelf that will also easily hold up to your size.

    Just for comparison; I am 6'3" 235#+ and on my C/F Fuji I run Campy Zonda rims (I think 16/21 spoke) which currently have Michelin Pro RaceII 700x23 tires. I paid about $350 and with about 3000 miles on the rims they are still perfectly true, very fast, excellent high quality rims.

  14. #14
    your nightmare gal chipcom's Avatar
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    6'1" 230lbs

    Wheelset: Velocity Fusion, 32/36 on my xcross/commuter, 32/32 on my road bike.
    Bearings: If they ain't broke, don't fix em.
    Tires: 700x28 (sometimes 32s) Conti Contacts on my xcross/commuter, 700x25 Conti Ultragatorskins on my road bike.
    Wheel Builder - +1 on Mike Garcia
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

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    THANK YOU for all your input! I ordered some new wheels. Similar to my original plan yet also different.

    I found a screaming deal on a new pair of Cane Creek Volos XL road wheels. These are supposed to be Cane Creek's road wheel for clydes. The have a deep v style rim (not as deep as Velocity's....2 mm shorter...but otherwise very similar), and straight pull spokes which apparently are tensioned much higher. The rear wheel is also asymetrical which I've been told helps it stay in true longer by having even spoke tension despite the dish of the wheel.

    They are cheaper and lighter than hand built Deep Vs and I have a friend with a similar set on his track bike (Volos Track) and he says the workmanship is excellent. The only concern I had is with the low spoke count (24/28), but I emailed Cane Creek and they say because of the higher tension of the spokes the wheels should be able to handle my weight no problem.

    I hope these wheels works out. I'll post a review after I've ridden them for a few months.

    The only question now is tires. I figured I'd get a pair of cheap-o 700x28s and ride them around while I get an idea of what I want in a road tire (was riding cyclocross tires before)


  16. #16
    Senior Member jaxgtr's Avatar
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    I wish I had known you were looking for some 28's, I just sold some on Ebay. Look at the Michelin Krylion Carbons, they are suppose to be very good and last a long time. I just put on a set of 23's and really like them so far. I weigh in at 295 now, so if they can hold my butt up, your 225 should have no issues. Normally $40 to $50 a tire, got both for $48.00. I hate giving my money to the French, but the Michelins are good tires. They will work good on your new wheels.

    Edited to add: If your always on the road, these will work good, if your using the XO1 on dirt, please ignore.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/2-Michelin-Kryli...QQcmdZViewItem
    Last edited by jaxgtr; 04-18-07 at 06:52 PM.
    Brian | 2013 Cannondale SuperSix 5 | 2014 Trek CrossRip Comp | 2003 Trek 7300
    Quote Originally Posted by AEO View Post
    you should learn to embrace change, and mock it's failings every step of the way.

  17. #17
    Senior Member jaxgtr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatandfast
    when i started riding i was 275lbs in dec, i'm now down to 225lbs.
    Please allow me to stand and clap as this is awesome. Do tell how one lose 50 lbs in 4 months.
    Brian | 2013 Cannondale SuperSix 5 | 2014 Trek CrossRip Comp | 2003 Trek 7300
    Quote Originally Posted by AEO View Post
    you should learn to embrace change, and mock it's failings every step of the way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaxgtr
    Please allow me to stand and clap as this is awesome. Do tell how one lose 50 lbs in 4 months.
    The simple answer is eat less and do more. The more complicated answer is below:

    I think I was able to lose the weight so quickly because it was weight that I had gained quickly in the first place. I think it was only my outrageously bad diet that was allowing me to keep it on at all.

    When I first got an office job about 2 years ago, I was weighing in at about 225 at 5'8"...so I was already fat. At the same time, I'd been pretty stable at that weight for a while. When I started working in a cubicle, eating out daily, and being sedentary all the time... I gained weight very quickly. All my friends were scared because I went from lovably fat to worringly fat in such a short period of time. I decided to weigh myself, and was blown away when the scale read 275! So I decided to go on a diet for the first time in my life.

    At first I did a very high protein, low fat, low carb diet. I was eating between 1000-1500 calories, most from protein, and then fat, then carbs. I also began lifting weights at least 3 times a week. I actually gained a little weight at first, from adding muscle, and then the weight started shedding off very fast.

    Then a friend of mine invited me to a late night drunken group ride, and I realized that I wanted a bike.

    When I got the bike, I had real problems riding for distance. But after I got everything dialed in, and my ass was broken in, I was able to go on longer and longer rides. I did notice issues with not having enough energy at times, so I began to increase my carb intake. This was in the form of vegetables. I will still only eat starchy carbs (rice, pasta, cereal, bread, potatos) if it is in anticipation of a long ride (20+ miles). If I don't have concrete plans to burn it off, I try to avoid bad carbs. I'm eating more balanced though, with a larger number of vegetables (its basically salad + lean meats at this point). I still avoid anything with lots of sugar, including fruit. Vitamins and stuff I get from supplements and non sweet vegetables.

    I love cycling so far...the only problem being that I find myself not doing as much weight lifting as most of my exercise time is spent riding (because its so much more fun).

    Now that I'm back at the weight I was before I started working at my current job, I've kind of leveled off. I ride a lot now, even commuting to work if the weather permits (in southern california this means not too hot....showing up at work covered in sweat is a no no). I've been told it can take a while to break through plateaus while dieting, so I'm hoping diligence will pay off. Otherwise I might have to go back to high protein/low calorie/weight lifting insanity again. I want to beleive that moderation, a balanced diet and cardio should be enough...but in my (limited) experience starvation, high protein, and strength training has actually had better results for me.

    There were some things that I was doing that may be of use to others. I don't know in any scientific sense if this stuff was helpful or not, of if simple calories in < calories out is all there is to it. Its just what I did, and why I did it. Doesn't mean it's right, or even healthy.

    Eat breakfast.

    Eat slowly. Chew.

    Don't eat before going to bed.

    Avoid sugar. Completely. After a while, a small sip of soda will taste as sweet as honey does to you now.

    Avoid flour/potato/rice/pasta/cereal/fruit. It all turns into sugar.

    Avoid beer/wine. Especially beer. If you're gonna drink, drink hard liquor so you don't have to intake as many calories for the same amount of drunkedness.

    Drink lots of fluid, preferably with caffeine. At the times I was losing weight the fastest, I was drinking lots of green tea. I think the caffeine keeps your metabolism up through out the day.

    I also began taking supplements. Don't know what affect any may have on weight loss. Daily Multi + Calcium Citrate + Fish Oil + Psyllium Husks (Fiber) + Chromium Picolinate + Vitamin C

    Chicken. When that gets boring, fish. If you don't mind it, Tofu. Beef, lamb and pork are tasty, but a lot more calories because of the fat content.

    EL POLLO LOCO. 2 Legs + a "Loco Salad" = $3 lunch that is good for you and will hold you over. Get 3 legs if you are really hungry.

    If you want to go out for nice food, go to a sushi place and get sashimi or yellowtail collar. This way you can still go out with friends, but have a non starchy/high protein option. Otherwise get the salad with the dressing on the side.

    Lettuce, celery, cucumber, brocolli, bell peppers. You can eat tons of this stuff without taking in to many calories.

    OF COURSE THIS PROBABLY WON'T WORK IF YOU DON'T EXERCISE.

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